Whatever la, let them have fun

I thought Deception from Dan Brown.

Finception! From Finance

It is not about big or small sum issue, sometimes it is about petty issue.

In investment world, you can't possible "maximise the return" one, aka try to find lowest to buy and highest to sell.

For long term investment, you take a bigger picture and more long term view instead.

Eg.
You correctly bought a stock/UT that worth Rm10 today, if looking back, there is not much a difference if you had bought it at RM1.00 or 1.05.
A long term and bigger picture, is that you made a right decision that you had bought it, be it RM1.00 or 1.05.

Same with property, today your property worth RM1 mil, does it matter you bought it 500k or 520K?
The matter one is you made the decision to buy when it was 500k or 520k.

You don't try to "maximise the return, so that you must buy it at RM1.00 or Rm500k, as in the process of trying to "maximise" the return, you might miss the opportunity to buy it entirely, which you left with no profit.

So from here, we can see, it is the future prospect of current investment that matter the most. Not whether current level is lowest or not.
If the investment has no future, aka over the long term may make a loss, buying at the lower than your friend also no use one. Making less loss than your friend, it is still a loss.

I agreed on maximise return in term of putting FD in a bank that has higher rate, yes, this is correct way to maximise return, because this "investment" we know the outcome aka you will be fully paid on the interest.

But in investment that full on uncertainty, we can't possible maximise the return unless we have a crystal ball to know the exact timing and future outcome.

Cherry picking, and focus on too petty issue sometimes is not good "behaviour" for investment over long term.
We can't possible earn every cent one that available. Instead a bigger picture and long term view may provide way bigger return.

U old farts / eat lotsa salt also talk your wavelengths ma
welcome to the generation gap uncle

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Oct 8 2016, 07:11 PM

Earlier, Xuzen commented that the difference in returns between e-GIA-i, bond fund & CMF is not a lot while his India fund went up 3% in a week. But not everyone is comfortable investing in India fund as the risk is higher. So, for these people, it is not wrong for them to find the right vehicle to get them a higher return for their hard-earned money even if the returns are just slightly higher. For e.g., some people would rather put their money in e-GIA-i instead of CMF because the rate is higher. I know the difference is not much but I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Some people want to put their money into bond funds & get higher potential returns for slightly more risk. Nothing wrong with that either. For the big taikors here, the extra 1 or 2% might be negligible to them but for many, that is not the case.

I agree with you that it is not possible to maximise the return. That was not what I meant. I agree that we cannot predict the future. I never mentioned that I support timing the market. However, there are certain things that can be seen in the present and therefore can be controlled. Things like lower sales charge, for e.g. Some might say "Why bother with the savings in sales charge, only 2-3% difference. The most important thing is whether the fund is good or not. The returns will be more than that anytime". We cannot control future returns but we can control the current cost. By minimising the cost, we increase the net returns or at the very least, reduce the losses.

Haha.

Btw, budget 17 coming le... Got impact on MY market Liao?

If stock people like the budget, rally lo. If they don't like, all red lo = buying time.

U guys don't seem to get xuzen's sarcasm.

He's indirectly telling, guys who are comfortable with FDs and eGIA don't belong here. Come here talk bulls and cocks then at the end chicken out...come for what?

Investments are not for u.

btw when is the budget 2017 coming out?

The Government is going to table its budget on Oct 21 ...........
http://www.thestar.com.my/business/busines...7-expectations/

Since last discussion about the high correlation between CIMB APDIF and RHB AIF, would it be good if I keep APDIF and drop AIF?

Trying to have a fund for emerging market but the only better one I see is in fixed income sector, namely RHB Emerging market bond fund, which some very correlated with RHB ATR.

Seeking for advise on the comparison between the 2

p/s: Do I just need to register morningstar free account to analyze the correlation between 2 funds?

This post has been edited by T231H: Oct 8 2016, 10:23 PM

Every one also wants the biggest bang for their money, those who cant do it have to settle for less,
fair and square




From RM1.00 you push it up to RM10, that is a 900% increase!
You are 'diluting' the effect of the difference many times.
how many years needed to get that 900%? diluting it more.
Start with only RM100k can become a millionaire will take how long?


missed opportunity aside, you may think the difference is only RM20k. Even RM20k is significant difference to me. But you have underestimated that difference-how many years to reach RM1M?, loss from opportunity cost, RM20k today might be RM80k later.



