Thank You Michael J.

May I know what are the causes for the 'natural' death?

yifie:

Lack of follow-through.

There is no point creating a business/industry if the support mechanisms aren't there to ensure long term sustainability. If DOA/MOA/MARDI wants to DEVELOP a business/industry, they have to cover every damn aspect of that business/industry, and not just pockets of it.

Look at Malaysia's palm oil industry. They have responsible entities governing the entire value chain, from seed producers, to grower, to millers and refiners, and even exporters. In amongst this core value-chain, the periphery companies are inserted to support the entire industry, and the industry in turn ensures survival of the periphery entities (eg. agro-chemical industry, fertilizer & compost companies, precision agrinomics businesses etc.).

In the case of vermiculture, what DOA/MOA/MARDI did was create a buzz, tell participants they can do this-this-this with their end products, and then left them hanging to find their own way. I mean, come on, it is a budding business and they expect the pioneers to know what to do? Most of them know next to nuts about managing a business, or how to properly market a product. Fine, maybe 10% of them would find some way to survive, but it means a death rate of 90% of these agro-entrepreneurs.

This is the same thing with goat breeding, cow breeding, and those obscure freshwater fish and marine crab programs. And then there's the massive hydroponics and fertigation fiasco. Not to forget, the mushroom farming projects they initiated at so many places. How many of these programs actually succeeded? And amongst those success cases, how many of them actually received the needed help from DOA/MOA/MARDI?

The likelihood is that those who succeeded had resorted to finding their own way, either by engaging an external consultant, or working with someone having adequate success and experience.

So to put it simply, if it is a DOA/MOA/MARDI initiated project or program, there is a high likelihood of it suffering a similar progression. I'm not saying that every damn project is a total and utter failure, it's just that the odds are not in favor of success.

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Added on August 23, 2012, 5:24 pm



It's really scary to read about the looming food crisis... I guess it is understandable why so many people are turning to crime and illegal activities. Obviously, that does not mean it is justified.

But seriously, the percentage of people not being able to afford food in developed countries is on the rise. Just taking the United States of America as example, about 18.2% people there are not able to afford the food they need. I'm not talking about hardcore poor here, although they certainly make up a significant portion of that figure; the figure includes families from middle-class, fixed-income groups.

To put this into perspective, 1 in 4 people in the US cannot afford the food they need. The food they need to survive does not include bread, cheeses, fresh fruits etc., but staples like grains/cereals, milk, vegetables, etc. And the No. 1 thing most from this group can't afford is: Meat.

Yes, meats like beef, mutton, fish, chicken, etc. They cannot afford it anymore.

Is this a good or bad thing? Bear in mind, this is only the US we're talking about here; we haven't even begun looking at the EU, or Latin America, or even Asia.

And the news just gets worse. 2 in every 100 Chinese citizen cannot find a job. This may not look bad, after all it's like only 2%. But bear in mind, China has a working-age population of nearly 660,000,000; so that works up to 26,000,000 people. That means 26 million people who are competiting with the rest of the world for jobs.

We all know that without a stable income source, it is quite difficult to gain ends meet. Which makes the food crisis problem all the more dangerous. Less food available equals to higher food costs, which could lead to many other undesirable effects within society.



Let us open up this thread for discussion. Does anyone have any genuine idea of how to mitigate this problem? No need to find a solution which works on a global/national scale; even a solution that would result in a reduced household food bill would have a tremendous impact on society.

My first suggestion(s):

i. Home growing - To educate people to grow their own food in their homes. And not just simple container growing for novelty sake. I do mean growing sufficient veg and animal proteins to offset about 10%-15% of the monthly family food bill at least.

ii. Community farm plots - Where a group of people pool their resources and time to tend a shared plot of land used to grow vegetables/fruits/animal protein for the group. All members will have to contribute their inputs, and not just monetary, but most crucially the time and labor needed. Community farm plots should ideally off-set about 20%-25% of the family food bill each month.

iii.

This post has been edited by Michael J.: Aug 23 2012, 05:29 PM

hi guys, like optimus_shine

I am too interested in rearing ducks instead of other livestocks.

how good is ducks in the local market, can we sell ducks eggs like chicken eggs without need to salted it? do supermarkets buy duck eggs?

