We just have to accept the twofold was of the truth and its mysteries. There is no way to systematize the truth.

You have verses like these on God’s sovereignty:


“Lydia…whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul” (Acts 16:14).

“As many as were ordained to eternal life believed” (Acts 13:48).

“God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth” (2 Thess. 2:13).

“He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love” (Eph. 1:4).



And man’s responsibility and free will:

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed” (Acts 17:11, 12).

“Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life” (John 5:40).

“Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ…Save yourselves from this untoward generation” (Acts 2:38, 40).

“Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish” (Acts 13:40, 41).

But the best is this:

Acts 2:23: This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you [we are responsible], with the help of wicked men,[a] put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

Scripture affirms that God foreknows human actions as aspects of his plan; while these actions are certain as to their future occurrence, human beings are nonetheless ethically responsible for their personal actions.

We just have to be simple and amen His word.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 19 2019, 07:28 PM

Ic... If want simple, then justification by faith or by work? Paul's word appears to be serious in Gal 1, calling the 'another gospel' damnation. Paul's treatise on the Gospel in Romans is clearly siding by faith alone. James however, by work.

Can we be simple and amen to both views on soteriology?

This post has been edited by alexkos: Oct 19 2019, 07:46 PM

Yes we can . We can answer this in 2 ways:

First way

First, salvation is not merely regeneration. It encompasses our entire Christian life from regeneration to glorification.

According to the Scriptures, there are three aspects of justification. We can cover 2 for this post. The first aspect is before God, which we obtained when we believe. In other words, once we are saved, we are justified, or we may say that once we are justified, we are saved, since God’s salvation includes justification. A justified person is a saved person (Rom 3:24, Gal. 2:16; Rom. 3:20 etc).

Second aspect of justification, the Bible shows that the second aspect of justification is before men - after salvation. We obtain this gradually after we are saved.

1. “A man is justified by works” (James 2:24).

When we were saved, the justification we obtained before God was by faith and had nothing to do with works. But after we are saved, our justification before men is by works, not by faith. Faith caused us to be justified by God at the time of our salvation; works cause us to be justified by men after our salvation.

2. “Let your light shine before men, so that they may see your good works” (Matt. 5:16).
3. “We exercise foresight for what is honorable not only in the sight of the Lord but also in the sight of men” (2 Cor. 8:21).
We should exercise foresight for what is honorable in the sight of men in order to match our justified status. Otherwise, even though we may be justified before God, we will not appear to be justified before men.

4. “He who serves Christ in this is well pleasing to God and approved by men” (Rom. 14:18).

Second way

Not so recent Finnish scholarship on Luther's writing -> Christ is present in faith.

Justification by faith is not merely forensic but involving a union of the divine life. It is not something that we are convinced of in our mind; it is something that we receive when we are joined to the Lord as one spirit (1 Cor. 6:17). When the living Christ indwells us, His faith becomes our faith. We believe because He is faithful, and He cannot deny Himself in us (2 Tim. 2:13). In our organic union with Him, His faith becomes our faith, and our faith is His faith.

The Christ who is preached to us is infused into us through the word of the gospel. Rather it is the apprehended reality of what is preached; Faith comes from hearing the word of Christ, and this word is not simply about Christ but that which bears Christ into us. The ability to believe that is infused into us (work) is actually Christ as our faith.

This faith is the faith of Jesus Christ in us, which has become the faith by which we believe in Him, as in Rom 3:22, 26; Gal. 2:16, 20; 3:22; Eph. 3:12; and Phil. 3:9. This can only be understood in the union of Christ as faith. It is He who justifies but the abitily to believe out of free will is an operation of his Person as faith infused into us. And tis is faith is in us that God justifies us.

It is a mystery. The twofoldness can only be experienced in the mysterious union with Christ in the Spirit.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 19 2019, 10:17 PM

this pehkay not bad, long time no meet soundly expounded christian. let's cont to substantially level up the theology in this thread.

what's the biblical basis for woman as pastor-teacher? I'm referring to 1 Tim 2, 3, Titus 1 as basis. Can woman justify 1 Tim 2 injunction away with Gal 3 and Deborah as judge?

This post has been edited by alexkos: Oct 19 2019, 10:52 PM

Ah haha this is a prickly subject. Personally, I don't have burden to discuss secondary truths in that (sadly) stirs up believers to fight over secondary things ... which is pretty not profitable. So I will keep it short (not sure if I can) and direct us all to the central things.

Firstly, (I am a minority) the clergy-laity system is a degraded system that we inherited ever since. God's original intention was for all His people to be His priests. God had no intention of separating His people from His priests. He wanted the whole nation to be a kingdom of priests. God's people and God's priests should have been one. This is clearly seen in Numbers 11:29 where Moses exclaimed, "Oh that all Jehovah's people were prophets, that Jehovah would put His Spirit upon them!". This prophecy was promoted by Paul in 1 Corinthians and will be fulfilled in God's New Testament economy.

But because of Israel's failure, the functions went to the tribe of Levi only but this is not what God desires. But with the coming of the New Testament age, we find salvation and redemption reaching all men. Now we hear the word: "You yourselves also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house into a holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ" (1 Pet. 2:5).

