Erm what are you guys arguing about again?

Sometimes we get too absorbed in defending our own views, that we fail to truly understand what the other party is trying to convey.

Pls be careful with what you say to each other. I'm pretty sure Christians are not the only ones reading this thread.

Cheers.

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We are arguing about why we have such Christians, .......

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2020...out-despite-mco -
Own goal part two: 24 Catholic seminarians punished for kickabout despite MCO - Thursday, 02 Apr 2020
GEORGE TOWN: Twenty four seminarians, including a priest, pleaded guilty at George Town Magistrate Court to flouting the movement control order (MCO).
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I didn't say raise new law, I said raise the law. You put in the word new. That's you putting your word into my mouth.

I had change to ask you whether Jesus did say that because you didn't want to answer me.

you're the one who keep evading.

So are you going to answer or not? Why you don't gouge out your eyes or chop off you hands if those cause you to stumble.
NOT unless you're telling me our Lord Jesus didn't say those things. That is submitting to the law isn't it?
OR are you rejecting this (as you accused me of rejecting God's Law)


Which is it now?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 2 2020, 08:01 PM

In response to Desmond what was said on " that your eyes or hands dont make you sin. It is lust within us unless there are special one among us who use his eye to think", <--But you are using your eyes to see. No?
Jesus said in Matthew 5:28-29

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

That is changing what scripture says. Jesus said if anyone "LOOK" at a woman lustfully then in the next verse specifically says to remove it if it causes you to stumble.

I think that's just arguing for the sake of arguing.

===========================

Also in response to what was quoted on Genesis 26:1‭-‬5

Abraham was not under the dispensation of the Law.

Understand that when you're under the period of the dispensation of the Law, you'd be judged by the Law.

Abraham lied twice on Sarah, just to protect his own life and cause Sarah to go through uncomfotable situation. Yet God protected & Defended Him.

There was no judgement on him.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 2 2020, 08:21 PM

I put this here again

Now there was a famine in the land, besides the former famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went to Gerar to Abimelech king of the Philistines. And the Lord appeared to him and said, "Do not go down to Egypt; dwell in the land of which I shall tell you. Sojourn in this land, and I will be with you and will bless you, for to you and to your offspring I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath that I swore to Abraham your father. I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."
Genesis 26:1‭-‬5 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/gen.26.1-5.ESV

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MARK.7: = Defilement Comes from Within

7 Then the Pharisees and some of the scribes came together to Him, having come from Jerusalem. 2 Now when they saw some of His disciples eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. 3 For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands in a special way, holding the tradition of the elders. 4 When they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other things which they have received and hold, like the washing of cups, pitchers, copper vessels, and couches.

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?”

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—[d]the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”

9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

14 When He had called all the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear Me, everyone, and understand: 15 There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. 16 If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!”

17 When He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. 18 So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?” 20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”
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No, I think you are quite wrong about the original source and path of fallen Man's evil or wickedness or sins/law-breaking from the devil, which is spiritual or unseen.
....... Like they say, knives and guns do not kill by themselves, certain people who use them do. Similarly for our eyes and hands which can be used for good or evil depending on the owners' heart - are they for God/Jesus or for the devil/mammon.?
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This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Apr 2 2020, 08:39 PM

Mark 7 talks about defilement and has to do with clean and unclean food.

Anyway I would agree with you, defilement come from within yes but your hands and eyes are the instruments. It is Jesus's own word. For the hundreth time, are you saying Jesus DID NOT say those words?


you are still evading until now trying to avoid answering.

A simple YES or NO?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 2 2020, 08:43 PM

In respond to Post 945

Here it is again



Also in response to what was quoted on Genesis 26:1‭-‬5

Abraham was not under the dispensation of the Law.

Understand that when you're under the period of the dispensation of the Law, you'd be judged by the Law.

Abraham lied twice on Sarah, just to protect his own life and cause Sarah to go through uncomfotable situation. Yet God protected & Defended Him.

There was no judgement on him.

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You fail to see that the root problem in fallen Man mentioned by MATT.5:27-30 is the heart, not the eyes and hands, as per MARK.7:21-23.

Since the Fall and Adam's Original Sin, there has been a grave spiritual problem with fallen Man's heart, eg GEN.6:5 = God regretted He created evil and wickedly-hearted Man and wanted to destroy all of them with a Great Flood but Noah found grace in the eyes of God.

It is this fallen condition of Man's heart that will be sending them to hell, not Man's eyes and hands = they are in need of a Saviour/Messiah/Christ to save them from hell and to transform their hearts of stone into live-in-Christ hearts = Christians who will do good works of the Law from within their new born-again of the Spirit hearts. It is not their eyes and hands that will be born-again of the Spirit(HEB.8:10 & 10:15 = God implants His laws in their hearts and minds, not in their eyes and hands).
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This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Apr 2 2020, 09:06 PM

So you're saying what Jesus said in Matthew 5:27-30 is wrong? He was wrong to say gorge out your eyes and cut off your hands?