Can I sell the ducks after it reach its maximum age for egg producing? still good to old ducks?

how hard is it to breed own ducks using incubator?

is there enough support for duck rearing from the govenrment?

thanks

Wow, synthetic resin? Let's hope there are still a market for natural resin, wood and roots. Also with natural resin, it may still develop on the 'artisan' aspect. Manage to contact a seed supplier in Thailand. Shall be collecting 1 kg of seeds during my break in Chiang Mai, early September.

Yes, shall keep you guys update on my progress from time to time.

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Added on August 23, 2012, 7:37 pmHI ah_suknat,
Welcome.

Incubator
Bought an incubator back in June 2011. Ran it twice, no success yet. 1st time, total failure. 2nd time managed to reach an almost hatching stage, where I can feel the unborn chick kicking, egg rocking. Unfortunately I had to be away for a while, left it under the care of a friend. Went I came back, I was told it didn't hatch. It was so disheartening and may me sad. Up to now, still have no find the courage to try again yet.

On the bright side, my chicken is doing it the natural way, and I don't get any blame or guilt for any failures. Of course, am always trying to improve the successful rate.





This post has been edited by MrFarmer: Aug 23 2012, 07:37 PM

Can anyone share the vermiculture experiences, especially on castings harvesting and how many (ratio) soil should use in bin?

THANK YOU

Mr Farmer:

As with many other things, there will be those who'd prefer natural grown produce over industrial/factory mass produced stuff. Take vanilla essence for example. The real deal can cost up to 10 times the price of synthetics, and there are still lots of people and industry who prefer the real thing.

As for the incubator, that's one of the main problems. Once you start the process, you have to keep monitoring it or risk losing entire batches. For me, I prefer the use of broody bantams or silkies. I've hatched various species of birds with 100% hatch rates using this method, including guinea fowl, quail, ducks, other chicken breeds.

I just found a lot of information about sabah snake grass.

You can check at http://www.isabahsnakegrass.com/

ah_suknat:

Sorry, I think some of us might have overlooked your posting.

(i) Duck is a niche market. Even Chinese who regularly consume ducks only select certain duck breeds and at certain seasons for use. Sabah and Sarawak's Foo Chow community are some of the biggest consumers of duck, likewise the Foo Chow communities in Sitiawan, Teluk Intan and elsewhere. Yes, you can sell duck eggs just like chicken eggs. But it is a specialist market, as not many people are familiar with duck eggs, and will be hessitant to use it in their daily consumption. Supermarkets do not normally sell duck eggs, but it could just be a case of no supply (bear in mind, supermarkets do require a certain secured quantity/supply, and a price that is commonly below standard wholesale prices).

(ii) Hatching ducks in an incubator is just as difficult as hatching chickens in an incubator. Of course, that's assuming you're doing this small scale (not more than 100 hatchlings each time). If you're going to go industrial scale, then you will need the right training and experience.

(iii) Yes, and no. Yes, the government is supportive of duck farming. There are many specialized incentives and tax breaks available, you just need to read it up from LHDN. And no, because the agencies and organizations (including banks like AgroBank) tasked to support such agri venture are too illetarate on the matter to provide the right kind of support. Eg, bank loans for agribusinesses. AgroBank's top management were recently changed because the bank failed to disburse the billions of ringgit worth of funds allocated by the government to support agribusinesses. The reason for the failure? Because AgroBank did not understand the business ideas of most applications, and they were also extremely hessitant to give loans to farmers (who they viewed as illeterate in managing a business).

This post has been edited by Michael J.: Aug 27 2012, 09:45 AM

hi michael J and lowyat agri-entrepreneurs

heres some pics I wanna share out in my mom's farm











http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l31/ah_s...nt=MVI_0884.mp4 (video )

the land is about 2 acres big, planted some corns with it,
my mom just started 2 month ago, the 60 adult ducks (in pictures and video) are 2 month old and hopefully will make some eggs in 2 more months.

few days ago we just got an extra 400 ducklings.(in the picture)

heres a rough sketch of the said land


as the number grows, we would like to overhaul the system, the newly proposed duck shelter is to be placed at the back of the land and the ponds just next to it, the pond is connected with flowing small river so tht it stays clean. the duckling house remain the same place. the frontage of the land will use to plant crops like ubi and corn to feed the ducks.

as I will be pumping money into the venture, I need serious advice how to make it happen, how I wish brother Michael can come to my farm to have a look

my current concern is those ducks are big eater!400 ducklings can consume 10kg of baja in 2 days!

