perception > everything else.

that's what rakyat really wants.

what /k think??? 

so....just keep playing game.... 

i always thought Vivian is a she

well he's right.

it is red herring on TDM's part.

and look at his credentials. no fake degree there.

btw, tdm should really ask who benefits from water deal between Singapore and johor.

specifically, how much does the Syarikat air johor (co-owned by ranhill and johor state govt.) make from selling treated water  to johoreans and malaccans using water bought from Singapore.

(in case ppl think johor ppl drink Singapore's newater, do understand and realise that all of the water Singapore sold to johor came from johor and never ever left johor)

Cut the water. Lets fight at ICJ

more fun.

Cannot cut as it seems from the video that Johor is dependent on Singapore to supply 16 +6 million gallons of treated water.

Furthermore, as indicated in the video, if Malaysia increase the price of raw water, what is there to prevent Singapore to jack up the price of treated water to Malaysia? Isn't that stupid?

If die die want to cut water supply, Johoreans also won't have enough treated water, and it will be considered an act of war by Singapore, and Singapore just need to invade and take over Johor, then their natural resources problems will be solved, Malaysia will definitely retaliate, but is that what both countries want?

In the end this water issue benefits no one and is a non-issue that Tun M has played up many times and is very tiring, just move on and focus on other bread and butter issues la...

(in case ppl think johor ppl drink Singapore's newater, do understand and realise that all of the water Singapore sold to johor came from johor and never ever left johor)

A lot of the raw water of Johor already diverted to Singapore in the first place so how to produce enough treated water? This agreement, just like the building of the Causeway, was another trick by the British. On the surface, it looked as if both the building of the Causeway and the water agreement would benefit Malaysia but in fact we kena conned left, right and center.

Most people don't even know Newater is not drank except in times of emergency such as war, normally it's used for lesser industrial purposes

and invented by ex-Malaysian Chinese

Hyflux is in deep financial trouble.

well he's right.

it is red herring on TDM's part.

and look at his credentials. no fake degree there.

btw, tdm should really ask who benefits from water deal between Singapore and johor.

specifically, how much does the Syarikat air johor (co-owned by ranhill and johor state govt.) make from selling treated water  to johoreans and malaccans using water bought from Singapore.

(in case ppl think johor ppl drink Singapore's newater, do understand and realise that all of the water Singapore sold to johor came from johor and never ever left johor)

I know
1 of these days I'll go down and find my Hyflux contact, ask him what the hell happened

Singkies also get complacent, not just us. But their previous hard work gives them the safety net to rebound. Whereas we are constantly toeing the line...

Maybe Singapore thought that by using desalination they can eventually be free from the need to import water from Johor. In a way that's possible, but I think that is a huge blunder on their part. Because they would have to depend more on energy imports instead to power their desalination plants.

Or we can learn not to kena con

Guess which Msians have been doing for literal centuries

But going back to 1962 - well at the time we were so happy that we booted out all the undesirables to a little island, for a long time there was much rejoicing that we had kicked them out

But as we basked in our hubris and lenggang lenggok, people were working hard. Now we dengki and we say we kena con, they steal our land, bla bla

In my life I've watched the island's fortunes grow, from 2.2 to 2.3 to 3.0... in the meantime we are still stuck where we are

How much longer are we going to bitch and moan? When will we get down to business?

I would not be surprised if SG is the first ASEAN state to become nuclear capable.

It's the inevitable future.

Talking about 2.2 to 2.3 to 3.0 means you don't understand Singapore's monetary policy lah. They use exchange rate policy, not interest-rate monetary policy like the rest of the world.

Why Singapore’s Central Bank Has No Key Rate

Haha. That would be a big joke. A single accident would wipe out the city state.

The means is simply the means, but we are talking about the end result

MAS's objective has always been to push the rate down

If they let it run free, it'll probably be higher than it is today - what does that say about the attractiveness of their economy vs ours?