Just give it a rest. Think about it..if your way of asking Catholics to repent would have work, it would have work a long time ago.

People are turned off by hostility. You'd think people want to listen to anything you have to say when you're being hostile, when you saja want cari pasal?

If you don't know better people minds are shut off no matter what you have to say. That is a fact whether you like it or not.

If you think you know the BIble that well, then at least practise and believe that

Proverbs 25:15 (NIV) - Through patience a ruler can be persuaded, and a gentle tongue can break a bone.
Proverbs 15:1 (NIV) - A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

Look at your own language that you use...poppycocks lah, " OK you win in your own drivel:, "smack your own head"

I did not say he can come in to promote Catholic doctrine, he knows Catholicism will not be accepted anyway.

Not here.

What I want is everyone not to mudsling at each other.

Why do you think I'm being so hard headed here?

Because I'm equally upset you're throwing wrongful accusations at me.

You'd think just because I believe in Grace being the Gospel..Oh that means UW is asking Christians to sin away. Etc etc something along that line.

You know what is your biggest problem? All your wrongful throughts highlight in bold really irritate me. To the Max.

Despite so many time Ive repeated myself, I'm very much for the victorious life in Christ. Very much for the believer to be close to God regardless of circumstance.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 2 2020, 11:30 PM

Thank you, you are mature in Christ.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 2 2020, 11:13 PM

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Your interpretation of Jesus Christ saying, "You shall gouge out your eyes and chop off your hands." at MATT.5:27-30 as a law, is not found in God's Law in the Old Testament. So, it is a "new law" which you falsely claimed that Jesus Christ has raised to replace or destroy the old law of "You shall not commit adultery." = earlier you challenged me to keep this "new law" by gouging out my eyes and chopping off my hands to prove that I can keep the Law since I had questioned your previous statement that "nobody can actually keep the Law." as not in accordance with the Scripture at MATT.19:16-22 and ROMANS.2:14 which showed that even Jews and Greeks/Gentiles could keep the Law by not committing intentional or willful sins/law-breaking/evil-deeds.

In fact, Jesus Christ Himself stated that the law, "You shall not commit adultery.", was an old law or a law which applied to those of old; and He did not classify His Word about plucking out your eyes and cutting off your hands as a law. Only you have falsely claimed that Jesus Christ raised the law of gouging out your eyes and chopping off your hands. If as you falsely claimed, to me that is a "new law" vs the old law, similar to NT vs OT. .......

MATT.5:27-30 = Adultery in the Heart

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Good day.
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This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Apr 3 2020, 12:22 AM

I never say the word New and I never say anything about replacing or destroying the old Law, you're the one who putting this word into my mouth.

So if verse 27 mention it is of Old, Then what was mention in verse 28 is then refering to the same Law but Jesus raised it higher. It is a Law then!

It is not a false claim, it's there in verse 28, you cannot see it? (There is a better question to ask on this really..why Did Jesus mention verse 28?)

You'd think it's for fun? There is a reason and there is a purpose.

What I'm seeing above is STILL an acrobatic attempt to swerve away of what Jesus is saying.

So why aren't you submitting to this then?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 3 2020, 01:04 AM

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Like I told you before, as per EXODUS.20, that was not how the Lord/God Jesus Christ issued His laws/commandments, ie your "higher law" of gouging out your eyes and chopping off your hands at MATT.5:27-30. Again I ask you, did any of the apostles mention this "higher law" of yours in their letters/epistles.? Cf: .......

1COR.6: = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

GAL.5: = 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Only you have falsely claimed that Jesus Christ has raised a "higher law" of gouging out your eyes and chopping off your hands over the "lower law" of 'You shall not commit adultery'. None of the apostles have made such a false claim, ie they still preserved the Old Testament law against unrepentant adulterers as those not inheriting the kingdom of God. Jesus Christ Himself confirmed the same at REV.22:15.
....... Those Christians who unrepentantly broke the Law by intentionally or willfully committing adultery will not be saved from hell, not those who broke your "higher law" by intentionally or willfully refusing to gouge out their eyes and chop off their hands. Your false claim about Jesus Christ raising a "higher law" of gouging out your eyes and chopping off your hands, just to win an argument over your previous/old false statement that 'nobody can actually keep the Law' may mislead others.

The purpose of Jesus Christ was definitely not to raise a "higher law" of gouging out your eyes and chopping off your hands over the "lower law" of 'You shall not commit adultery'. Didn't He say at MATT.5:17 that He did not come to destroy the Law.? Raising a "higher law" over the previous or old "lower law" was in effect destroying the Law, as given by Him/God in the Old Testament.