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Added on August 27, 2012, 12:53 pmmy other concern is how am I gonna market those eggs? If I can produce 4-5k of salted eggs per day, how am i supposed to sell them all? do I have to go all the kedai runcits and super markets one by one and ask if I can supply them salted egg?

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Added on August 27, 2012, 3:25 pmI just call up jabatan veterina and ask if theres is any assistance for usahawan itik, they say no, zzzzz, we are all by our self, I wonder whats the use of all this government department, makan gaji buta only

This post has been edited by ah_suknat: Aug 27 2012, 03:25 PM

ah_suknat:

Thank you for the invite, but unfortunately with the way things are going at my workplace, I won't be able to travel much for the rest of the year. I blame certain senior officers and their fickle-mindedness for all the mess.

Anyway, on duck feed. On average, you will need to feed about 180g of food per kg duck per day. Assuming each duckling weighs about 70g, you'd have about 28kg of duck there. So the feed is about 5kg per day. That'd be about right if you have week-old ducklings.

Ducks ARE big eaters, and messy too. They consume about 30g extra feed per kg live weight on average compared against chickens. They love to mix water into their food, so quite a bit tend to get lost if they are fed too close to the pond. I assume you're using feed troughs. But you can reduce the feed cost by using forage crops.

Ubi and corn are not bad, so would duckweed or water millfoils. But ducks need good protein sources. Slugs, snails, earthworms etc all make good sources of protein for ducks. Also insects like crickets, grasshoppers, or mealworms would be great. If you find a place with excess water hyacinths (keladi bunting), they make good feeds also.

Also do bear in mind that for egg production, you need to add some calcium into their diet. Again, snails are great sources, but other edible calcium sources would do just well (bonemeal etc.).


As for marketing, unfortunately this is really dependent on the farmer. If you have to go to each and every single kedai runcit, then you have to do it. Start small; with your few hundred ducks, you should eventually be looking at 400 eggs a day. Build the reputation, develop the networking, and gradually grow your business.

The other way is to target markets that have yet to be tapped into. Like supermarkets, chain pastry businesses (those making Chinese sweet pastries), maybe even frozen food businesses (like frozen curry puff businesses) etc. Heck, you may even target those Nyonya kuih businesses since some of the best kuihs require the use of duck eggs.


On the vet assistance part, can't really blame them although they should have explained instead of outrightly saying "no". The fact is, there is a severe shortage of vets, even in private practice. Not many people today fancy the idea of sticking their arm into the ass of a cow/pig/goat, nor are many keen about walking ankle deep in muck visiting farms. To make things worse, the curriculum for vets in Malaysia is so changed, that many of the vet grads in this country don't really know what they're doing. They may know how to treat a cat or dog, but give them a chicken or a goat, and they draw a blank expression.

I speak of this from experience, as there are 3-4 livestock companies under the organization I'm working with. None of them could get qualified/proper vets to work with them, and had to import the experts from Indonesia.

This post has been edited by Michael J.: Aug 27 2012, 04:30 PM

The quality of some tree germinated from Musang king seed or D2 seeds. The trees are not growing very well.



Other trees show growing a little bit well, however, I don't know why the leaf show yellowish.



Metalazyl is on the way. My musang king tree, please don't give up.



Hi MJ,

I support the home growing idea which I am started also. currently I am growing some chilli padi in front of my house.

Hi guys I am interested to do hydroponic farming on a a commercial scale. Meanwhile I have started a little drip system at my home.

Why is it that hydroponic in Malaysia is not popular, even on this forum not many are talking about it.

The other thing is once I produce the fruit or vege how do I go about marketing it? Thanks all!

thanks for the replies. I bought the ducklings at rm2.5 from jabatan vetenari, they are low on stocks so only manage to get 100, I bought the 300 from private at rm4 each, you think the price reasonable?

Aas food cost is the main cost, what is the best way to feed them with the lowest cost possible? without compromising their egg laying performance? Do you think left over food I get from schools and restaurant is ok for them?

are you experience with large scale duck farming? what is the best shelter layout design to build? with the land that I draw, what would you advice on the layout of the farm?

thanks again

Hi Binyamin,
I guess hydroponic is not commercially feasible yet (here), but I guess some day it shall be. Malaysia still has lots of land for agriculture. Had did some reading on hydroponic, but am not ready for it yet as I'm also new in planting. Am learning the traditional way first, planting in soil and finding it very challenging.