In 1 Peter 2:4-7, we have become the living stones and are joined and built up to become a spiritual house. We also have become a holy priesthood to God. It is as if a voice from heaven burst forth announcing, "All who are saved are now God's priests. All the living stones, those who are part of the spiritual house, are now priests of God."

Right then a promise which had been set aside for fifteen hundred years was recovered by God. What the Israelites lost has been recovered by the church. The universal priesthood was lost to Israel. In the New Testament age, it is as if a voice from heaven bursts forth with the promise that the universal priesthood is with us once more. All the saved ones are called to be priests. We can all pray, sing, preach, shepherd, teach .... we all have a functions as members in the Body.

This at least covers on the matter of pastor thingy.

Regarding sisters ...

In the church meetings the sisters should be silent in giving teachings. First Corinthians 14:33b-35 says, "As in all the churches of the saints, let the women be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but let them be subject, as the law also says. But if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church." The phrase "in the churches" means in the meetings of the church. According to 11:5, women can prophesy (of course, in public) with their head covered, and Acts 2:17 and 18 and 21:9 confirm that there were women prophesying (speaking for God and forth God). But in 1 Timothy 2:12 women are not permitted to teach, that is, to teach as an authority (there teaching is related to the exercising of authority), defining doctrine. Hence, according to the New Testament principle, for women not to be permitted to speak in the church meetings means that women are not permitted to teach with authority concerning the defining of doctrine. In this sense they should be kept silent in the church meetings. They are not permitted to speak because they should be subject to man.

I would like to consider this subject from a much broader perspective (perhaps not addressing this matter directly). There are two systems of God in the universe.

A. The System of Grace

The church, our salvation, the brother-sister relationship in the Lord, and our being God's children—these are all items within the system of God's grace. Everything related to the church, the Holy Spirit, and redemption belongs to the system of grace. The centurion and the Syrophoenician woman both received grace from God. Peter received grace, and so did Mary. Lazarus could be resurrected, and Martha and Mary could serve. In the system of grace, man and woman are placed on equal footing. We are all sons of God in the divine life. We are all females as the Bride of Christ.

B. The System of Government

There is another system in the Bible which we call God's government. This system of government is altogether different from the system of grace. The system of God's government is separate from the system of grace; it is another system altogether. In this system, God operates according to His own pleasure. This is regards to creation of man first, woman second. The order is according to His government. Man's food before the flood is fruits and after the flood, meat. This is government as well. More can be said for many other things.

We see both aspects of God's work being present at the same time. The system of God's grace continued to operate in the world. At the same time, the system of His government also operated. The priests and the prophets belonged to the side of grace; they maintained the system of grace. The kings and the leaders of the Israelites belonged to the side of God's government; they maintained the system of God's government.

On the one hand, when the Lord Jesus was on earth, He was the Savior to deliver men from sin. This was His work under the system of grace. On the other hand, God's desire is for the Lord Jesus to establish His authority and heavenly kingdom through the work of the cross, with the result that heaven's reign will be brought to the earth.

The significance of head covering is that one puts himself under God's government; he acknowledges this position. He would never annul God's government just because he has received His grace. He would not even allow such a thought to come into him. He would, on the contrary, acknowledge God's government. Just as Christ accepted God as His Head, so also every man should accept Christ as his Head. In like manner, the woman should accept the man as her representative head. Head covering means that one covers his head as if he had no head.

(More can be said)
--------

Regarding Deborah, the people of Israel had never had a female leader. Then, suddenly, God raised up a female judge. Whenever God does something which stands out as being extraordinary, it is very significant. It indicates, first, man’s failure, and then, God’s excellent act. At the time of Judges 4, all the men of Israel had failed, so God raised up a woman. That raising up of a female changed the entire condition of Israel.

In God's governement, a proper female indicates one who is in submission to God, one who keeps God’s ordination. This is the position that Israel should have taken before God, but the situation in Israel had become fully abnormal. The men had left their position before Jehovah. Hence, Israel violated God’s ordination, leaving her position as God’s wife and forsaking Him for hundreds of idols. This brought Israel into a miserable situation and condition.

According to God’s creation, Deborah was a very capable person. By reading her song in chapter five, we can see that she was full of ability, capacity, insight, and foresight. But such an excellent person was very submissive. God made her the leader, yet she kept the proper order and took Barak as her covering (4:6-9).



She realized that she needed a man to be her covering. Actually, Barak did nearly nothing, yet Deborah took him as her "head covering." When she took this kind of standing, the whole nation became different. In their miserable situation no one would take the lead to fight for Jehovah’s interest, and no one would be willing to follow. But when this excellent, extraordinary woman took the lead to practice the female submission to the man, the entire country came into the proper order. Everyone returned to his or her proper position.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 20 2019, 09:36 AM

not bad. ppl these days already discarded head covering as a cultural stuff, but fails to see the significance behind it, i.e., the proper order God has instituted for man and woman in the life of the church.

what do you think?

since hearing from God is of utmost priority,
and pastor-teacher is directly related to how a clergyman listens to God (through the preaching of His Word) in every congregational setting,

how then can a congregation submit to a female pastor (you categorize it as 'secondary doctrine') with the exegetical pattern to favor Gal 3 (you quoted system A) over literal 1 Tim 2, Romans, Titus 1, 1 Cor 11,14 (system B)? What actually stops her from exegete other passages not as literal, e.g., literal Genesis account, literal Christ virgin birth and resurrection, and literal Christ ascension and promised return?