Like I told you before, the purpose was for Him to tell the Jews and Pharisees that with His 1st Coming to earth, they could no longer rely on the Law to save them from hell, eg could no longer rely on "You shall not commit adultery" because they had a deeper problem with their heart, not just with their eyes and hands, in the breaking of the Law by committing adultery - MARK.7:21-23.
....... Only Jesus Christ could solve this deeper problem by giving them a new born-again heart of the Spirit(not of Adam) and actually saving them from hell by them having faith in Him(and not in the Law).

Our differences in understanding the Bible are minor, mostly just personal differences in trying to score "more goals" than the other. To me, the more important thing is God/Jesus-Christ, through His Word, scoring more goals, not me or you.
....... Also, it's just that I think I may have a "higher understanding" than you.

Good day.
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This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Apr 3 2020, 09:47 AM

Raising the law to a higher standard does not mean destroying the old Law, it is enforcing the law to a higher degree.

The apostles did not mention this in their epistles but they sure recorded Jesus saying of this in Matthew 5:28-30 as part of the synoptic gospel.

They did not deny this, but I see from the above you're trying very hard to deny this.

I'm not falsely claiming anything, it's there in the book of Matthew. Since it's refering to the OT Law then by the reason of it..it is Law.

There is a purpose why Christ raise the Bar higher. It's purpose to bring Man to the end of himself into thinking...I cannot do this, Save me Lord.

Same thing that happened to the Young Rich Ruler, He was given the Law by Christ,

Remember he said..ALL THESE I've Kept from youth. (Matthew 19:20) Then Jesus told him to Sell all he had and give to the poor..Was Christ raising the Bar higher?

Yes He did. The sad thing is...the young rich ruler went away. He could have relent and cry out to the Lord to save him but he didn't.

Man until today think they can keep the Laws of God..it has been 2000 years and we are still stubborn.


It's the same thing. Noticed that Christ only give the Law to people who hanker after the Law, people like the pharisee, the young rich ruler but to the people like the prostitudes the tax collector..like Zaccheus, Christ only gives Grace.

You'll never see Christ giving the law to the blind, the lame or the prostitute..ie "if you want me to heal you, repent first, make restitution then only I will heal you" Christ never does. He give his GRACE 1st always then only tells us to go sin no more.

The church has it backward, they'll tell you to repent first then only you get grace. If only we can see this truth.

I think bottomline is, you have problem understanding what I share on leaving our focus from the Law to focusing on Christ. It's not about you know better or I know better.

Good day to you too.

It has come to my attention that it was claimed that Roman Catholics pray to statues, worhsip idols, pray to the saints etc etc.

I am a born again Roman Catholic and I definately never did that nor am I even practicing that today after being born again.

The primary reason that statues are found in Catholic Churches or images etc etc, is basically to remind us of our Father our God who is in heaven, to remind of our brethren the saints whom have gone ahead of us and are now in heaven. To remind us of our journey in life until we reach our destination ie the kingdom of heaven. It is not much different of having a picture of my mother-in-law in my wallet who is in heaven now.

Without a doubt some Roman Catholics may have gone over board with their adoration with the statues. If I was a Catholic priest, you can rest assure such adoration will not be allowed simply because it simply damages beautiful handwork of sculpters of an bygone era. Even the quality of present day restoration works is really depressing.

My prays are reserved only to the Holy Trinity. Period.

As for everyone else in the kingdom of heaven, I ask them to intercede for us, not pray. Why ? That is because our God is God of the living. Since our brethren are already in the presence of our Almighty God, definately their intercession will be far more effective not to mention efficient, than someone like me still stuck here on this planet trying to dial into heaven's hotline.

Just thought I'd share my personal views and practices of my faith in our God.

Cheers and God bless.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Apr 3 2020, 11:47 AM

Wow.! ... Seems you are even denying the Scripture I have quoted to you, 1COR.6:9-11, GAL.5:19-21 and REV.22:15, where both the apostle Paul and Jesus Christ stated that only those Christians who unrepentantly broke the Law by intentionally or willfully committing adultery will not inherit the kingdom of God, not those Christians who unrepentantly broke your "higher law" by intentionally or willfully refusing to gouge out their eyes and chop off their limbs.

Again, you are making a false claim that Jesus Christ has raised a higher law commanding Christians to sell all they had, give to the poor and follow Him(spiritually).

Like I said before, with the 1st Coming of Jesus Christ to earth, the keeping of the Law could no longer save the rich young Jewish ruler from hell, ie only faith in Jesus Christ could save him from hell; and for him to be saved from hell at that special time, required him to abandon all and follow Jesus Christ(physically).

Jesus Christ did not raise the bar higher or a higher law when He called Andrew, Simon Peter, James and John to follow Him. .......

