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 AMD Ryzen, AM4 / AM5 Platform

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Bonchi
post Apr 5 2021, 01:37 PM

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QUOTE(TristanX @ Apr 5 2021, 01:01 PM)
Maybe its just compressed heat killing the hardware inside your small case. RTX 3080 dumping 340W of heat!

My exhaust fan with Noctua NF-A14 ippc3000 running at 2000rpm. Feels like hair dryer with my 5900X + RTX 3080.
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It's a sandwich layout so the heat wasnt transfered... the pump just died randomly without warning. Maybe a defect but it's an oem so no warranty. sigh...

But youve seen my case... it's actually very effecient at exhausting the heat. and it's also a dust magnet. using 2 gentle typhoons but since the 10400F is so bloody cold, the fan is set to a static 1500rpm else it will never spin.

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Apr 5 2021, 01:42 PM
Bonchi
post Apr 5 2021, 07:12 PM

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QUOTE(llk @ Apr 5 2021, 07:05 PM)
Yeah that is what i'm considering, an ITX build, i have never build that before.
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Its build is fun biggrin.gif .. itx boards to OC ram also shyok.
Bonchi
post Apr 6 2021, 11:01 PM

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QUOTE(sai86 @ Apr 6 2021, 10:57 PM)
i thought this only bring the idle to LOW and still able to get high boost as well? no? hmm.gif
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The way it works is by nerfing the boost. So you will have to sacrifice performance for this...

stuttering is caused by core parking due to the low power state. That is why at stock, AMD has high idle power to overcome this... altho you can mess with the powerplans manually and find your middle ground. I think I put my min state at 99% and it seems to work. (on zen2)

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Apr 6 2021, 11:03 PM
Bonchi
post Apr 8 2021, 10:07 PM

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QUOTE(iZuDeeN @ Apr 8 2021, 09:52 PM)
Just to update.. seems after upgrade to latest bios for MSI x570 tomahawk WiFi ; I don't get random BSOD

so all these while it's not cpu issue.. most ppl complaint whea error and rma the CPU... But most likely it is because driver issue on AGESA
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That's what ive been complaining since 2019. AMD makes good cpu but their AGESA messed it up. Regardless of how many time you change cpu, change motherboard, change ram etc, as long as the AGESA is bugged, it will stay bugged.
Bonchi
post Apr 12 2021, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(iZuDeeN @ Apr 12 2021, 08:54 AM)
even though much expensive than retail ; at least its not cut-throat price like gfx card
but if you willing to pay rm200 premium.. maybe can also ask local sellers
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local sellers all quote 1.6K with full bundle currently. Been surveying around to build a flight sim rig for a friend... but since it will have like 10+ USB control devices being plug in, that will be another consideration since there's still no news on the USB fix.
Bonchi
post Apr 12 2021, 10:52 PM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ Apr 12 2021, 09:54 PM)
Already fixed since AGESA 1201 Patch A.

Those complaining still not fixed need to check their devices instead.
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My friend one still kena leiii.... I cucuk my HDD then once in a while it will ding dong but this HDD is running fine on my rig. But it did improve la...... last time cannot detect at all, now can tahan like 10+ minutes.

but the USB type C works fine... so he cucuk HDD to the USB C port with an adapter.

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Apr 12 2021, 10:53 PM
Bonchi
post Apr 13 2021, 01:12 AM

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QUOTE(SSJBen @ Apr 12 2021, 11:10 PM)
Yesterday I just backed up 10TB worth of movies to a new drive, went without a hitch. Held speed at 150+MB/s constant, which is much better than before where it would fluctuate from 30 to 100MB/s.
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I guess just like forever, the severity of the issue varies between different setup.

My current intel rig is not flawless either, Or perhaps it is my MSI Z490 board.. there's one red USB port which is apparently exclusively for mouse with some mumbo-jumbo "advanced gaming" feature but it bugged with my mouse/keyboard lolol. gets "device descriptor request failed error". But it works with my DAC flawlessly so I ignored the issue.
Bonchi
post Apr 13 2021, 01:25 AM

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QUOTE(Andrewtst @ Apr 13 2021, 01:15 AM)
I connect plenty USB device and never face any ding dong issue, include external HDD, the copying in and out data is working perfectly fine. I had try in any type of USB up to USB-C.
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Maybe cuz my HDD is an old school USB 2.0 external sata case HDD but it works on my intel rig, so I dunno.