They are well known to be a attraction for corporate tax avoidance activities. Profits from neighbouring countries which should be rightly be taxed locally are siphoned off to be taxed very lowly by them instead.

Our corporate tax is just as low and we can get "dirty things done dirt cheap" better than them

So why does Singapore attract FDI and not us? Hmm... maybe because this is not the sole or even major factor in their success...

Haha. You are indeed quite ignorant about them. On the surface it looks like their corporate tax rates are not much lower than us. But multinational companies get special deals with them if offshore profits are transferred to Singapore instead. How low? Less than 1% also possible.

Well we can give Lynas practically 0% deal, who wins 

Haha. You are indeed quite ignorant about them. On the surface it looks like their corporate tax rates are not much lower than us. But multinational companies get special deals with them if offshore profits are transferred to Singapore instead. How low? Less than 1% also possible.

I would not be surprised if SG is the first ASEAN state to become nuclear capable.

It's the inevitable future.

The means is simply the means, but we are talking about the end result

MAS's objective has always been to push the rate down

If they let it run free, it'll probably be higher than it is today - what does that say about the attractiveness of their economy vs ours?
On a smaller scale perhaps, pushed out to one of the islands around Jurong. An accident isn't strictly de rigeur when it comes to nuclear power you know.

It'll come sooner or later. Possibly in our lifetime, perhaps not.

Haha. You are indeed quite ignorant about them. On the surface it looks like their corporate tax rates are not much lower than us. But multinational companies get special deals with them if offshore profits are transferred to Singapore instead. How low? Less than 1% also possible.

No, they have no control over interest rates. Their intention is to control inflation, that's all. They remove Singapore dollars from the economy by pushing it up in order to reduce its availability for their people to spend.

They are well known to be a attraction for corporate tax avoidance activities. Profits from neighbouring countries which should be rightly be taxed locally are siphoned off to be taxed very lowly by them instead.

On another note, its their local papers drawing it up

i have CNA on my facebook, everyday its water this and that

here? we worrying about semenyih

On another note, its their local papers drawing it up
i have CNA on my facebook, everyday its water this and that
here? we worrying about semenyih

1 of these days I'll go down and find my Hyflux contact, ask him what the hell happened

It is ironic that Vivian used "red herring" because his arguments were full of them as well.

Let's look at Singapore's points:
1) The 1962 water agreement is a contract and contracts cannot be broken and are sacrosanct.
BS. Contracts are broken all the time. Even treaties can be broken. What follows are consequences

2) The 1965 contract is a basis of the separation and to break it calls into question the very Separation.
BS. The water agreement is not a foundational principle of the Separation but an accommodation to the Separation.
He is saying if the water agreement is not adhered to, the Separation agreement flounders. We need to distinguish between them.

3) Malaysia did not review rates in 1987 and hence has lost all right for further review.
This is debatable. Does passing on a milestone review negate any right forever to review it in perpetuity? Can be argued that Malaysia delayed a decision without prejudice.
For Singapore to say this with finality is disingenuous.

What Malaysia says:
1) This is an unfair contract. Unfair commercial contracts are brought before judicial review or arbitration all the time
2) Singapore is profiting tremendously at their own citizens' expense. Singapore always downplays this.

The reality:
1) Malaysia can choose to terminate but there are consequences. The biggest consequence is that Johor and Melaka rely on Singapore's water. If Malaysia starts building capacity here, then we can get Singapore's attention and bargain. Right now we have no leverage.
2) Malaysia can dam the water out of spite. There is no win win here so this is an immature response. But it creates leverage and uncertainty for Singapore which may help with negotiations
3) Malaysia can propose terms for extending supply if rates are backdated to today. Little strategic value as in the long run, Malaysia does not ned to $ and would still rely on Singapore to furnish water to Johor.
4) at the end, Malaysia's response has always been to tie the water to a package of agreements in the main: ILS Seletar, Johor port harbour limits, KYM land, CPF of West malaysians etc etc

