Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bump Topic Topic Closed RSS Feed
8 Pages  1 2 3 > » Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 FI/RE - Financial Independence / Retire Early, Share your experience

views
     
icemanfx
post Jul 3 2018, 03:35 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012



With about 3% of adults have over us$100k net worth, those with practical experience is fewer than most expected.


icemanfx
post Jul 3 2018, 11:43 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(howszat @ Jul 3 2018, 07:57 PM)
That 3% figure cannot be correct.

For sure, a lot more people have over USD100k (RM405k) net worth.
*
This 3% number is from a investment bank i.e. independent, is consistent with data from epf.

icemanfx
post Jul 3 2018, 11:53 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(howszat @ Jul 3 2018, 11:50 PM)
If you consider the average house price, as well as the number of Mercedes, BMW, Camry, Accords around, and 20k earners, you can see the 3% is too low.

Got a link?
*
Many of these are bought with borrowing, which is reflected in elevated household debt.

icemanfx
post Jul 4 2018, 12:08 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(Ramjade @ Jul 3 2018, 11:54 PM)
Actually my job requires a degree. No qualification, can't get in. Well that's what you get for working in Malaysia without proper labour laws. People in other country in the same field works like only 8 hours and get much higher paid.
Agreed. 3% is too low and when was this data publish.
*
Numbers published yearly, about 3% was last year.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 4 2018, 12:09 AM
icemanfx
post Jul 4 2018, 02:51 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


In economics, the more people try to achieve financial independent, the more difficult it will get.

Most if not all passive income is from someone who worked e.g rental, interest, dividend, etc payment.

If many achieved financial independent, could the remaining working population sustain? Shrinking work force will cause wages inflation, drop in demand or both that diminish passive income.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 4 2018, 02:56 PM
icemanfx
post Jul 15 2018, 10:14 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012



Working overseas with expat pay is a more realistic approach to fire.

icemanfx
post Jul 15 2018, 05:06 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(aspartame @ Jul 15 2018, 04:52 PM)
Conclusion: average ktards income per month is above RM20k
*
Bnm report on kv property is unaffordable to most, epf statistics on income, elevated household debt is fake news.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 15 2018, 05:06 PM
icemanfx
post Jul 16 2018, 09:34 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(meonkutu11 @ Jul 15 2018, 07:10 PM)
Don’t worry mate. Let them in their non-believers and denial.
You know yourselves better.
Some of them in that position maybe because they are older than you but not started early or maybe just ignorance.

Keep it up! Keep positive.
*
People could believe in many things e.g Robert kiyosaki's "rich Dad poor Dad". The question is how realistic and practical?

Oh ya, "rich Dad poor Dad" is as real as Harry Potter.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 16 2018, 09:35 PM
icemanfx
post Jul 17 2018, 05:52 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(polarzbearz @ Jul 16 2018, 09:38 PM)
Haters will always be hating and "grapes that we can't eat is always sour". So don't mind them. Impressive achievement you have there. I know of 5 figures earner of early 20's but are nowhere close to what you achieved due to lifestyle spending being the priority than portfolios growth. smile.gif
*
Why must a person doubting "rich dad poor Dad" story is a hater? Classifying different in opinion a hater could only from zealous cult e.g those highly geared and believe property price will uuu regardless.
icemanfx
post Jul 17 2018, 10:19 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ Jul 17 2018, 09:26 PM)
Great explanation.
Dose that mean need 80k pa for rental only then meet he 8%pa? meaning 6.6k per month.
A few houses I see worth 1.2 also rented out as 2.5k per month at lost 3.5k barely touch 5k....

Meaning the owner is at lost?
I thought as long as the rental can cover all expenses and loan amount (per month) consider an ok condition? If having surplus eg: loan 400 per month rent out 800 per month.
*
Except those bought years ago, if rental could cover loan instalment, qualified tenant would have bought.

with about 3% of adults in this country have over us$100k net worth, those could afford to retire early are few and far in between.


This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 17 2018, 11:01 PM
icemanfx
post Jul 18 2018, 12:20 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(ch_leong @ Jul 18 2018, 12:04 PM)
Property is long term asset/low liquidity you calculate at book/cost value. Furthermore you have debts on the property.

Stock is a short term/mid term asset/high liquidity you calculate at market value.

Use this method will be easy and handy.