Market Farm produce is just like any other marketing. Only that most are perishable / semi-perishable (do your initial study well). Your logistic has to be right. Firstly identify your market. Distribution, wholesale, retail. Also you need to look at the volume that you are producing or targeting. Initially you'll need to do lots of running around, just like any other products. Persistence shall make the day.

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Added on August 27, 2012, 7:40 pmHi ah_suknat,
Say, you in Sabah?
Did some study on duck rearing but did not venture into it as
1) Very heavy eater
2) Limited market (meat)
3) My Land not suitable (water)
Spoke with a couple of people who had done / doing duck (meat), Keningau area. All of them says that the ducks has huge appetite. Manage the food and you should make it feasible. Those that had stopped also say that the feed is too high.

I guess duck eat many things, but feeding them left over, you need to process it. Also you do not have much control (on the left over). Oils, Bones etc.

If you are in Peninsular, you can see a lots of large scale duck farm on the KL-Ipoh Old road, near Kampar, Gopeng on those ex-mining pools.

I spoke with my son, culinary arts students, he say cake / pastry house uses lots of duck eggs. You may also consider Century egg? (the black 1). Do make sure the source of water, you mentioned river, you'll need to make sure it ever dries up. Quality of the water?


This post has been edited by MrFarmer: Aug 27 2012, 07:40 PM

Wow.... Sudden spike in activity.

As always, my computer system here seems to recognize Photobucket and Flickr as a security threat, so I can't view any pictures loaded up on those kind of picture viewers.

Anyway, onto the questions:

Binyamin:

Hydroponics used to be quite popular during the 1990s. But to produce cost effective hydroponic crops requires huge scales, and the huge scale of producing hydroponic crops costs too much.

To put into perspective:
1 acre of hydroponic system with PU sheds and systems will be in the range of about RM1 million easily. This does not include the cost of the land itself, or the overheads, which would increase the total initial capital outlay to RM1.5 million easily.

For conventional farming on 1 acre of land, the normal capital outlay is about RM150,000 or less, including the acquisition of land. Here I'm assuming heavy agri machines are rented, not owned.

The amount of crop produced in a 1 acre hydroponics facility is roughly 4 times the yield of conventional farming. So if 1 acre can produce about 30,000kg of crop per year using conventional method, hydroponics would give 120,000kg.

Now let's calculate the revenues.

If 1kg of crop averages about RM5 per kg, conventional farming would yield RM150,000 a year. After amortization of land costs, the farmer could see a nett profit of around RM30,000- RM50,000. With hydroponics, the revenue would be about RM600,000; net revenue would be in the range of RM130,000 or so.

Although hydroponics is 4.33 times greater than conventional farming, the initial capital outlay is 10 times as much. Keep in mind that in any business, be it farming or food peddling, there is a minimal scale of sale needed to break even, so with costlier equipment, higher efficiency is required to offset its cost.

Aside from this, do bear in mind the vicious cycle of agriculture output. To put it simply, more does not necessarily mean better. Producing 4.33 times the yield of conventional farming would look good on paper, but would it cause an oversupply in the marketplace, and hence a price crash? I remember that at one point, Cameron Highland farmers literally dumped tons of cabbages on the doorsteps of their local DOA after influx of foreign cabbages led to prices plummeting from RM2.00 per kg to RM0.40 per kg within a month.

Farming is not just about biology. It is also about marketing and economics. In other words, it's a multidisciplinary subject, which is often not emphasized.

You can market through FAMA, but I don't like them very much. In my opinion, they haven't been doing a good job. You can get a wholesaler to buy up your crop, especially if you have large scale. But honestly, you'd get more value for your produce if you sold them yourself.

ah_suknat:

RM2.50 per duckling is very cheap; RM4 is the standard resale price.

You can use feeding troughs, but you will need to find a suitable one. Rain gutters are a good choice. As for feed, free range them. Ducks are natural foragers, and they will eat what they need. Think of them as the goats of the poultry world.

A less desirable, but economically sound way is to use bulkers in their feed. This include things like coconut crumbs, ground up vegetable refuse, self caught small fish, ground up fish guts/bones/skins/scales etc. Be sure to fine grind them though. Just make sure that if you do this, the food is free from bacteria (like salmonella) since you're targeting eggs. Don't want contaminants from the feces infecting the eggs. You can add other nutrients separately using vitamins.

