really? If that's the case, how about other medical schools in Russia/ Ukraine? She heard that MMA is already the cream of the crop

they only reason why these med school will take in students, is they want your money.....and they don't particularly care how the product will be, since none will ever stay back to work and treat russian people.........the spectrum of students taken in is wide, from the very good to the very poor.......and it is widely known that pass marks can be easily arranged in exams......and they take in people from spm, which is really a no no........

Actually my counsin has pretty good results and she can afford to go to AUS/ UK. I guess AUS/ UK would be a much better choice then?

even if you have the rm1mil or so required, it is very difficult to get into oz med schools, due to the few places available for international students (half the med schools are graduate programme)(>ter98 needed)........it is easier to get into british or irish med schools, as there are a lot more places available (AAB will get you into lower tier med schools).........

the reason why these countries are so strict in the selection process is because a substantial portion of these students stay back, and settle in these countries, and thus they are actually training doctors for their own use, but financied by the students themselves.........

that is why people choose to go elsewhere like russia, india, indon etc......easier to get in......

Specialists in HTAA where I am currently posted at always condemns russian and ukrainian grads regardless wtr they were JPA scholars or self sponsored. So be ready to be the target of prejudice when u start working.. Personally I dont think its fair cause one of the houseman I know who graduated in Russia said that they were not allowed to do any procedures and only got to do very limited amount pf practice on their physical examinations which is why they are less competent as compared to their peers.. The specialists all just jump into the conclusion that they are of bad quality..Kesian..

less competent means bad quality........no?

poor training also means bad quality.......

sometimes, it gets so bad, it's almost like being a medical school all over again, having to teach these 'doctors' from scratch......things they should have learnt in the early years of med school........that is just NOT acceptable......they are supposed to provide service, NOT get retrained after the med school failed their job.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 5 2008, 11:53 PM

But we cant really blame them..they were sent there by JPA (in the case of the houseman I was talking about). JPA should screen the University abit more before sending students cause theyre wasting a bunch of brilliant students with bad training.

it is not jpa that accredit the med schools, but mmc........and recognition of foreign med schools is based as much on political agenda, as on quality.......

good student + good school = developed world......selection of students done VERY carefully......

good student + bad school = bad doctor, but with time, these good students will un-learn all the bad habits from their bad med school, and can eventually become good doctors.......

bad student + good school = usually does NOT happen, as good schools always select very carefully...if any slipped in, they will usually flunk out.......

bad student + bad school = many of doctors from 3rd world countries where selection is often based on being able to pay the fees..........including msia/russia/ukraine/india/indonesia etc......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 6 2008, 12:19 AM

agreed...
I have frens from art stream doing medic in 3rd world countries!
My classmates from the science stream who didn't make it into medic were damn pissed off cause unlike the arts stream ppl, they couldn't afford it and had to settle for whatever they got.
Its hard when everything is so politic-based. Malaysia should not focus too much on producing adequate doctors if it compromises on quality.

by the way..
bad student+ good school= ME!!
should really buck up...really wanna be someone people wont hesitate to depend on when i start working.

After getting so much bad feed back for russia/ukrain medic school ... i guess i will tell my cousin to go for UK/AUS then. Hope that she can gain admission.

Just recently, a group of students from Ukraine (Msian) came and did elective in Hospital Melaka. When i talked to one of them, he told me they got screwed by the HOD of Surgery in Melaka GH on their first day of posting, just because they are from Ukraine. Seriously, pity them.
Btw, are they really that incompetent? I have seen some really good ones working in other departments.

if a med school has a good reputation, everyone will expect graduates to be well trained and of caliber, eg someone from melb u, ucl..........

on the other hand, it is well known that russian/ukraine/indonesian/indian med schools are very variable in standards, in their admission policy, in the caliber of students accepted.........and the whole med school (and even country) is thus tainted.....and ALL graduates will be looked upon with suspicion........and individuals will have to PROVE their competency........

of course there will be good ones, there are jpa scholars with good spm results, and private students with straight a1's in spm there too.....they can still potentially make good doctors, especially after they start work, and relearn medicine on the job........just as there are people without a single a........who may stumble and struggle through their 4 years (now 5 years) gov service ..........but how is anyone to know which category a new doctor is from these places.......? till he/she proves him/herself?

