I do not agree to Catholic adoration of Mary or the saints be it of statue or whatever.

The reason why I deleted your post is because you just want to cari pasal. Where is your peace?

We all know what the catholics believes. You can repeat it a thousand times, they will not move..you know why?

you're trying to force your way through just like what you're trying to do with me.

The works of the Holy Spirit is the work of God, one that speaks to the soul but by God, not you.

You are fist fighting, nothing more than that.

And I keep posting Acts 7:46

45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;
46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.

Do know what is favour or charis

5485. charis ►
Strong's Concordance
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Definition: grace, kindness
Usage: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, © gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.

Since you mentioned clearly David lived under the Law, Acts 7:46 refutes YOU!



ADam to Moses , NOTHING TO SAY? Cat got your doctrinal tongue?


Do you even read what i posted?

The Israelites were JUDGED and KILLED for worshipping the molten calf BEFORE the Law was given! How many times do i need to post the passage?

Talk about selective reading!

Here

27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

Since you said Christians are not under the custody of the Law to be justified,

are you saying that Israel including David are JUSTIFIED by the LAW?

You mean asking the idolator to repent and turn away from their idols is cari pasal?
If that be so, then I cari pasal.

I guess when the 3,000 Israelites got killed for worshipping the molten calf is cari pasal too.

So Yeeck can come into your evangelical space to promote his Roman doctrines is deemed acceptable while I by challenging your hyer grace norms is fist fighting?

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Your question is more appropriate and effective for unconverted Jews and Gentiles like aral3005 and the Pharisees of 30 AD. Your question has no effect on me, a long time Christian, who knew about justification by faith alone and not by the works of the Law many many years ago.
....... Like I told you a few times, going round and round, my answer is found in my link above and in the early pages of this thread.

The more important thing is your erroneous belief that Jesus Christ raised new laws at MATT.5:17-48, when He did no such thing, eg "You shall gouge out your eyes and chop off your hands"; and that nobody can actually keep the Law.

At MAAT.5:17-48, Jesus Christ was only challenging the Jews' and Pharisees' false assurance that they were still going to be saved from hell by just keeping the Law, eg did not commit murder, adultery, blasphemy, etc. This was because the Old Covenant of the Law was going to be replaced by the New Covenant of Faith by the impending death of Jesus Christ on the Cross, wrt salvation from hell. See also LUKE.16:19-31, MATT.17:3 & 27:53, 1PETER.3:19 & 4:6. .......
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4886095 - post #18 - What is the difference between the beliefs of Jews vs Christians wrt salvation from hell.? Issue #19

Good day.
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This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Apr 2 2020, 03:26 PM

So folks, let be clear that your eyes or hands dont make you sin. It is lust within us unless there are special one among us who use his eye to think

The biggest threat to one's religion is the people in the religion itself.

Faith, religion, spirituality, whatever you call it.

People ask me what's my religion, what branch. It's easy for me to say Christianity, hard for me to group myself into a specific category.

I believe in the holy spirit, I believe in 3 in 1, I believe in Jesus as God, and son of God, and I believe the Bible.

Whatever sect one is fighting for, you may just pray that the other person see the truth. More often that not, it's God who moves one's heart.

I have seen very kind and nice Catholic, and I have NO right to correct them.

PS Been reading Ruth - as it's only 4 chapters and rather easy to understand. Thinking how amazing the lineage of Jesus, from Judah, descendants of Leah the outcast, and descendants of David, whose great-grandmother was not even a Jewish but a Boaz.

Now back to the book of Judges.

You can watch the movie 'the Case for Christ'.

Very good movie.

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Up till the ministry of Christ in 30AD, the Jews and Pharisees believed they were going to be saved from hell by keeping the Law, which was true, as I explained in my above post and link.

One of the extra point of MATT.5:27-30 was that if the Jews and Pharisees had no eyes and no limbs, they would not be able to immorally sexually lust at another man's wife or sister or daughter or grand-daughter and go on to commit adultery with the woman even if the men wanted to.