On the other hand, you can apply fair value to your property / stock if you really want to calculate the yield. Of course Fair Value is very subjective but you will have better feel. E.g. Bought XXX apartment 400K. Current Market Value is 600K. So you think you can sell it immediately for 560K. Then U can apply 'Fair Value' as 560K to use it in your yield calculation. Fair Value is very useful but you have to be honest. If you buy 500K and current market value at 300K and actually you think you can only sell it at 260K, so you will apply fair value between 260K-300K.

Applying which value in yield calculation will depends on your honesty and feel good factor.

BTW, I'm not talking about Accounting for company.
*
Property unlike stocks, commodities, Bitcoin, etc is not trade on exchange. Difference between asking/perceived market price and transacted price could be significant. Except during bull run, vendor asking/perceived market price is often syok sendiri.

Many invested in property because of leverage. Leverage is a double edges sword, amplify profit as well as losses.

Given growing magnitude of oversupply in kv property, price is expected to stay depressed for extended periods.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 18 2018, 12:23 PM
icemanfx
post Aug 7 2018, 11:54 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 7 2018, 11:10 AM)
Agreed.
Lots of folks can't even hit the basic level of financial freedom (ie. BASIC living, not lifeSTYLE) BUT one shot want to hit level 2 or 3 liao.
Step by step is the best - achieve "level basic" first, then think about adding gravy if wanted. If i looked at the gravy only, instead of hitting the basic living first, i'd have totally given up before trying tongue.gif

----------------
To share simple maths on "how much is enough" (my own PoV la, for those who's unsure or totally no idea how much they need):
1. Life style expenses wanted in future value of $ = current value of $ * (1+4%)^years
eg. 60K pa *(1+4% inflation per year) ^20 years time
= $131,467.39 pa needed in future value of $

2. Minimum investments/savings needed to generate (1.) pa = $131,467.39 / 4% returns = $3,286,684.71
Note - eg uses FD only. If U are an asset allocator & investor, 6%pa on total is very doable, thus need way less seeding / investment assets.

3. To be safe, assuming we spend only half of (2.) + invest the other half to keep ahead of inflation =  $6,573,369.43
This is the safest place to be - high probability to be able to leave something behind +have safety buffers.

NOTEs:
a. the above, even (2.) is assuming we do not eat into the seed capital / investment assets, just skimming 4%pa off the top, thus (2.) works as if one doesn't plan to leave $ behind. To be even safer (i'm a worrier, so...)

b. (3.) would be a "safer place" + U may want to run Monte Carlo simulations on your projections (at least 1000 iterations) if your assets are allocated in highly fluctuating investment assets, eg. in stocks, businesses even properties (look at rentals for residentials & offices nowadays due to the overhangs)

Just sharing PoVs ya - no absolute right/wrong in personal financial planning. It is PERSONAL after all.
*
According to reports, less than 0.4% of adults in this country have over us$1m net worth.

icemanfx
post Aug 7 2018, 01:02 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(sky18 @ Aug 7 2018, 12:27 PM)
Source? Individual or household?
*
Wealth report by investment bank. Adults.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Aug 7 2018, 01:03 PM
icemanfx
post Aug 12 2018, 04:19 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(Garysydney @ Aug 12 2018, 12:28 PM)
I actually didn't know how much i would need for a comfortable retirement for me in Msia even going back 1-2 years ago which is why i was so interested in retirement/cost of living threads esp in this forum (which actually is the only forum that i read/join). My relatives were all telling me how stupid i was quitting my job when my package is so good and that i could easily work another 5 years and build up a bigger retirement fund. My siblings are all calling me stupid fool behind my back!! I then tell myself - how much is enough? My wife has been bugging me for years to retire (as she is home alone most of the time as she has stopped working at 50 and we are the same age).
If i were to live and retire in Sydney (next year), then the assets i have would only give me a very modest retirement because cost of living is very high in Sydney esp when you want to enjoy a bit in life like eating out and overseas travel because Sydney is so far away from everywhere! I have been doing a detailed budget each time (last 1-2 years) recently when i go back to Kl for a holiday (i have been going back to KL for holidays every 5 months for about 4-5 weeks and i love it!) and i have been doing this for the past 4-5 years. I spent about rm3k/week (not incl my air tickets) when i was on holiday staying in Bangsar Baru (i inherited the house from my mum) and this involves eating out everyday and short trips to nearby towns (Ipoh, Muar, Melaka). I also pay for those who accompanies me around and i would eat at canton-i, i-dragon, Din Tai Fung, Greenview Rest and Overseas Imbi quite a fair bit but i don't usually order live seafood (because my wife doesn't allow me to eat live animals/seafood due to her religion!). I am not going to spend like this if i retire in KL (we might go out and every every couple of days but not everyday!). I only concluded (in the last 2-3months) i have got much more than i need  to retire in Msia but knowing my thrifty lifestyle that i have led in the last 40 years in Sydney, i think i will need a lot less than rm3k/week when i am really retired next year in Msia.
Also the fact that i am an easily contented person which is the most important (i feel) gives me even more confidence that i have enough to live on and i don't need to work more.