MATT.4: Four Fishermen Called as Disciples

18 And Jesus, walking by the Sea of Galilee, saw two brothers, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen. 19 Then He said to them, “Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men.” 20 They immediately left their nets and followed Him.

21 Going on from there, He saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets. He called them, 22 and immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed Him.

FYI, according to the Word of God or Scripture, even Gentiles could keep the Law by their conscience, albeit unknowingly, and Jews and Jewish Christians could definitely keep the Law, .......

ROMANS.2: = 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

ACTS.21: = 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.

25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
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JOHN.14: = Jesus Promises Another Helper

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.


MATT.4:17 = 17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Seems you are confusing sins/law-breaking wrt the unconverted/unbelievers and Christian believers.

Like I said before, even a repentant murderer and/or adulterer can be saved from hell by faith in Jesus Christ = as a new repentant and grateful Christian believer he/she should go and murder or adultery no more. But he/she(= the ex-murderer and/or ex-adulterer) will not be saved from hell if he/she unrepentantly breaks the Law by going and murder or adultery some more and more. This applies similarly to other Christian believers, eg those who unrepentantly commit sexual immorality. God/Jesus-Christ will not let His Word go forth in vain and will make certain of it, as per REV.22:12-17, 1COR.6:9-11, GAL.5:19-21, HEB.10:26-31 & 6:1-8.

Good day.
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I wasn't talking about forfeting the Kingdom of God (Ie if you don't chop your hands, you won't get in). I'm talking about..why are you not submitting to obey to follow what was asked of Jesus....Do you understand the difference?


I didn't make a false claim, the Rich Young Ruler did ask Christ what else must he do to inherit the Kingdom of God, Jesus told him to sell all that He had then follow Him.

Of course not. Try to study this. Try to notice ..To whom did Jesus gave the law? He never gives it to the downtrodden, the outcast. He only gives it to people who wanted to be justified by the Law

Sure you can try to keep it but you cannot keep them perfectly. You break one is as good as breaking all of them. <--This is what I mean: Nobody can keep the Law. The Bible has specifically say this: If you want to keep the Law, you need to go all the way by it. There's no try. If you fail, you'll be judged by it. And you cannot mix meaning you cannot say I want to keep the Law and I also want Grace if I fail, there's no such thing.

Galatians 3:10 (NIV) - For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

Romans 11:6 (NIV) - And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 4:4-5 (NIV)Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

The New Covenant is not about keeping the Law but Keeping your Faith in Christ as the way to Salvation.


Understand that under the new Covenant, whenever it is mentioned..keep my commands,

It's usually refering to the commandment of believe in Christ, to love one another


John 15:12 (NIV) - My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
1 John 3:23 (NIV) - And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and we should love one another just as He commanded us.

Of course the virtue of love binds all the OT laws together but as I've said the focus now is on Christ, no more the Law...we need to keep our eyes on Jesus. Study how Jesus treats sinners. He is very kind to them.

You'd think it's really your repentance that matters, I say it's how you get connected to God for power to sin no more that matters.

You focus a lot on self really. YOU MUST repent..YOU YOU YOU. The devil has successfully divert the eyes of believers to be self occupied..where Ive fallen short, where I need to repent. Granted nothing wrong in those but it's dificient.
I'm pointing believers to the Grace of Christ to be free from Sin.

Romans 6:14 (NIV) - For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

John 1:17 (NIV) - For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 3 2020, 01:36 PM

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1JOHN.3: (NKJV) = 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
You missed out the redded part "as He gave us commandment" which referred to His Law that He had given. .......

MATT.5: = Christ Fulfills the Law

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

MATT.22:37-40 = 37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

"Love one another" for Christians is the same as "Love your neighbor as yourself" for Jews. Why did Jesus Christ/God make the difference.? = because the Jews had been commanded by God in the OT to not live next to Gentiles as their neighbors, except for refugees/strangers; whereas God foreknew that Gentile Christians would be living next to unbelievers as their neighbors who could be their very enemies. Who are your neighbors presently, all Christians, any unbeliever-enemy.? There are certain neighbors from hell.

So, JOHN.14:15 's commandments referred to the Law, as He gave us commandment because Jesus Christ had stated at MATT.5:17 that He did not come to destroy the Law = no new laws and no higher laws from Him in the NT, except the commandment to believe in Him for salvation from hell(= no longer believe in the keeping of the Law for salvation) and for Christian believers to love one another(= no longer specifically to love their neighbours)

For false Hypergrace and Antinominian believers, isn't it ironic that Scripture gave the commandment/law to Christians to believe on the name of Jesus Christ and to love one another, as per 1JOHN.3:23, ie a commandment/law to have faith.? Wonder why.? Because some may lose faith by rejecting some of His laws/commandments.?

Good day.
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This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Apr 3 2020, 03:00 PM