I have seen some of my my older friends retire relatively early. One at 42 and another 40. Then there is my own parents who retired at 60 and 55. From my observation my Dad was happy to retire. Most of the days he just woke up at 5am, go for roti canai or wantan mee, read all the newspapers until 10am. Then have his 2nd breakfast and then wash his 2 cars. After a late lunch he would bug my mum or brothers with incessant questioning until around 7pm. Light dinner then bed at 9pm. The next day the same. Occasional trips (5 times per year). He passed away almost 4 years ago.

My mom retired at 60. Regretted it and went back to part time work a year later. Did part time for another 5 years. She is 78 now and is very active. Goes from her kids house to house visiting grandchildren. Travels every month, gardening groups, walking groups etc. She still complaina she is bored.

Friend who retired at 40. Very active in church so now works at the church like a regular employee but no pay

Friend 42 helps with the kids at home coz wife wants to work. Tells me that its worse than working. LOL

So from everything I have observed...I am gonna continue working at least part time .

Agreed, people confuses frugality with miserly so often it frustrates me.

To me, living below means or frugality is a mindset to adopt, that if one have those mindset, we are always evaluating how we are spending our resources and if it 'brings joy' to borrow a cliché.

That enables us to free up more resources as we go on this journey.

Does anybody set aside a certain fund for sickness? to my knowledge most older insurance policies only cover up to 80 years old.

As long as the expenses can cover basic living needs, not something extra that we do not need to have, that is frugal.

Basic living needs:
- 3x meals a day. Do not have to overspend in this category, just eat economical food.
- Car can buy older used car, preferably with cash if enough saved up. Try avoid loans especially for brand new cars.
- If salary below 5k, try avoid buying a house. Renting is cheaper than buying especially if it's a single person. Unless really necessary, keep the monthly installment to below the 30% monthly salary threshold.
- Can opt for local travels, not necessary to go abroad. One year can travel 2-3 times locally instead of just 1 time abroad. Many people just want to be instagramable by going abroad. That one can be done when achieve FI/RE, the country won't run away.

I cannot comment on other discretionary expenses such as shopping, social life and entertainment as everybody will view that differently. But to me, all these discretionary expenses can be avoided totally without affecting the quality of present life. Those who just want to live the present life or adapt to YOLO lifestyle can forget about FI/RE as they don't emphasise on the future.

At >80 y.o, why need substantial medical treatment?

Hahaha. That's an excellent, excellent point - and, as a doctor, I can not help but agree with you: QUALITY of life, not just QUANTITY.

Taking care of kids is indeed more tiring than work.

I say previously in this thread I dont mind working and since it's my own firm so my time is more flexible and can work anywhere I want.

My goal is to create wealth which is equivalent to my business.

I may stray abit from your topic. FIRE is great achievement that not many can reach. Happy and congrats to those that can. However, end of the day with all the money we gather, we spending it to create memories and experience for ownself at later life. Some will contribute to family and community, kudos to people that contribute/donate to others, obviously they are one level above. But why not do it now? Is theres so called perfect life? Why we gather so much wealth that we dont use, you know you will never use.

Sometimes even the places we visited, we forget until we look at the pictures we took. Sometimes you wake up asking whats the point of life. Somehow it is hilarious, this is life. Lol

I think he is talking about private medical costs which is not covered by medical card because those above 70 usually cannot get medical card. My mum at 74 broke her arm and we kids paid for her surgery. Costs us close to 80K including metal plate, surgery and stays at the hospital.

this. my grandfather kena ruptured appendicitis, stayed in ICU and operation also more thaan 80k. No insurance coverage.

yes very true, you still need money if going for proper treatment
unless someone thinks oh already 80 years old.........enough lah
if fall ill and treatment so expensive, forget it, no need treatment lah..

Just like some will wonder what's the point of FIRE.

While many will think life is more enjoyable after FIRE, but there will be always some people feeling emptiness.
IMO, if one enjoy the current job or work, I think it is unnecessary to consider FIRE. Finding meaningful thing (everyday) to occupy your life after retirement can be quite challenging.