I lost this cable, so maybe if I used this then no problems on AMD... but at the moment it didnt work on my friend's AMD but it works on mine own rig.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


But glad to know that it has improved and AMD did try to fix the problem even though it took them 1 year to admit... so it should get better eventually... Now wonder if they will fix the idle boosting problem or not.

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Apr 13 2021, 01:33 AM
Bonchi
post Apr 13 2021, 01:38 AM

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QUOTE(TristanX @ Apr 13 2021, 01:34 AM)
It could be weary cables or ports. One of my USB 3.0 enclosure works fine after changing it. I bought powered 7 ports TP-link USB 3.0 hub and no more issue. Some of the free cables provided are crap quality as well.
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I suppose, it could be the board over stretched its ports count as well.

Speaking of which, I need more USB ports as well. this MSI Z490i really comes with too few ports at the back.
Bonchi
post Apr 20 2021, 12:58 PM

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QUOTE(thankyou @ Apr 20 2021, 12:46 PM)
The problem is w/ GPU right now... Even with reasonable Ryzen 5000x pricing... The lack of GPU is killing Ryzen sales altogether...
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If you getting full set, GPU is not a problem. More like 11400F and 10700/10700K/11700F kinda killed 5600x sales. No point getting 5600x when there's cheaper and same/faster intels. While 5800x is still abit too expensive at more than 10900k's current price and yet slower.

AMD has to at least slash RM300 to compete... which i hope they do laugh.gif
Bonchi
post Apr 20 2021, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(Skylinestar @ Apr 20 2021, 04:25 PM)
the greatest thing about pc building is that one can upgrade parts one by one down the road. the current situation kills this.
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yeap.. shittiest part right now. Glad I got my gpu before all the problems. Although if building a 10th gen intel rig still got some flexibility. 11th gen also suffer the same fate as ryzens. (except the waste of sand 11700K can be found everywhere)

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Apr 20 2021, 05:46 PM
Bonchi
post Apr 20 2021, 09:58 PM

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QUOTE(edmund_yung @ Apr 20 2021, 08:13 PM)
Will wait and see how low the price at Taobao is going to get, looks like stocks are back to normal in US and China.
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Stocks are ok in malaysia too. Just the msrp is not. Even in US it is sold around 400 USD on amazon I also just checked taobao... 1.3k is bundle prices. Alacarte still around 1.4-1.5k and it's subjected to SST when it arrives... so not much cheaper than buying locally.
Bonchi
post Apr 20 2021, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(edmund_yung @ Apr 20 2021, 10:44 PM)
Yeah, scalper seller still wanna try their luck as if the CPU is still highly sought after.
$299 at BestBuy
Here's one and another one Taobao store which you can buy without bundle.
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not really.. i got a friend work in PC shop, everyday still posting a few builds for customer on social media. Many are Ryzen 3600 and 5600X builds, while intel very few despite being a better choice at these price range. AMD marketing success drool.gif (but the GPU inserted into those rigs are pretty sad.... majority are 1660 or 3060 or 6700XT sweat.gif ...even going bundle, 3070 and 6800XT price is still too yahudi. )

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Apr 20 2021, 10:52 PM
Bonchi
post Apr 22 2021, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(yimingwuzere @ Apr 22 2021, 08:09 AM)
Any first hand experiences with B450 ITX boards? Building a SFF rig mostly for Davinci Resolve, and on a tight budget (since it's not meant for me). I currently have a Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro ITX, but I'm wondering if selling that and going for a B450 board can save money without running into a host of issues in the process. CPU that'll be paired with it is a 3700X.
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all B450 itx board has crappy VRM except the MSI B450I that I had and even that it was running pretty hot. Since you plan to use 3700X, you must get this MSI.
However it has a buggy bios that will eat away your pci-e X16 lane to X8 when an m.2 is used, which prompted me to change to a B550.
Bonchi
post Apr 22 2021, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(chrischiang @ Apr 22 2021, 10:36 AM)
may i know how to check whether the pcie is running with x16 or x8?
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can see from gpuZ. make sure to put some load on the gpu as well to make sure it is not idle.
Bonchi
post Apr 22 2021, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(yimingwuzere @ Apr 22 2021, 11:37 AM)
Sounds like the M2 lanes are pulled from PCIE x16 lanes for the GPU, which is weird since Ryzen is designed with 16 lanes for conventional PCIE cards and 4 for NVME.