The unknown:
LKY's Singapore hsa said they would defend and go to war over water. The Singapore armed forces strategy has always been to hold ground in Johor for 72 hours and sue for peace.
This doctrine is questionable today. Singapore has always had the hardware to do so but what has changed is how interconnected its economy is to the rest of the world. Before it was port shipping, whichSingapore could protect with its navy. But today, Singapore runs and trades on sentiment and services. The moment the first bullet is fired, Singapore's knowledge economy will be ruined and may never recover. Investors will flee, its sizeable foreign expertise will run and its primary mechanism of inflation management, the S$ will collapse. Malaysia can hunker down for the long term. A war, even if limited and precise, will hurt Singapore irreparably.

The reality:
1) Malaysia can choose to terminate but there are consequences. The biggest consequence is that Johor and Melaka rely on Singapore's water. If Malaysia starts building capacity here, then we can get Singapore's attention and bargain. Right now we have no leverage.
2) Malaysia can dam the water out of spite. There is no win win here so this is an immature response. But it creates leverage and uncertainty for Singapore which may help with negotiations
3) Malaysia can propose terms for extending supply if rates are backdated to today. Little strategic value as in the long run, Malaysia does not ned to $ and would still rely on Singapore to furnish water to Johor.
4) at the end, Malaysia's response has always been to tie the water to a package of agreements in the main: ILS Seletar, Johor port harbour limits, KYM land, CPF of West malaysians etc etc

A lot of the raw water of Johor already diverted to Singapore in the first place so how to produce enough treated water? This agreement, just like the building of the Causeway, was another trick by the British. On the surface, it looked as if both the building of the Causeway and the water agreement would benefit Malaysia but in fact we kena conned left, right and center.

Furthermore, as indicated in the video, if Malaysia increase the price of raw water, what is there to prevent Singapore to jack up the price of treated water to Malaysia? Isn't that stupid?

see how civilised them in the august house

Our papers had never reported the amount of money SG spent in water treatment plants in johor. The 1st water treatment plant had been handed over to Johor in 2011.

Talk to any Johorians esp those in JB n they will tell you that water rationing is not as common as in other parts of MY.

Actually,  really think it is a complete waste of time for us to discuss water. 

What we need is to up our own game which obviously is more difficult than just playing politics.

The official explanation apparently is that hyflux betted big on energy generation in their latest tuaspring plant, but then energy prices tanked so nobody wanted to buy it over and so they just bled money until coffers were dry.

Where u get this info from ?? 1% that's super low

At issue was the margin on mark-ups for commodities BHP sold to its Singapore operations. The island nation's headline company tax rate is 17 per cent, but in years gone by, companies like BHP have been able to legally reduce it to near-zero, thanks to generous incentives from Singapore's Government.

Marketing hubs established by the mining giants allow commodities dug up in Australia, such as iron ore and coal, to be sold to the companies' own operations in Singapore, before they are subsequently sold with a high mark-up to China and other nations.

bullshit

talk about moral when they know they are buying really cheap and unfair price, then wants to hide behind the deal

bullying malaysia while trying to be on high moral ground really makes us puke

Vivian is for male.

Vivienne is female form of Vivian.

like how Danielle is female form of Daniel.

and so on...

sg is already self sufficient in water through NEWater and desalination. in fact, sg has been supplying johor with water when it had shortages in the past few years. malaysia has been threatening to cut for a long time not.

i think just cut water is good, just cut all. sg can also send all malaysians working in singapore back to malaysia. also embargo malaysia, dont buy anything or invest in malaysia. let all the malls and properties and businesses collapse.

sg can simply buy fruits and food from thailand or indonesia instead, sg doesnt need malaysia for anything, including water these days.

go go go   

a war may see peninsula malaysia including KL being ceded to singapore forever.

malaysia stands no chance against sg in a war.