Added later: Lastly i would like to add this - i think i will probably need about rm5-7k/mth for the lifestyle i am currently used to and even though my retirement income were to skyrocket and hit rm30k/mth, i think my lifestyle will not change much from what i am doing now and also my satisfaction/happiness level will not have increased at all since i am already very happy with my lifestyle now.
*
Staying for short term is different from long term. Eating out may seems cheaper in kl but quality you get is lower also. Foods in supermarket in kl could be more expensive than Australia. Private hospital in kl is not cheap.

If one is willing to compromise quality for cheaper price, could consider ipoh, taiping, udon thani, ching Mai, etc.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Aug 12 2018, 04:32 PM
icemanfx
post Aug 16 2018, 03:48 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(ZeaXG @ Aug 16 2018, 10:36 AM)
Not sure if anyone shared this but this guy's blog (Mr Money Mustache) can be a good start to setting a frugal mindset.

Here's the introduction post in his blog...
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/...-one-blog-post/
*
If one could live like a monk in monastery, life would be frugal and could fi/re at early age; daily life is basically waiting to eat, sleep and die.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Aug 16 2018, 04:47 PM
icemanfx
post Aug 18 2018, 12:30 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(Garysydney @ Aug 18 2018, 06:33 AM)
Actually when you look at someone who is frugal/thrifty, you will find that with such attitudes, you will definitely cut down your living costs. I never thought (in my earlier days of my youth) that frugality was important for achieving early retirement/financial independence. I always thought it is crucial (absolutely compulsory!) to build income-producing assets (by gearing) and i have always lived with this attitude all my life until recently in the last couple years when i start to think more deeper about retirement expenses. No doubt building income-producing assets is important but if one doesn't have a very expensive lifestyle (usually because they are frugal), they require a lot less income-producing assets to sustain their lifestyle and hence can become FI/RE because any extra income will just add on to their buffer (as an insurance for periods where their expenses may grow due to unexpected events in life like major illness, etc...).

A lot of my friends in their 60s (in Sydney) are still working because they tell me they need A$55-70k/yr in expenses. All of them are professionals and they keep telling me they cannot retire because they don't have much income-producing assets. All have children who are in their 20s/30s and independent. They tell me that when their children were little, they just couldn't managed to save as everything comes in goes out immediately and they have been made redundant a couple of times. I tried to convince them their lifestyle is way too expensive (a lot of eating out - oldies like them like to drink good wine with some reds costing a couple of hundred bucks). When i analyze their lifestyle, i can easily see they can reduce their living costs by $15-20k/yr but they are accustomed to that kind of lifestyle so cutting down will become miserable/intolerable for them so they are happy to continue working. They tell me they will not stop working until they get retrenched.
*
There is no right or wrong with individual lifestyle. Fi/re is not meant for everyone and few could achieved. If one needs to work til late age to sustain his lifestyle is his choice. If they enjoy lavish lifestyle and willing to work, it is a fulfillment. Perhaps after they retired or made redundant, they will adjust to frugal lifestyle and live within their mean.

icemanfx
post Aug 19 2018, 12:21 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(Garysydney @ Aug 18 2018, 06:33 AM)
Actually when you look at someone who is frugal/thrifty, you will find that with such attitudes, you will definitely cut down your living costs. I never thought (in my earlier days of my youth) that frugality was important for achieving early retirement/financial independence. I always thought it is crucial (absolutely compulsory!) to build income-producing assets (by gearing) and i have always lived with this attitude all my life until recently in the last couple years when i start to think more deeper about retirement expenses. No doubt building income-producing assets is important but if one doesn't have a very expensive lifestyle (usually because they are frugal), they require a lot less income-producing assets to sustain their lifestyle and hence can become FI/RE because any extra income will just add on to their buffer (as an insurance for periods where their expenses may grow due to unexpected events in life like major illness, etc...).