I think the economics terminology is “marginal utility”. What is the extra satisfaction we get per extra unit of money we spent. To give an example: take a person with income of 10k and he spends 3k only with saving rate of 70%. If he increases his expenses to 6k. The extra 3k will provide a lot of utility/satisfaction because he can now enjoy air cond, high speed Internet, once a while outings with friends for drink or cafes . In such a case, the savings of 3k over the long run is in my opinion not wise. If his income later increases to 20k, then a case can be made for him to maintain his expenses at 6k because, once the most basic needs/wants are covered, additional spending provides lesser and lesser utility . So, ya, it’s a constant evaluation of “how much more happy am I going to be by spending this money” . If you are driving a Myvi, probably spending more on a Vios does not provide much added utility.. but going from taking bus to driving Axia is a huge increase in utility .

Yes.

The problem is, unless you have way way more than needed, we don’t know really know whether we need the extra money/buffer in the future ... if only we know when and how we will die, then yes, we can spend the “extra”

Is there complication? 80k is a lot right for arm surgery ?

Is the bulk of charges from ICU? Even bypass does not cost that much right?

If i set aside money for sickness, i will drop insurance coverage. But if i dont set money for sickness, better have insurance. Also, nowadays not difficult to get insurance coverage up to age 100.

Btw medical insurance at age >80 not cheap. Depends on much you value the medical insurance.

in this example, appendicitis only... not any big disease like cancer, etc. To say no need treatment then not applicable at this moment.

Private medical costs are really high. My mom fell from a mango tree (yes she climbed up the tree!) They had to do xrays, order the metal plate from overseas, staying in the hospital for a week. Every single item in the surgical theatre costs money.

Just last week my BIL went into a hospital for a stent. Just stayed one night and it cost him 25K!

Government hospital is a option.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Dec 6 2019, 01:34 AM

ICU stay...doctor visit one time then got consultation charges already.. bypass should cost even more lol.. especially more so 10,20,40, 50 years down the road.

Since this group is FI/RE, how much are you willing to set aside just for medical that won't eat into your retirement lifestyle?

Not selling any insurance but i just applied new policy early this year and it covers up to 100, but then again i'm no where near FI lol.Shit happens man. all type of diseases can come anytime.

if you are at the level of FI/RE i doubt that you would want to go to a government hospital as your first choice

You have good points. while people have benefited from being in government hospital, i really dont want it to be my only choice.

So for peace of mind (i work in insurance industry, so my access and planning can be more personalised to myself), the medical insurance i have now, i will keep it until i'm old, provided inflation do not eat up the coverage provided.

I will buy medical insurance with a deductible/excess, say RM5000. so like you say, when shit happens, i pay for RM5000. The rest claim from insurance. If no shit happen, great, i just pay the premium for peace of mind.

Assuming i'm near or at FI, RM5000 i think can afford. at least it is a stop-loss mechanism, and that is the amount i need to set aside every year, maybe slightly more counting in certain things the insurance may not fully cover. so, i strongly support and recommend the half own, half insurance method.

I think most medical policies that cover up to 100 now with the new BNM ruling that came effect since July 2019 that requires insurers to ensure that the policy is sustainable up to 100. So I have also bought a ILP with medical coverage up to RM 1.5mil annually. Reason I bought ILP instead of standalone medical card is the hope that the fund value is able to offset the increase in insurance cost in the future when I FI/RE. I do not want to over burden myself with insurance premiums when I get old later.

So if everything is constant, I only have to set aside RM400 per month for insurance premium, not going to affect my plan to FI/RE tremendously.

I know there is still some stereotyping when it comes to government hospital. However speaking from personal experience I really want to defend gov hospitals here.

When it comes to specialized fields, sometimes gov hospital can be better than private, especially when comes to facilities and even the doctor quality - of course not comparing with those super high end world class doctors that costs an arm/leg.

If you are not on emergency case and don’t mind waiting a bit longer, government hospital specialists are great too and save a lot of cost