This post has been edited by alexkos: Oct 20 2019, 11:36 AM

Part 1 is just a great write up.
Faith demands Action/works. That is the Jewish way. Its not NATO. They walk the talk(Faith) in life.

Part 2 sounds dodgy in that it looks new age. Although Paul uses the union of Christ and the church as the great mystery, its not the infusion of Christ in us, but rather its the allusion of the union of a man and woman in marriage covenant as one or echad.
Its also the eschatological aspect of the ancient Jewish marriage procedure which is specially highlighted in Jesus and the church in the future.

Luther's Sola Fide is a pure human reaction to the heresies of the RCC, nothing scriptural.

That would also mean you are saying Luther is a heretic, right?

Heretic is extreme. Spur of the moment.

I would say RCC is more heretical than Luther.

LOL, whatever makes you happy, prophet.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 21 2019, 02:35 PM

Whatever is truthful.

And that is Truth. RCC's practices smacks of heretical practices forbidden by God to Israel.
Yet they teach their people such rebellious practices.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Oct 21 2019, 02:47 PM

My father-in-law suffered a 2nd stroke last Friday (couldn't walk) and by today he has recovered tremendously (started to walk again but slowly) because God always answers prayers. The doctor was surprised that nothing was done after the 1st stroke, which also showed up in today's CT Scan.

My BP Monitoring device was registering Irregular Heartbeat occasionally but my father-in-law simply refused to believe the BP monitoring device.

This time around he was willing to go to the hospital so that appropriate medication could be administered.

Praise be to God forever and ever. Amen.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 21 2019, 05:30 PM

It is much more than just that .... It expresses a profound principle. Again, wearing it out of habit or culture is as bad as well. There must be spiritual reality behind the outward practice.

For the sisters to cover their heads means that they take the position Christ takes before God and the position every man takes before Christ. God's intention is for women to cover their heads as an expression of His government on earth. He asks only the women to cover their heads. A woman does not cover her head for her own sake but for the sake of representation.

A woman covers her head for herself, because she is a woman. She also covers her head as a representative, because she represents every man, and she also represents Christ. A woman represents every man before Christ. She also represents Christ before God. The woman's covering before God is equal to Christ's covering before God. In the same way, the woman's covering before Christ is equal to every man's covering before Christ.

First Corinthians 11:6 states it is for the sake of the angels. The unique controversy in the universe is because there is one who rebelled against God's authority, thus creating a principle of rebellien - the denial of God's authority.

When we have the sign of submission on our head, that is, when we cover our head, we are rendering the best testimony to the fallen angels. Head covering puts Satan to shame. We are doing what he did not do before God. What God did not obtain among the angels, He has obtained in the church.

--------------------------------------------------

I guess one must see a revelation (spiritual unveiling), that it is never about man's need or woman's rights or sinner's salvation, etc but rather God's need (it's never about you ). From the very beginning, God has been trying to usher in His governmental system. He will continue this work until the very end. Grace always goes along with government. Because man fought and rebelled against the system of government, the system of grace was brought in. The system of grace brings us to salvation and restoration so that we will obey God's system of government. Grace is given to supplement God's system of government. The system of grace perfects the system of government. The system of government is not for the system of grace; rather, the system of grace is here to perfect the system of government.

It is not an either or.

Rev 22:1 And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of [a]the Lamb, 2 in the midst of the street thereof. The divine life flowing out (The Triune God flowing Himself into us as life for our enjoyment - grace - is from the throne (authority or government). Authority is just God Himself (issues out for His God's own being). It is meaningful that in Greek, authority... is εξουσία - ek = out of ; ousia - essense of God.

On that day (new heaven and new earth), both systems will become one.

"Whoever believes in Me, as the Scripture has said: ‘Streams of living water will flow from within him.’

We serve a great God. We serve a great, great, great, great, God.

It's my privilege to follow Jesus Christ.

.
JOHN.1:1-5 (NKJV) = The Eternal Word

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

.
JOHN.6:63-64 = 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. . 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”

.
HEBREWS.4:11-13 = The Word Discovers Our Condition

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

.
1PETER.1:22-25 = .The Enduring Word

22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 24 because

“All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
25
But the word of the Lord endures forever.”

Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

.
MATTHEW.4:1-4 = Satan Tempts Jesus

4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”

4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

_______

JOHN.3:16-21 = 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 25 2019, 09:28 AM

You can add Discovery House Publishers :
https://dhdmalaysia.com/

Although i'm no baptist, but pantai baptist church have a history of good teachings. Can access their recordings here :
https://pbc.my/sermons-2/

Keep believing bro.

ok added.