---

Added on August 6, 2008, 9:11 ami should add that HOD assumes ultimate liability for the department, therefore a mess-up by juniors will also make the HOD liable....and an incompetent and potentially dangerous doctor is a liability instead of an asset, and someone has to 'supervise' these doctors all the time, in reasing the work of others in the team.....so you can understand why they are hard on incompetent 'doctors' some of whom should not have become one........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 6 2008, 09:11 AM

Ahh. Indian students would be pissed if they were to read that. Perhaps you've forgotten about some of the top med schools in India, being one of them is the premier AIIMS. An average of 75,000 students takes the entrance exam annually and the institute ultimately only takes in 50 students ( 5 international inclusive). What's more, it's clinical exposure is unmatched-the hospital treats millions of patients annually.
Besides, all of the top med schools needs its applicants to pass the entrance exam for admission.

---

Added on August 6, 2008, 2:19 pmFrom the thread "Studying in Australia", I know that you're from Melb U , right?

This post has been edited by blackrobin: Aug 6 2008, 02:19 PM

msians students do NOT usually get into the top indian med schools. places are few, and it is very difficult to get in.......the most popular ones are like manipal, kastuba etc, which as a measure of quailty, are not in the list of recognised indian med schools in spore (smc: https://www.smc.gov.sg/html/1153709442948.html)........

KMC is not in the list i think it's because of the de-recognition issues that happened a few years back. It has caused the uni's reputation to drop quite significantly.

But, the problem has been overcome and the college has now regained full recognition from the IMC. This recognition thing changes all da time. KMC could be listed in the SMC in years to come! MMMC hmm it needs longer time, i guess (i'll be a MMMC student soon:))

Singapore is short of houseman, and a constant supply of fresh-grads from a neighboring country is most certainly welcome. While UM and UKM are the supplier, we cant doubt the quality of the students-they are all 4.0 pointers regardless of the source, if you know what I mean - or can we?
The weird thing is USM is left out.

I wish study med in oz uni but 'not enuf' money ..haihz.. lol

i can assure you even with money, most applicants will NOT get a place in undergraduate oz med school.....eg, last year, there were over 600 international applicants (from all over the world, china and india the most) for 16 places in adelaide.....

the odds are better at unsw with 50 slots, although many of these will be taken by their foundation students, and melb u, with 70 places, but too late, the last undergraduate intake was this Feb.......

Personally..I think half the blame should go to the student too. Cant only blame the Uni. I've seen H.Os from UKM or USM who are so incompetent and to top it off lazy. Not all but some. Theres this one classic example of a H.O yg datang from a good school but cannot even perform simple things like delivering babies or even doing venous cannulation yet he has the cheek to dump the job onto medical students instead of practicing. On top of it all, he makes the med students do his job sampaikan the staff nurses keeps saying to us, "adik, kenapa adik pulak yang buat kerja ni. Houseman tu mana? Biar dia yang buat. Semua orang tau yg dia tu malas buat kerja". Terkejut gila. We all thought that he asked us for favours cause he was tired..post call ke apa. Rupanya he also berani nak suruh staff nurses do his job. We were all so pissed off we just refused to help him after that. Nak kata tak pandai...tak boleh. He graduated med school from a good school. So in the end the attitude of the student is what matters. U will decide wether u wanna suck like ur school or ur gonna break the mode..

the question of work attitudes and work ethics is a completely different issue from caliber and training of med students.....please don't get confused.....

True.. but that HO couldn't even deliver babies and do venous cannulations and we med students had to do it for him.. The specialists always complain about him and one even said, "awak ni graduate dari Russia ke?" during a ward round cause he messed up so many things.. What Im trying to say here is that bad schools can produce good students and good schools are capable of producing bad ones. Its up to the student to decide his future. So we cant blame the school completely.

KMC Manipal is consistently being ranked top 10 in India. Quality might not be as good as AIIMS but is pretty solid if you ask me. It's weird that Singapore recognizes medical colleges which are ranked lower than Manipal.

Btw, from what i've observed, not all good medical schools are recognized by Singapore, eg medical schools in Taiwan (only 2 medical schools are recognized so far)

I think what blackrobin meant was he has the results but not the moolah

Btw, out of curiosity, is there any OZ med school taking in students with SAM TER 95?

Btw, blackrobin, are you on JPA scholarship? MMMC is now filled with JPA scholarship students. Self funded students have less places allocated for them.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 6 2008, 10:38 PM