not to mention sg is one of the biggest investor in msia, and many msians work in sg to send money home.

msia economy will collapse first, not that it has much of a high-value-services sector to begin with.

many msians will want to be singaporean citizen rather than msian citizens as well.

a war may see peninsula malaysia including KL being ceded to singapore forever.

malaysia stands no chance against sg in a war. 100 state of the art fighter jets will be over msia's skies 5 mins in and johor will be lost in 2 days. usa/australia may help and the seventh fleet with another 200 airplanes and ships will block out the sunlight in peninsula malaysia.

not to mention sg is one of the biggest investor in msia, and many msians work in sg to send money home.

msia economy will collapse first, not that it has much of a high-value-services sector to begin with.

many msians will want to be singaporean citizen rather than msian citizens as well.

sg has been self sufficient 10 years ago, sg only imports water because it is cheaper. sg can produce water to cover 2x-3x of what it uses.

sg can send all malaysians back home and replace them with 1 billion indians or chinese or thais EASILY, just cancel all their work visas and within a year all gone. many chinese/indians/filipinoes, all want to work in SG. there is no lack of low skilled workers wanting to work in SG

buying food from thailand is not much more expensive than buying from msia, thai rice and msian rice same price anyway.

sg has been self sufficient 10 years ago, sg only imports water because it is cheaper. sg can produce water to cover 2x-3x of what it uses.

sg can send all malaysians back home and replace them with 1 billion indians or chinese or thais EASILY, just cancel all their work visas and within a year all gone. many chinese/indians/filipinoes, all want to work in SG. there is no lack of low skilled workers wanting to work in SG

buying food from thailand is not much more expensive than buying from msia, thai rice and msian rice same price anyway.

u use the tap water in johor, it is so fresh and clean, all colourless can drink straight. because sg treats the water for johor.

u go kl and use the tap water, it is yellow with sediments, a bit disgusting.

u see the difference in STANDARDS when singaporeans do things and other ppl do things?

without singaporeans investing and shopping in johor, tomorrow all can go back farming vegetables, all the malls and shops and service sector will close.

See their game? Buying raw water from us, treated it and selling it back to us, now, we are paying them instead of they paying us.

Singapore pays 3 sen (1 Singapore cent) per 1,000 gallons of raw water, and sells treated water back to Johor at 50 sen per 1,000 gallons.

Singapore drawing up to 250 million gallons a day (mgd) of raw water from the Johor River, and Johor entitled to 5mgd of treated water from Singapore.

Per above, SG buying raw water from us @ rm 7500, they are selling treated water to us @ rm 2500.
In the video, the minister admitted that they are selling more than the agreement of 5mgd @ 16 million gallons of treated water back to us. So they paid us rm7500, we pay them rm 8000.00. We actually paying then rm 500 daily.

Walao, we give them 250 m gallons, they give us back 16 m gallons and we need to pay them at the end of the day. Win liao lo.

We don't know how to treat water? We don't have land to build water treatment plant? We don't have money? Don't have technology? I suggest no more exporting raw water to sg, they want buy, buy treated water from us @ rate 40 cent / 1000 gallon (20% below what they selling us) we will build water treatment plant in johor.

these plants can already produce 2-3x the amount of water singapore uses.

signapore has NO NEED to import water from johor anymore but does so because it is CHEAPER.

it is the same old silly politicians trying to stir crap...but their brains still stuck in 1970s...SG is already in 2020!!