How many UT funds have NAV price going up straight line without fluctuations that if we dont buy,
we would miss it ...............?



some also implied over-analysing the SD, Sharpe etc is like cherry picking too, so no need hard and fast rule so to speak.

Put aside missed opportunity, a 0.5% difference is the same be it in FD, UT or stocks. For every 1 million invested you
can lose out RM5000 for it

This post has been edited by guy3288: Oct 9 2016, 12:45 AM

Even Rm1 become Rm2 over some years in investment, buying at RM1.00 or RM1.05, it doesn't matter much one.
One can cherry picking of earn more 5% or so in maths, but, as said before, we can't earn every single cent in investment world.

When the price was RM1.05 time, we don't know it will up or down to RM1.00 before going to RM2.00, it may or may not.
Investment is about real time decision making, not looking back history to see, ya, RM1.00 get me the max return, I should go in at RM1.00, nor I know it will become RM2.00 later on.

At real time when the price was RM1.05, you need to make a decision to buy or not, you don't know it will become RM1.00, so that you can max the return. If one is cherry picking and wait for RM1.00, it may gradually going up to Rm1.10, RM1.20, RM1.30, never back to RM1.00, so you never bought it.
It becomes a entirely miss opportunity to reap the profit of RM2.00 or RM1.50 over the long term, instead of potential just less 5% profit.
No profit vs less 5% profit, we don't need math to know which one is a better choice.

Investment is not about wishing to see 100K become 1 mil next year or two.
It is about growing wealth and compounding effect, whether it may become 1 mil or no, nobody knows.

Yes, UT NAV won't go straight line up, but if one has such a mindset to maximise profit and over-analysed the "max return", one tends or may miss the opportunity entirely, because one is constantly searching for bottom and top, which everyone knows it is impossible in investment.

The point I want to highlight is such a mindset and behaviour may affect poor decision making in investment world, not about the mathematics.
We don't know the bottom, we don't know the top, we don't know it will rise from RM1.05 or Rm1.00 or the fund may forever make a loss as well.

One may disagree with my opinion, but trying to max the return is a tiring process that a lot of time resulted more miss opportunity and lesser profit instead reaping more profit, this is my experience in investment world for decades.

The maths are all correct, no doubt, but the maths only correct, because the outcome already known.
While in investment world at real time, we do not know.

Since they are different asset classes, would you recommend that for people like me who RSP every month, to keep CIMB APDIF to take advantage of the larger volatility compared to RHB AIF?

If I am considering to shift from RHB AIF to RHB EMBF instead of RHB ATR, I can't really understand the region break as there is a lot of others region that neither FSM nor morningstar is helpful in breaking down on that

Anyone can kindly enlighten me more on the region breakdown in RHB EMBF (I know is emergin market, but with 67% others, is kinda really hard to understand more )

p/s: noticed that the target fund of RHB EMBF, united emerging market bond fund, the SGD and USD class performance were similarly to a bond fund. While the RHB counterpart performace similar to equity.

Is this due to different currencies' appreciation/depreciation at different time that results in such a different in return and volatility?

This post has been edited by AIYH: Oct 9 2016, 11:28 AM

What are the charges incurred to maintain FSM account?
fyi, recently registered with FSM, and subscribed to the PRS.

Was charged RM10.60 (not sure whether this is one-off, or per annum).

What about the other charges? For argument's sake, i am not planning to increase/transfer/switch/decrease anything.

That is the PPA account opening fee (RM10 + GST) charged by PPA (one time charge)

For future calendar year, you will be charge fund annual fee (RM8 +GST) for each fund that you invest during the calendar year (meaning if you make contribution for fund A and didnt make contribution for fund B in 2017, fund A will be charge annual fee but fund B won't)

For each new PRS fund you invest, their first calendar year will be exempted from annual fee

I see every post so long I also don't feel like reading already. Lol

This post has been edited by T231H: Oct 9 2016, 12:37 PM