what law is that?? I tot it's very hard to get postgraduate training in uk or aus??

No idea.......... u'll have to wait for the great limeuu to answer ur question.

_____________________________________________________________________________

And, I've got something to ask here..... If i'm not wrong I did hear somebody saying that the graduates from unrecognized med schools can take the final year of NUS MBBS final exam and if passed, will be able to get registered in the littleland across the sea? They got to know this after the singhealth team visited us on friday.........

I was like at the same time~~ It'll be great for the local grads.... a pathway of venturing out of bolehland......

If you are from unrecoz med school, how can u pass NUS final year exams?

you never know......

Anyway, you may be one of the donkey pms freak who looks down on the local counterparts when you know exactly you're no where far in terms of academic and clinical ability and it's just that they don't have enough money to go to pms and while the rich gets to enjoy the backdoor provided by IMU so, shut up and recognized the fact here.

If you're not, then don bother what I've said lo, ok? XD

I'm just happy for the local grads, that's all. Of course I hope they can make it, if they really can go and pass the NUS final exam, it'll be something that makes all IMUians proud, isn't it?

What do u mean?

U mean ppl from unrecog med school are not bright enough? or that they cant sit for the exam anyway? explain please, it sounds degrading.

one should familiarise oneself with the relevant immigration rules and laws, of the places one goes to study, so one knows exactly what is possible and what is not.....it matters not in russia, indonesia, india, as nobody stays back, but is important in the oecd countries.....

one is a foreigner there, and hence subject to whatever rules and laws governing foreigners......including ability to find employment, and for doctors, ability to find training jobs.....ALL countries place work restrictions on foreigners .........

eg, non citizens/residents are prohibited from entering surgical based specialist training in oz......

eu rules compel uk health authorities to have to employ british citizens or eu citizens, before they can employ foreigners.....and in 2008, some foreign doctors had to leave as they cannot get a visa to work.....

fortunately, it appears there is a loophole in the eu directive, and 'international home students' (ie foreigners who study and graduate from british unis) are now allowed to stay on and find jobs after fy1 and 2, including training jobs, if they meet certain guidelines......

on the other hand, oz is running out of even houseman jobs, and may impose that they did once in the 90's.....prohibit non citizens/residents from taking an intern job.........

---

Added on September 26, 2010, 6:54 pmit is a known fact that different med schools have different policies in their selection criteria for new students......

some are VERY stringent, they select ONLY the best of the best......eg, try get into harvard, oxbridge, melbourne, and you will understand.....

on the other hand, there are many medical schools which operate as a business, and admit students based on ability to pay fees.....and there are MANY examples of very mediocre students being admitted......the newspapers are full of advertisements proudly proclaiming 'guaranteed places', 'spm 4 credits only needed', 'no entrance exams' etc........

msian is very generous in recognising foreign med schools, probably the country that recognises the MOST number of non-msian med schools.....even very poor quality one.....

therefore imagine those that msia does NOT recognise......how low down in the quality rank they are.....and these are exactly the ones who takes in very lousy students......

so yes, the fact is, many students and graduates from unrecognised med schools (and many recognised ones as well) are very weak, both in their intellect, and their training.......and they WILL have problems passing qualifying exams.....even the msian mmc exams, which is set at equivalent um year 4 level.......

hence it is a valid question.....can they pass the nus/smc exams.....?

This post has been edited by limeuu: Sep 26 2010, 06:54 PM

Why would a "bright" student enrolled in an unrecog med school and try the backdoor way to seek recognition?

He is not so "bright", no?

It is a valid question but somehow at the wrong page, i'd assume yeyechan is talking about IMU seremban counterparts and yes i think some of them are really GOOD even thought IMU seremban is an unrecognized med school.

---

Added on September 26, 2010, 7:24 pmMy answer for you is all posted in yeyechan's post, we all know how smart and how hardworking are some of our counterparts back home, and i feel it's unfair for them to be penalised (to stay home) coz they are not rich enough for PMS. I cant help but feel offended.