It was a clear-cut con job by the British, just like the building of the Causeway. Too bad we didn't realised that back then and got trapped.

sg has no need for msia for anythiing, from food to workers.

everything can be swtiched to another source.

the only need was water but that has ceased 10-20 years ago. even before that, 30-40 years ago, with some water rationing, sg will be okay even if water was cut.

sg will hit gdppc 80k in 2030, while msia will still be stuck at 15k, and politicians will still talk about sg being 'little brother' lol.

sg just got 4 new submarines and will be getting f35 soon. the japanese are getting 100 f35s as well.

good luck 

sg has no need for msia for anythiing, from food to workers.

everything can be swtiched to another source.

the only need was water but that has ceased 10-20 years ago. even before that, 30-40 years ago, with some water rationing, sg will be okay even if water was cut.

sg will hit gdppc 80k in 2030, while msia will still be stuck at 15k, and politicians will still talk about sg being 'little brother' lol.

sg just got 4 new submarines and will be getting f35 soon. the japanese are getting 100 f35s as well.

good luck 

ships can use any malaysian ports now but msias ports cannot compete with sg or even china.

sg is more efficient, no corruption (wont go missing), can transport out better.

ships can use any malaysian ports now but msias ports cannot compete with sg or even china.

sg is more efficient, no corruption (wont go missing), can transport out better.

even the nice properties in kl or johor, who do you think are buying them?

1 million ringgit, can the average msian afford?

or sporeans buying second homes (300k sgd)?

of course, sg tourists spend lots of money in msia. when you go to johor, u see the malls, who are buying things? sg people or msians working in sg.

how u think these malls or starbucks stay open and pay rent? how you think the cofeeshop, retail, hotel, bars, repair shops all collect money to pay their staff?

sg also is one of the largest investor in msia, the amount is not a lot u are right, so feel free to cut sg off, i guess msia will surivive for sure as well.

https://www.dosm.gov.my/v1/index.php?r=colu...nMwNjdoK3g4QT09

FDI BY COUNTRY

The top five investing countries for inflows in 2014 namely Singapore, Netherlands, Hong Kong, Cayman Islands and Bermuda. These countries recorded a total of RM22.4 billion or 63.4 per cent of the total inflows in Malaysia. With regard to position as at end 2014, FDI investment was mainly originated from Singapore, Japan, Netherlands, USA and Norway which amounted to a total of RM257.7 billion or 55.1 per cent of total position in Malaysia. In term of income, USA, Singapore, Netherlands, Japan and Bermuda were the top earner in 2014. These countries recorded a total of RM39.0 billion or 62.3 per cent of total income in Malaysia.

even the nice properties in kl or johor, who do you think are buying them?

1 million ringgit, can the average msian afford?

or sporeans buying second homes (300k sgd)?

money doesnt flow from msia to sg, msia is just a developing country with not much money. money flows from sg to msia, it is the other way around.

and money flows from china, eu, usa, japan to sg.

BTW almost every sporean i know wants msia to do well and develop well and be safe and stable country.

sporeans got another nice country to live in, retire, shopping, etc.

many sporeans willingly go msia for holiday, spend money, buy coffee, buy houses even.

but as you know, it is the old corrupted politicians and all their bs divisive stories floating around for decades in msia.

The foreigner property investors per above, is benefitting Malaysian or benefitting Singaporean?  Sure, they paid taxes, but are they paying taxes without making any profit?

As of investment, as long as there are money to be make, anyone will make it, don't necessarily only come from SG people. And to be honest, I don't think they will give up making money and investing in Malaysia just because of water deal and crooked bridge.

As of tourist, who is the one get bored and wanted to find some entertainment? Have you heard how Malaysian are complaining about how Singaporean driving up the cost of living in JB?

I hope our government takes action just like what the Australian tax authorities are doing to their tax-avoiding large companies:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-20/tax-...-fight/10512732
Imagine we have a factory here that produced something at RM100 and intending to sell to China at RM150. The factory can avoid paying tax on the RM50 profit by "selling" to their Singapore "marketing arm" for RM100.01 and then its "marketing arm" "sells" to China for RM150, with Singapore only levying perhaps a tiny 0.25% tax on the RM49.99 profit.

This, to me, is morally wrong.

And we bloody hell said this is SG fault?

Our JB MB had jux admitted that we will plan to reduce dependence on SG on treated water😡

We are behaving like master race accusing other race of doing well because they work hard?

