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> Vivian Balakrishnan remarks that Malaysia-, -Singapore water deal is "morally wrong"

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Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 01:35 AM

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perception > everything else.

that's what rakyat really wants.

Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 01:45 AM

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QUOTE(zacky chan @ Mar 3 2019, 01:30 AM)
what /k think???  hmm.gif


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well he's right.

it is red herring on TDM's part.

and look at his credentials. no fake degree there.

btw, tdm should really ask who benefits from water deal between Singapore and johor.

specifically, how much does the Syarikat air johor (co-owned by ranhill and johor state govt.) make from selling treated water to johoreans and malaccans using water bought from Singapore.

(in case ppl think johor ppl drink Singapore's newater, do understand and realise that all of the water Singapore sold to johor came from johor and never ever left johor)


Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 01:50 AM

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QUOTE(zacky chan @ Mar 3 2019, 01:42 AM)
so....just keep playing game....  hmm.gif
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well rakyat never was serious 100% of the time anyway...
Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 01:52 AM

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QUOTE(smallcrab @ Mar 3 2019, 01:45 AM)
i always thought Vivian is a she
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Vivian is for male.

Vivienne is female form of Vivian.

like how Danielle is female form of Daniel.

and so on...
Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(tatsuyachiba @ Mar 3 2019, 02:27 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


The reality:
1) Malaysia can choose to terminate but there are consequences. The biggest consequence is that Johor and Melaka rely on Singapore's water. If Malaysia starts building capacity here, then we can get Singapore's attention and bargain. Right now we have no leverage.
2) Malaysia can dam the water out of spite. There is no win win here so this is an immature response. But it creates leverage and uncertainty for Singapore which may help with negotiations
3) Malaysia can propose terms for extending supply if rates are backdated to today. Little strategic value as in the long run, Malaysia does not ned to $ and would still rely on Singapore to furnish water to Johor.
4) at the end, Malaysia's response has always been to tie the water to a package of agreements in the main: ILS Seletar, Johor port harbour limits, KYM land, CPF of West malaysians etc etc

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
1. only part of johor and parts of melaka rely on water treated by Singapore. as mentioned, the raw water never left Malaysian soil, it has always been processed by Singapore's PUB water treatment plants inside Johor's borders.

technically johor (well, ranhill bhd) has been building capacity over the years as well as getting some of the previously-owned-by-Singapore water treatment plants (those set up by Singapore in the lapsed 1961 agreement that ended in 2011).

2. as Vivian mentioned, johor got a free dam (lingggui dam) out of all this.

3. once the 1962 agreement ends in 2061, all Singapore water plants located in johor will be given FOC to johor (like what happened to 1-2 treatment plants under the 1961 agreement which ranhil-SAJ took over in 2011). and Singapore must find a new source of water if they don't want to buy any more water (raw or treated) from johor.

hence the plan by Singapore to buy water from Indonesia laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif


Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(Artus @ Mar 3 2019, 02:44 AM)
A lot of the raw water of Johor already diverted to Singapore in the first place so how to produce enough treated water? This agreement, just like the building of the Causeway, was another trick by the British. On the surface, it looked as if both the building of the Causeway and the water agreement would benefit Malaysia but in fact we kena conned left, right and center.
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clearly many ppl are underinformed.
Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(weissPC @ Mar 3 2019, 02:30 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Furthermore, as indicated in the video, if Malaysia increase the price of raw water, what is there to prevent Singapore to jack up the price of treated water to Malaysia? Isn't that stupid?

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
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finally someone with a smart answer to all of this.

congrats. there is hope amongst malaysians
Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(JimbeamofNRT @ Mar 3 2019, 02:58 AM)
see how civilised them in the august house
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that's what happen when you properly use a cadre system to pick your MPs and inevitably future leaders.

but of course it will mean only the elites will rule...
Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(mleemlee232 @ Mar 3 2019, 08:24 AM)
Our papers had never reported the amount of money SG spent in water treatment plants in johor. The 1st water treatment plant had been handed over to Johor in 2011.