This post has been edited by tqeh: Sep 26 2010, 07:26 PM

the fact that people are in imu means they either failed to enter nus, or did not bother to apply as they know they are not good enough to be serious contenders for entry......

one of the top students from the recently concluded phase 1 did apply, and in spite of getting near perfect ter score, did not get offered......

That doesnt mean that they cant pass the final exam.

It just feels funny that every year SingHealth goes around the world to recruit malaysians and singaporeans (OZ UK) and mainly targetting the IMU ppl, and are literally begging the students to come home and yet they do not and will not recognise IMU seremban, and all of us know that most of our seremban friends are much better than us, in terms of competency and knowledge.

We're given an opportunity to get thru phase 1 together hence we have a rough idea how much we know and how much they know and seriously, it's not fair.

And hey, people who get into direct entry in most UK OZ med school cant get into NUS anyway, u know what i mean? U think the IMU-PMS ppl can get pass the NUS MBBS exam? i think the seremban ppl stand more chance than the PMS ones to be honest.

This post has been edited by tqeh: Sep 26 2010, 08:32 PM

there are 2 components to the potential competency of a new med graduate.......

the first is the innate ability of the person, ie the intelligence, aptitude and attitude.......which can be roughly ascertained by his pre-u results, and the surrogate of being accepted into a competitive medical school.......

the second is the actual training the person receives....

spore takes the view that the clinical component of the training is the most important, and demand reassurance it is conducted adequately, at the awarding university itself.....

that is why imu-pms is recognised, but not pmc-irish ones.....

i don't make the policy.....that's spore's decision.....

like i said elsewhere, spore under-train doctors, they are short of 250 or so a year.........and they have been quite successfully luring msians to work there, after they have been educated by msian parents or taxpayers at much cost......the fact that we are talking about this show how popular working in spore is to many msian med students...........so they can pick and choose........

this may all be moot in a few years, once the new ntu-imperial med school comes on line, and they produce enough for their own needs......

Yes Tqeh.... I'm refering to the seremban graduates.... Not all other students from the poorly educated medical graduates from those unrecognized universities such as...... cannot say la......

I believe Singapore has its reason to not recognize IMU MBBS degree....... Based on political reason....... I suppose many of the seremban graduates have the intention of going to overseas but it's just that their degree doesn't permit them to do so....... Imagine if Singapore recognizes IMU MBBS, what would happen? Even if it's not all, still more than half will opt to go to singapore for training rather than staying here and wait for the masters programme, isn't it? And remember, masters programme is quotaed, mainly for the bumis.............. While UM and UKM is recognized, why? It's because Singapore knows that no singaporean can enter our public U........... Or else, these singaporean NUS rejects will come to do our local program, hence end up with a degree registerable, no bonds to sg government, cheaper, who wouldn't want it?

I'm highlighting the fact that the seremban grads, some of them are really good and hardworking.... And they should be given a chance like what Singapore gives them to prove their ability.... Going to pms is good, but if you feel you are a step higher than the local counterparts, that's very wrong. A lot, in fact, most of the pms student, are so-so students....... There's nth to shout about with all the C's and B's, some with D's on the result slips....... And they are no where far from the people going to seremban......

And it doesn't mean you are damn good if you go to PMS...... Your results will reflect your ability of becoming a doctor........ Academic transcript will be provided to each medical students....... And for certain medical council like the SMC, they heck care where you're from........... They look through your transcript and see whether you're deemed a leecher, or a leader.......... When these leechers find no oced countries want them, eventually they come back to Malaysia........... That's why..... Further flooding occurs......

And if that any of "you", thinks that the IMU grads cannot pass the NUS MBBS final exam, by all means look down on them....... And don't ever let them see you in singapore because you're rejected by UK or OZ....... I bet my local counterparts will laugh their asses off at "you"........ While they become your seniors instead.... coz 1 year ahead of you mar.... They 5 years oni.......