IMO,
If they had accepted this challenge = gouge out their eyes and chop off their limbs, Jesus Christ would truly have granted them salvation from hell since they actually believed in Him and His Word. But all of them declined the challenge for the Bible recorded no such persons gouging out their eyes and chopping off their limbs.
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Ruth is a lovely book.

The central thought is that a Gentile, even a Moabitess, could be joined to God’s holy elect and become an heir to partake of the holy inheritance through her union with the one of the holy elect who redeemed her.

This is not merely a type but a complete prefigure of the Gentile sinners' being brought, with Israel, God’s elect, into the divine inheritance through the redemption of Christ (prefigured by Boaz) in their union with Him. XD

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 2 2020, 03:56 PM

The truth reveal by god since adam to Abraham to mose till now is the same,

Without faith it is impossible to please Him

Abraham is known as father of faith and not father of work

So God never change as some would suggest

Since genesis, faith is what god require from us.

Hebrew idioms or exaggerated figures of speech which Jesus used

1) If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life - he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

2) If your right eyes causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. (Matt. 5:29)

3) It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest seen you plant in the ground. (Mark 4:31)

Hebrews 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Erm King David lived under the dispensation of the Law, that is without a doubt. Because there was judgement meted out on his 1st born son. That is evidence enough. God gave favour to King David because he has a heart for God (ie in his wanting to build a tabernacle house for God) and futhermore God made a promise with Him, a covenant on the Throne of David, through his line Jesus would come. Do you understand this enough as to why the favour? Adoi...


Adam to Moses ..I have nothing to say because the lesson was in the congregration of Israel. That was the start of God rescueing his people, a congregration..a type of Church if you will....the start of God displaying "pure" grace. As for Adam to Moses.... there was dispensation of grace but still my points to the fact there was no judgment when israel travel to Sinai despite of them sinning. Because God is a Holy God, he should have given judgement but it didn't happen.

I'm sorry but I disagree. If you want to nitpick on timeline then I can point to you; God began at Exodus 19:5. But for me, officially the point of the Law given to Moses was the starting point. Plus even before that before the Law was given to Moses, there was already a start of distance at foot of mount Sinai.


True, the 10 commandments wasn't read to the Israelites below at the foot mountain but Israel made the statement..they will do whatever God commands (exodus 19:8) That bodes a problem. They made an emphatic confident.... they could do whatever God commands...and YET God has not even reveal the Big 10, what are those commandments? They have not heard and yet they were confident they will do it.

This is a kind of boasting, if you can see it. That was the start of their fall.

I believe the Golden Calf happens because they sense there already distance between them and God...the dark clouds, the thunder and the death that was proclaimed if they even touch the foot of the mountain..in a sense They were afraid. But the Fact remain that they agreed to whatever God will command them. (Exodus 19:5)

As for your last question. Yes they were under the dispensation of the Law.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 2 2020, 04:37 PM

So now you'll agree with me that you look to be justified by your Faith in Christ and not by the works of the law when I challenge you this?

It is not about new Law, It was what Jesus said. That is something you shy away because you know you can't do it...but take heart, I'm not forcing you, like you, myself included no one can.

Notice that Jesus NEVER dispense the Law to the prostitutes, the tax collectors or down trodden. To them He gives only Grace.

He only gives the Law to people like the pharisees and people who asked to be justifed by the Law..ie the Rich young rule.

Ask yourself why.

It's not an erronous belief, I didn't say anything about new law, I just said...DID JESUS say those things? Answer would be Yes. My next question to you is, why are you not obeying it? This has nothing to do with new or raise up the law higher.

Again it's matter ...it's part of the sermon of the beatitudes. To the people who are following Him.

Maybe you do not read so well

Dispensation of Law is your imaginary guide, and therefore you have to smack your own head because charis as mentioned in Acts 7:46 does not jive with your doctrine. All those that you put forth are knowns. And because God's charis was on David, he was chosen as such. Not because David had a heart for God, therefore he was chosen. What you described is works. Haha! You are indeed a chameleon.