Just for information sake, it takes about 2.4kg of feed to get 1kg of duck eggs (roughly 14 eggs) IF you're having Khaki Campbells or Indian Runner ducks, and you free range them. Other duck breeds would take up around 4.5kg of feed to produce the same. For Khaki Campbells that are battery farmed (confined), they will consume a lot more food to produce 1kg eggs, about 3.1kg of feed in fact.

I don't support factory farming, I'm afraid. So no, I do not associate myself with battery farms for poultry or livestock.

This post has been edited by Michael J.: Aug 28 2012, 11:33 AM

Hi Mrfarmer,
Yes I am in Sabah, the farm is in Ranau to be exact.
1) yeah true they are big eater, head ache! that why I am trying to find ways in reducing the cost of feed.
2)I do not plan to sell it for the meat, but more for the eggs. I read an article said 90% of poultry industry actualy do not major in producing broiler, but major in eggs producing and only sell the meat as by product.
3) I thought water is a big plus for duck rearing? since ducks LOVE water.

that what I am trying to target as well, I will try to speak with hotels and bakeries to supply them fresh ducks eggs. but cost by cost, is it more profitable then selling salted egg & century egg? those have higher margin but the low demand off set it. I wonder where I can sell salted eggs and century eggs other than super markets.

its not really river per se, more like water ways supplied for the paddy field near by. water quality is ok, gets slight muddy during heavy rain, main concern is the water might gets poisoned during paddy season, so plain to have a seperate pipe to link the clean water source to the ponds.

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Added on August 28, 2012, 2:42 pmHi, Michael J,
suddenly I have a thought on rearing catfish as their source of protein and calcium, but cost to cost, which is more profitable? reducing food cost by rearing cat fish to feed the ducks, or rearing cat fish to sell for money? my mom told me the market prce for cat fish is RM7 per kg. the plus side in rearing catfish is they grow up fast ( 3 month?) and rather cheap to buy the bibit, plus I dont have to worry about their food as they can get it from duck manure.(if I build pen on top of the ponds), the down side is they will hide in the mud and hard to catch . if I were to sell it, is it easier to sell compare to tilapia? I sledom go to the wet market but I dont even remember the last time I ate a catfish

If my mom eventually manage to get left over food from schools and restaurants, are they safe to consume for the ducks later? what do I need to take into consideration?
1) how to make sure the left over food are free from backeria? should I mixed anti biotic with it?
2) if they eat porks, will it make the duck eggs not halal?

is it good to feed them powdered bones for their source of calcium?(gonna get them from KFC left over )
you also mentioned duckweed and watermillfoils, how do I grow them? do they just grow itself? are they fesible in large scale?

I can see that you are very good at pofitability calculation and project feasibility for an agriculture project, may I ask you what are main concern I need to know in starting a duck eggs production in terms of costing, how much money do I need and where does the money goes? assuming I start from sratch.

If my ultimate goal is to rear up to 10k ducks, which is better? buy the ducklings or hatch them myself? I do not plan to sell ducklings.

if I cant source the ducklings locally, is it possible to have ducklings SHIP all the way from peninsular to Sabah?

what is meant by intensive, non intensive?

thank you very much!

This post has been edited by ah_suknat: Aug 28 2012, 11:46 PM

Thanks for your answer, it is very detailed with everything I want answered. Wow I didn't know hydroponic need that large amount of capital! I suppose it will be cheaper if you build the system yourself out of things like PVC pipes than to import a whole set for 1 million per acre . If I am going to produce crops I would need to know at what point of my production level will it effect market price and by how much. I suppose it is hard to ascertain the answer. Or is it?

Check these out.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/176372...-the-dream-farm

how I wish I can do this here,,,,is there any medium like this here in Malaysia that I can try to collect funds...?

hi fellas,

i'm doing some studies about fish farming at the moment, Tilapia farming to be exact.

a friend of mine is interested actually, and though i dont really share his enthusiastic, i do believe he has overlook certain aspect of risk when it comes to starting new business.

anyhow, the 1st time that came to my mind was diseases;

1) what sort of diseases are there when it comes to Tilapia farming, and how do we identify/prevent them.

2) what is the occurring rate of these diseases, and the cause?

hopefully this could help him.

if u happened to be in KL, and enjoy coffee and discussion in the afternoon, let me know. =)