Talk to any Johorians esp those in JB n they will tell you that water rationing is not as common as in other parts of MY.

Actually,  really think it is a complete waste of time for us to discuss water. 

What we need is to up our own game which obviously is more difficult than just playing politics.
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this.

though there have been occasional water rationing or shortages.

only south and south east johor benefit from Singapore-treated water plants, all other districts get water from fully Malaysian plants.

let's not forget kluang had a very bad water shortage problem just a few year's back.

but 1 thing that is very commendable is the water quality sold to us by SAJ.

in johor you don't need those water filters as the water is clean (unlike say Selangor where water filter is a must).


Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 09:48 PM

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QUOTE(KopiChia @ Mar 3 2019, 03:50 PM)
Ever heard of Vivian Hsu? Go Google her.
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yes.

and the fact is that she used the wrong spelling for her name.

QUOTE

The spelling Vivian was historically used only as a masculine name, and is still used as such in the UK with this spelling, but in the 19th century was also given to girls and was a unisex name until the early part of the 20th century;
Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 09:52 PM

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QUOTE(wannastudy @ Mar 3 2019, 03:52 PM)
sg is already self sufficient in water through NEWater and desalination. in fact, sg has been supplying johor with water when it had shortages in the past few years. malaysia has been threatening to cut for a long time not.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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the water that SG supplies johor came from johor and never ever left johor. Singapore's PUB just processes the raw water from johor rivers at their plant in johor and piped them straight into SAJ's pipes.


Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 10:10 PM

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QUOTE(wanted111who @ Mar 3 2019, 04:06 PM)
See their game? Buying raw water from us, treated it and selling it back to us, now, we are paying them instead of they paying us.

Singapore pays 3 sen (1 Singapore cent) per 1,000 gallons of raw water, and sells treated water back to Johor at 50 sen per 1,000 gallons.

Singapore drawing up to 250 million gallons a day (mgd) of raw water from the Johor River, and Johor entitled to 5mgd of treated water from Singapore.

Per above, SG buying raw water from us @ rm 7500, they are selling treated water to us @ rm 2500.
In the video, the minister admitted that they are selling more than the agreement of 5mgd @ 16 million gallons of treated water back to us. So they paid us rm7500, we pay them rm 8000.00. We actually paying then rm 500 daily.

Walao, we give them 250 m gallons, they give us back 16 m gallons and we need to pay them at the end of the day. Win liao lo.

We don't know how to treat water? We don't have land to build water treatment plant? We don't have money? Don't have technology? I suggest no more exporting raw water to sg, they want buy, buy treated water from us @ rate 40 cent / 1000 gallon (20% below what they selling us) we will build water treatment plant in johor.
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kesian tak baca any of my explanation.

or didn't realise it cost RM2.40 to Singapore to treat 1,000 gallon of raw water that Johor got for only RM0.50....

so Singapore lose RM1.90 for every 1,000 gallon that they sell to Johor.

BTW, here's some enlightenment:

1. johor never exported raw water to Singapore and Singapore never imported raw water from johor.

2. all water that flow thru those pipes you see at the causeway are treated water and not raw water.

the water flow only 1 way (from johor to Singapore)

3. all raw water that Singapore collect go to their water treatment plant located in Johor. you can see one of such previously owned by Singapore water treatment plants beside the road at jalan skudai, just before the exit to UTM skudai.

now that plant is owned by ranhill as the lease expired with the end of the 1st agreement back in 2011.

but the kampung that the previous staff of the plants stayed nearby has always been called kampung PUB (public utilities board, the name of Singapore's water utility company).


Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 10:15 PM

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QUOTE(mleemlee232 @ Mar 3 2019, 05:11 PM)
Do you know SG is selling treated watet at a loss to Johor?