A lot of my friends in their 60s (in Sydney) are still working because they tell me they need A$55-70k/yr in expenses. All of them are professionals and they keep telling me they cannot retire because they don't have much income-producing assets. All have children who are in their 20s/30s and independent. They tell me that when their children were little, they just couldn't managed to save as everything comes in goes out immediately and they have been made redundant a couple of times. I tried to convince them their lifestyle is way too expensive (a lot of eating out - oldies like them like to drink good wine with some reds costing a couple of hundred bucks). When i analyze their lifestyle, i can easily see they can reduce their living costs by $15-20k/yr but they are accustomed to that kind of lifestyle so cutting down will become miserable/intolerable for them so they are happy to continue working. They tell me they will not stop working until they get retrenched.
*
Your friends spend a$70k p.a on living expenses because their choose to and obviously they enjoy the lifestyle. They may complaint about need to work but in return they live what they want. They could adjust to frugal lifestyle after retired.

icemanfx
post Aug 19 2018, 12:31 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(Garysydney @ Aug 18 2018, 02:28 PM)
I don't quite understand what you might mean by 'fulfillment' but after 60+, most people work because they need to (because they don't have the funds to sustain their current lifestyle). I can tell these people dread their job because they complain they are all required to meet strict kpi(s). If given the choice of sitting at home and going to work, you can guess which they will choose. They are all wage-earners and they are unlike people with their own business where all profits generated goes to their own pockets and thus the sense of fulfillment comes in. I am 56 and i can tell you my job doesn't give me any fulfillment. I am strictly in there for the money. I don't have any stress at work because my kpi(s) are easily met and i am bored at work because i am so free which is why my wife keeps reminding me about me getting 'gaji buta'. However, not everyone is as lucky as me and a few of them comes to badminton to 'de-stress'. If they had got used to surviving with a cheaper lifestyle, i suspect a lot of them would have stopped work. After all, most of us migrated because we hope life would be better (and easier) in a foreign country - if we need to continue to work till we are in our seventies, would you think that migrating to Aust is a mistake? All the friends that i was referring to have all migrated to Aust from Msia in the 70/80s like me.
*
There is no free lunch, if one wants to have a lavish lifestyle needs to find income to sustain, dreading to work is a price to pay. If he find work is too heavy to bare, he will cut back, similarly for lifestyle. Similarly, if one choose to retire early, need to live frugally and save early and save more.

If one intended to retire at older age, amount of saving needed is less.

Whether to live a fulfilled or frugal life is subjective e.g what is a point to live like a monk til 100 y.o?

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Aug 19 2018, 12:51 PM
icemanfx
post Aug 19 2018, 04:55 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


In countries that have state pension e.g Australia, u.k and if state pension is enough to live a frugal life, one need not save more or invest more at early stage.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Aug 19 2018, 04:57 PM
icemanfx
post Aug 20 2018, 07:17 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,456 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(NightHeart @ Aug 20 2018, 06:32 PM)
As mentioned by @MUM, it depends on several factors. Is it doable? Yes of course but is it wise? That's something to consider.

Car loan is a very straight forward one, due to its fixed interest (nominal interest rate). So if you can generate more ROI than your car loan's Interest Rate, then just keep the car loan & continue using your extra funds to generate better returns. Can service your loan & can even get some extra pocket money for yourself.

Home loan is a bit different cause the rates aren't fixed, it's a bit more complex but same logic applies: If you can generate better ROI than your loan's interest rate, keep the loan & use the extra funds to generate more money for you.

There's good debts & bad debts, understand the difference & learn to leverage on good debts to bring you higher. A lot of people here has the mentality that debts = bad bad bad. Hope this opens up your vision a bit.
*
Given cheap and easy credit available since 2011; if consistent and high roi investment is easy to find there should be more than 3% of adults in this country have over us$100k net worth.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Aug 20 2018, 07:40 PM

8 Pages  1 2 3 > » Top
Topic ClosedOptions
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.2349sec    0.35    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 30th November 2025 - 03:40 PM