I think if crowded Singapore is situated in the middle of the Indian Ocean, most of the inhabitants would have gone mad if there is no cheap budget flights out of the island.

a war may see peninsula malaysia including KL being ceded to singapore forever.

malaysia stands no chance against sg in a war. 100 state of the art fighter jets will be over msia's skies 5 mins in and johor will be lost in 2 days. usa/australia may help and the seventh fleet with another 200 airplanes and ships will block out the sunlight in peninsula malaysia.

not to mention sg is one of the biggest investor in msia, and many msians work in sg to send money home.

msia economy will collapse first, not that it has much of a high-value-services sector to begin with.

many msians will want to be singaporean citizen rather than msian citizens as well.

I find it strange that Malaysia media kiasu kiasi dont dare to report SG had invested billions of RM in Johor-owned Lingui dam which was handed over in 2011, upon expiry of 1st H2O agreemwent.

Any views?

u use the tap water in johor, it is so fresh and clean, all colourless can drink straight. because sg treats the water for johor.
u go kl and use the tap water, it is yellow with sediments, a bit disgusting.
u see the difference in STANDARDS when singaporeans do things and other ppl do things?

without singaporeans investing and shopping in johor, tomorrow all can go back farming vegetables, all the malls and shops and service sector will close.

sg has no need for msia for anythiing, from food to workers.
everything can be swtiched to another source.
the only need was water but that has ceased 10-20 years ago. even before that, 30-40 years ago, with some water rationing, sg will be okay even if water was cut.

sg will hit gdppc 80k in 2030, while msia will still be stuck at 15k (the kind of standards sg had in 1980), and politicians with brains stuck in 1970s will still talk about sg being 'little brother' lol.

sg just got 4 new submarines and will be getting f35 soon. the japanese are getting 100 f35s as well.
good luck 

And we bloody hell said this is SG fault?

Our JB MB had jux admitted that we will plan to reduce dependence on SG on treated water😡

We are behaving like master race accusing other race of doing well because they work hard?

Humkaling Mamakthir should honour the agreement.

Abislah Johor if Singapore stops supplying treated water to Johor.

Trump pull out of a fair agreement all the time no problem..why malaysia pull out of illogical agreement causing problem?

Malaysia so soft..why not stop the water and bring the case to ICJ? I confident even the judge there will find the term in the agreement ridiculous

Honestly speaking,  there are more pressing matters for us to attend to n work on than this stupid H2O thing.

Instead of upping our own game n increase our competitiveness.

How about bringing back all our overseas workers who are contributing to other economies(yes, including those in SG)?

Najib last time even abolish toll collection for malaysian working in sinkapor. Hopefully new govt will introduce back the toll. At least money from the toll can be used as a form of replacement tax to those working and paying tax to singakapor govt.

Do you know SG is selling treated watet at a loss to Johor?

SG quoted S$2.40 to treat water.  So far,  no MY govt officer dispute the figure😡

Will judge consider this?

Trump pull out of a fair agreement all the time no problem..why malaysia pull out of illogical agreement causing problem?

Malaysia so soft..why not stop the water and bring the case to ICJ? I confident even the judge there will find the term in the agreement ridiculous

I can buy an apartment for only 450k myr, which takes me only 2-3 years to save due to govt subsidies. I can sell it later for more.

they will never go back to msia and let their standards if living drop
Maybe for retirement or family they would.

I knew it was low, but not so low. No wonder there got so much of cash stashed in their banks

Working in sg, I get paid 2-3x what lawyers in msia get paid.

I can just drink from the tap, food and water is so clean, I feel healthy.

Everything is clean and modern.

I can buy an apartment for only 450k myr, which takes me only 2-3 years to save due to govt subsidies. I can sell it later for more.

I can go to uni and I got a degree from a top 15 world ranked uni for just 20k SGD. First class hons as well.

I am so thankful for being born Singaporean.