I've ruled out the Asrock for crappy VRM + heatsink, as the B450 board looks like their B350 one just with a chipset change. Not sure about the Gigabyte or Asus ones though.
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gigabyte uses 4phase vrm that runs at 70C even on a 3600. Asus B450i uses twin 3X2=6 iinm so still weaker than MSI's true 6 phase but they cost as much as a B550i
Bonchi
post Apr 22 2021, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(yimingwuzere @ Apr 22 2021, 04:52 PM)
Yup this B550 would work great even with a 5950X, I'd reckon. Was wondering if trading down for a B450 board is worth saving a few hundred bucks, since this is a budget build. Guess I'll stick to it.
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Just stick to the B550I. there's no good B450 ITX (heck even for ATX, the only board can pakai is the tomahawk). the max they could go is a 3600 while only the MSI can handle the 3700X... these B450 ITX boards are mostly strictly designed for APU.. thus probably why my MSI B450I had issues on the PCIE lane.

everytime I heard reddit people say going amd can just get a cheap 3600+b450 mobo now and upgrade to 5950X in the future.... I laughed inside.

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Apr 22 2021, 05:07 PM
Bonchi
post Apr 24 2021, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE(cwk_lowyat @ Apr 24 2021, 01:53 PM)
This works so well!
Previously my 5800x rise to 60C, drawing 23W during light browsing session (Youtube/Facebook) with balanced power plan,
what annoy me the most is the constant fan noise! vmad.gif  vmad.gif  vmad.gif
I don't even want switch to stock power save mode because it will stutter even on light browsing session. dry.gif
After the power plan installed, it only rise to 50C and draw 6W during browsing, more importantly, the fan is practically inaudible laugh.gif  laugh.gif
Thanks, AMD should come with this as stock power plan
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The outcome differ from user to user. Some will have massive performance loss in heavy loads if keep to this power plan. So some users actually toggle between diff power modes for diff task which is damn mafan, but yeah, either you do that or live with stupid high light load temps.

Amd cant make this default because users will sure complain when they see lower performance. So they put performance over efficiency.

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Apr 24 2021, 05:49 PM
Bonchi
post Apr 25 2021, 11:25 PM

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QUOTE(1024kbps @ Apr 25 2021, 11:07 PM)
no strange at all, architecture specific optimisation is needed for each generation of processors to make full use of the cpu capability.
developer can just use the compiler preset to fine tuning, but inside has a lot of things like enabling and disabling specific parameters. each generation of cpu has different cpu errata that are required developers to read and disable some stuff to avoid the program behave strangely after enabling optimization
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Not really, they are all x86 and should be completely compatible. The optimization should be done by the microcode, not the dev.

These are more like proprietary stuff which will be a pain in the ass to implement and totally not worth the effort unless youre creating something platform exclusive like for the xbox and ps5.
Bonchi
post Apr 26 2021, 02:21 AM

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QUOTE(1024kbps @ Apr 26 2021, 12:19 AM)
yes, depend how much of the optimization you wish to enable, you can just enable i686 and it will run fine from i686 until the latest Rocket Lake and Zen 3, but you wont be able to make a full use of your cpu.
normal application can just use generic optimization aka Pentium 4 or i686, but for some program optimization is needed, trust me dude, like video encoder, operating system.
i've been compiling stuff since x264/ffdshow era until now, i compile gentoo linux lol

compiler optimization still no match for hand tuned optimization (assembly code), without it the program will run 10 times slower.

AMD and Intel doesn't really hide anything, both always publish their cpu optimization, as well as errata guide in PDF.
one of the example https://developer.amd.com/resources/develop...guides-manuals/
Both have developer portal for a reason.

Most program will run fine and is transparent to end user, but internally they detect all the stuff in your PC and enable/disable stuff to make full use of your cpu.
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Thus as gonna give amd a minus point here. For intel side they tend to use industry standard and not so much of being as machine dependent as AMD. At the moment it's quite a pain to work with AMD because serious lack of framework and api support.

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