And to that idiot from the post above us...... They are not seeking backdoor....... It's the NUS MBBS FINAL EXAM....... If anyone pass it, that means their MBBS(XXX)=MBBS(NUS)...... Nobody will seek a backdoor that may torture them as NUS is a no kidding university.......

This post has been edited by Yeyechan: Sep 27 2010, 03:33 AM

IMU-PMS students and IMU local students are taunting each other now?



wonder whether these doctors will compare with each other how many patients, how many surgeries they managed to cure in the future. and laugh at those who didn't get similiar chances.

official recognition of professional qualifications (including medical) is always a political decision by the individual countries......and often does not reflect on the quality or standard of other countries.....

eg, the usa does NOT recognise medical qualifications of any other country including other oecd countries.....

to the specifics of spore and imu, well it took them so long to recognise the 2 oldest medical schools in msia (um and ukm)......i don't see them recognising imu in the near future.....

finally, it's a very mixed bag of quality of students in imu (as with all ipts med schools), and this mixed bag extends to both the pms as well as the seremban stream......

it's difficult to accord full recognition to mixed bag unis and qualifications.....no?.....that's the reason lah.....

true to that..

even at prestigious medical schools..there will always be straight 4.0 students and near pass students..

Somtimes ppl find it difficult to accept established facts and statistics and rely on their preconceived ideas that they are good and highly intelligent.

What more, when you run of facts to sustain your arguments and start calling other ppl names!

the difference is that the near pass student at the top med schools will be dean's list students at those in the other end of the spectrum.......

I find ur comments taunting.

I'm not good, and some of my seremban counterparts are better, and I feel it is unjustified for them to be stuck in Malaysia. If there's a way for them to get to SG, i'm really happy.

Bear in mind : Most singaporeans studying in OZ/UK are NUS rejects, and they made it anyway to graduation.
Many IMU seremban students get straight As in A levels, or a high TER in SAM.
Many IMU-PMS students are below parr ( of coz many of them are A students - like what limeuu said- a mixed bag)

And i know how hard they work to get through the exams, and hospitals, and it is not as crussie as the PMS.

Oh yea, what's about the established facts and statistics? I dont think i'm good or highly intelligent, i'm definitely not, but SingHealth begs us to work for them, ironic isnt it?

I have no idea what do u know about medicine, but somehow it sounds like ur not from IMU or else you wont be saying such stuffs. Ur judging a medschool solely based on its reputation to a point you are judging other medschools as incompetent, and here i mean, IMU. (oh yes i'm biased)

---

Added on September 27, 2010, 11:42 amI take it as a sarcasm, seriously. I'm sorry but i cant help but feel offended. I dont think ur an IMU student, so be it.

I'm not talking about other "unrecognised med schools", u know all about them. If u are directing towards all "unrecognised med school" yea ur right, 90% of them will not make it for NUS final exam. Quite impossible lol. But as far as how i'm trained in the PMS, i'd say IMU seremban graduates are far more competent. And they are more likely to pass NUS exam than us.

Ur being to judgmental about some medschools. And yes i'm biased to IMU.

---

Added on September 27, 2010, 11:45 amI think yeye and me both are PMS ppl, but we both feel unjustified for our counterparts back home. And we feel that they are much better than us, but they dont share a common pathway with us anymore (eventhough we studied in the lecture hall together).

Hence when there's such news as passing the NUS MBBS thingie to get to singapore, of course i'm delighted. I'm happy! And they'll be half a year faster at least!

This post has been edited by tqeh: Sep 27 2010, 03:20 PM

can you please enlighten me on what's so bad to stay in Malaysia? from YOUR OWN POINT OF VIEW.

Care to elaborate on this further? Only apply to those who did all 5 years in UK or even those on IMU-twinning program?