There was no judgement on Israel inspite of 3,000 were JUDGED and KILLED for worshipping the molten calf. OK you win in your own drivel.

So essentially you are saying David and the rest of the patriachs are under the Law and therefore justified by such. Poppy cocks!

Says your favourite apostle Paul



Is this not grace?



NO ONE is justfied by the Law




Heb 11



And therefore

There is one dispensation of grace throughout the ages, from Adam to present day.

God does not change.

Erm I said the Journey of the Israelites from Egypt to Mount Sinai, there was no judgement. Talk about reading problem. Of course after the Law was given, 3000 died. Even in 2 Corinthians 3:7, it says there the 10 commandments = Ministry of Death.


David enjoyed God's fav our under the dispensation of God's Law in the Old Testament. It's not about works but as Ive said David had a heart for God He wanted to build a tabernacle house not because of works but because he had a heart for God..I repeat He had the heart for God..God even called David a Man after my own heart, plus of the promise from his throne , Jesus would come.

From Moses until before Christ, Until John the baptist that is the time of the Law.


Luke 16:16 (KJV) - The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Sorry. The dispensation of the Law is from Moses until John the Baptist.


Edit Note: Abraham was before the Law.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 2 2020, 11:08 PM

Abraham is known as the Father of Faith and He lived before the Law was given. I don't see the relevance.

David was given hints of the revelation of Grace but he lived under the Law.

Sorry.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 2 2020, 05:13 PM

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Your earlier statements show that you falsely believe that Jesus Christ has raised new laws at MATT.5:21-48, eg "You shall gouge out your eyes and chop off your hands."

Only your last few statements "Did Jesus Christ say those things." tried to divert attention from your earlier statements.
....... It's like you trying to change the goal post when proven wrong by Scripture, in order for you to try to score a goal.

Good day.
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Let see

Now there was a famine in the land, besides the former famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went to Gerar to Abimelech king of the Philistines. And the Lord appeared to him and said, "Do not go down to Egypt; dwell in the land of which I shall tell you. Sojourn in this land, and I will be with you and will bless you, for to you and to your offspring I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath that I swore to Abraham your father. I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."
Genesis 26:1‭-‬5 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/gen.26.1-5.ESV

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"'''''' Up till the ministry of Christ in 30AD, the Jews and Pharisees believed they were going to be saved from hell by keeping the Law, which was true, as I explained in my above post and link. ''''''''

Believe is faith. If the Jews and Pharisees did not believe or have faith they were going to be saved from hell by keeping the Law, as promised by God, they would not have kept or done it, eg the rich Jewish man of LUKE.16:19-31 who was cursed by God with dying young and then ended up in Hades for intentionally or willfully breaking the Law at DEUT.15:11 repeatedly, ie by not doing charity to the poor like beggar Lazarus every Sabbath year.

Keeping the Law does not equate to no-faith. The Jews, Jesus Christ, apostles and early and latter Christians kept the Law. It is what you believe the Law will do for you, as promised by God, that is important. Will the keeping of the Law save you from hell or just get you earthly blessings from God(DEUT.28).? See also 1PETER.3:19 & 4:6.
....... Before the ministry of Christ, only Jews who kept the Law could be saved from hell because they believed or had faith in God for it to be so, eg beggar Lazarus, Moses, Elijah, etc = the Old Covenant of the Law. Abraham and Noah were under different personal covenants with God. Covenants is like a business contract between 2 parties.
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PS - Like I said before, Christians keep the Law from within (= by the power of the Holy Spirit of God dwelling in them) = in-Christ the Law is fulfilled; whereas Jews and others keep the Law from without(= compelled by law-enforcers). Problem is, certain Christians ignore and/or reject some of God's Law for various reasons = the Spirit could not work fully in them, eg those who believe in the false teachings of Hypergrace, Antinominianism, Prosperity Gospel, LGBTQism, etc.
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This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Apr 3 2020, 12:37 AM