SG quoted S$2.40 to treat water.  So far,  no MY govt officer dispute the figure😡

Will judge consider this?
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ah finally someone who bothered to read up on the issue
Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 10:19 PM

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QUOTE(gogocan @ Mar 3 2019, 05:25 PM)
Cost to treat water in malaysia is RM 2.30. So rather than paying RM 7.20 to singkapor why not use the balance to build a better water treatment plant in johor.

Maybe can ask Johor MB to consider this.
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kesian x faham.

what mleemlee232 is saying is that the water Singapore sold to us for RM0.50 per 1k gallon costs RM7.20 to Singapore.

it's Singapore that are losing money selling treated water to johor.

but no one from Johor will admit this publicly bcos then it will open a huge can of worms...
Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 10:33 PM

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QUOTE(syahmie8 @ Mar 3 2019, 09:17 PM)
Better Johor/Malaysia gov start to make our own water treatment plant la.. What holding us from doing so??
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we already did, but why build too much water treatment plants when we will eventually inherit those built by Singapore by year 2061?

as it is we already got a very nice water treatment plant that Singapore built for us back in 2011 when the 1st water agreement signed in 1961 lapsed in 2011.
Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 10:42 PM

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QUOTE(wanted111who @ Mar 3 2019, 10:14 PM)
Thanks for your explanation, then it's better for johor not selling it at raw water price, straight selling it as treated water to Singapore right? It make much more sense that way.
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the deal is Singapore buy raw water not treated water.

but when deal is signed Singapore didn't have land for treatment plant.

land in johor cheaper then.

besides treating water for Singapore's use, they also treat the water for Johor's use.

that was the deal.

the deal signed has provisions whereby the plants that Singapore build will be handed over to johor once deal lapses.

as mentioned many times Singapore already gave johor the 1st water treatment plant built under the 1st agreement that lapsed in 2011.

johor in turn gave rights to operate that water treatment plant and sell water to crony company ranhill…

whistling.gif whistling.gif whistling.gif




Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(wannastudy @ Mar 3 2019, 10:34 PM)
I don't think msia has the ability to run a world class water treatment plant.

U see when sg treats the water, it is crystal clear and u can drink it straight.

U go to places like kl, the bloody tap water is yellow with thick chlorine and has sediments and floating stuff inside.

So there u go.

But nowadays even a xiaomi water purfier has membrane technology and can filter waste water to become drinkable...for 1000 ringgit so it is not like we are in 1960s
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that one is bcos syabas never replaced their old pipes.

besides that's what you get from free or cheap water whistling.gif whistling.gif whistling.gif

Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 10:54 PM

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QUOTE(wanted111who @ Mar 3 2019, 10:30 PM)
1987 is 30 years ago, who's paying the maintainance for the plant? Also we didn't charge SG the cost of treated water since they help with water treatment plant. We are selling as raw waters for 30 years since 87 no?
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johor have been selling raw water to Singapore since 1920s.

bcos back then johor and Singapore were under same british influence.

especially with Singapore as it's a proper settlement colony.

Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 10:56 PM

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QUOTE(wannastudy @ Mar 3 2019, 10:39 PM)
Yes and johor govt will sell that 50 sen water to ppl in johor for a lot more like 1.99 ringgit? And make a profit doing nothing.

That's the real reason why they don't want to cut water.

U think they have billions and the expertise to run a water treatment plant as well as sg?

Maybe but surely not as well
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the real question is who benefits from selling water supplied by Singapore to johor customers?

since cost to the seller is zero?

whistling.gif whistling.gif whistling.gif
Faidzal
post Mar 3 2019, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(wanted111who @ Mar 3 2019, 10:48 PM)
Means now we are paying for the plant maintaince fees since 2011? Walao , really no free meal from sg. We are paying them 250mgd -16mgd raw treated water, paying them rm500 everyday and still need to pay to maintain the treatment plant?
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hello my friend?

you got comprehension problem?

johor doesn't pay any money to Singapore for the treated water la.

the amount they buy from us is bigger than the amount we are buying from them.

it's net loss to Singapore.


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