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 Venturing into Agriculture & Aquaculture, Co-Ordination & Implementation is KEY

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MrFarmer
post Aug 8 2012, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(Michael J. @ Aug 7 2012, 04:47 PM)
Mr Farmer:

You managed to germinate the Musang King? If so, congrats!

You don't really need a large polybag. I use one with a diameter of about 8.5cm only. You do need to be a little careful when planting the seeds initially though, as durian seeds germinate in a peculiar manner, i.e. it is rooting part will angle itself accutely irregardless how you plant it. The best way is to plant is flat of the soil surface, and let the roots find its own direction down. Or plant the germinating seed three-quarter-ways into the soil, with the root side just peeking out.

Now if after emerging from the soil, the seed gets caught by the side of the bag, don't worry. The seed is not as important as most people think; it only provides initial food for germinate and growth. The more important part in the growing shoot tip, which is "sandwiched" in the center of the seed. Normally, the shoot tip will extricate itself from the seed and be stand-alone quite soon. If not, you could help it along by washing away some of the soil so that the shoot is exposed to light; the shoot will autocorrect itself using light stimulation. This is the part you have to make sure it doesn't get jammed; if it does, it might die, and this could terminate growth of your durian seedling, provided you have clones/ materials that produce multiple shoots. I had one seedling whose cotyledon was so heavy it snaped the shoot off; fortunately it was a multi-shoot variant, so the side shoots grew to replace that main shoot.

Also note that durian seedlings, like some of its other cousins, cannot produce new growth below a certain notch (which is the point at which the seed/cotyledon is attached to the plant). If you accidentally cut/damage the plant below this point, it will never grow back. Anywhere above this notch, the plant could still regenerate new branches/growth points.


Added on August 7, 2012, 4:53 pmSorry, I should also clarify further:

Although you don't need a wide polybag, you will need a deep one. Durian seedling roots are very fast growing and deep, so anything less than 30cm deep is too shallow.

Alternatively, you could initiate germination in smaller polybags about 20cm deep and 8.5cm wide, then transplant them into large polybags (30cm wide by 45cm deep) for growth till 4th month stage. This kind of "two-stage nursery" method is good if you are targeting uniformity; you can select the seedlings which are about the same growth rate in the smaller polybag stage, and transplant them to the larger polybags. In theory, this would ensure that every batch of seedlings you produce will be more or less equal in growth and size.
*
Thank you. Yes managed to germinate just a few. I think 5 grew out of maybe 40 seeds (5 fruits). I used your suggestion of putting the seeds into a pail with water, line with old news papers. After a few days, it start to germinate. Surprisingly the first thing that grew out is the cotyledon (not the root). I transplanted all seeds (including the non germinated) into small poly bags, maybe 5 X 8 ". My mistake is that I though the cotyledon is the root, and planted it pointing downward. 2nd mistake is that I think I planted those seeds too deep, maybe 2~3" (was thinking that the roots shall hold better and deeper for easier handling when doing grafting. When I check back in a couple of days, the cotyledon was caught at the side of the poly bag, due to turning and the bag being too small diameter. Some died. Other seeds rotted due to air deprivation (I think, due to too deep).
Note my previous pic, on the left, there is a pic of the damaged cotyledon, which I guess may not survive. Am doing your suggestion of tow stage, transplanted some to bigger poly bags maybe 12X20". Hopefully it's large enough.
Guess I won't be grafting any durian yet as I don't have any scion source. Maybe just transplant it to the field in a couple of months (erh how long?).
optimus_shine
post Aug 8 2012, 01:29 PM

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wanna ask how good is it to rear duck for salted egg?? my mom just started to rear it and say ts much easier to rear compare to chicken(easy die) and fish(slow grow up), I wanna invest in it but dunno much if its really profitable.

how much to rear to start can see any profit?
Michael J.
post Aug 9 2012, 10:20 AM

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Mr Farmer:

Super! As I am still unable to view pictures from certain sources where I am (sigh), I will need to get back to you about the cotyledon germinating before root growth. Normally, some expansion of the seed coat will take place, and moderate expansion of the cotyledon is to be expected.

Seed rot will take place if the seeds are dead. Usually, undamaged and healthy seeds would be able to twart most diseases, except maybe phytophtora and fusarium rot lar. Two-three inches deep is too deep for most seeds.... a 1 inch depth is more than sufficient actually. Don't worry about sturdiness; durian tap roots are very agressive in the early stages.

As for field planting, this depends on your planning part. If you're going to do grafting, it would be best to wait till the seedlings are at least 4 months old, do the graft, and keep for another 4 months before planting out. For such instances, you will need a large polybag to keep the seedlings prior to field planting.


optimus_shine:

Hmm... this is a trickier question to answer.

(1) If you get the right breed and the right market, it can be phenomenally good. I've kept Muscovy (large white duck) and Khaki Campbells (small brown duck) before, and both have their pros and cons.

(2) Your mom is right. Most duck breeds have not been inbred very much, so they do not have deleterious (diseased) genes retained in them. Also, ducks are naturally resistant to most common poultry diseases, again due to better genetics compared to chickens. As for growth rate, that is contentious; good tilapia breeds which are properly fed can reach 800g weights in 3-4 months, while ducks take similar durations as well.

Some information on ducks:

Muscovies bear very large, white eggs which are really value for money; and they are quite good layers, but don't expect more than 150 eggs a year.

Khaki Campbells are the most consistent egg laying duck breed, averaging 300 eggs a year. The eggs are medium to small, bluish tinged, and have a rather fishy smell (when raw).

Both produce very good salted eggs, just that for commercial scale, the Khaki Campbells are the more sought after breed due to the quantity produced, and the fact that it's a small bird (so can keep more per area space). Price-wise, the Muscovy salted eggs can fetch up to RM1 each; the Khaki Campbell salted eggs average at RM0.30-0.40 each.

Read this link for some comparison between ducks and chickens:
http://kit94.tripod.com/eDvsC.html


Although I applaud your sense of entrepreneurship, I would like to caution against seeking for profits at the onset of your project. I mean, if you already have some hands-on experiences, then fine enough; but I'm guessing this is not the case.

For a good experience, try keeping 30 ducks in a 1000 square feet space, free range style. Do note that unlike chickens that need only about a few square feet space to remain happy layers, ducks won't lay eggs if they feel cooped up.

You will need to sex the ducks (through) venting so you get mostly females. Some people might contend this, but I find having 1 male to every 5 females help maintain the egg laying condition of the females.

To make sure you can find the eggs, prepare suitable nesting spots for the females before hand. Do remember that ducks like privacy when nesting, so each nest has to be significantly distant from the other. For Muscovies, I used a disused dog kennel kept about 1 foot above the soil, and a lined basket as a nest; for Khaki Campbells, they prefer nesting on the ground, so a shaded, slightly padded area would appeal to them.
TSParaOpticaL
post Aug 9 2012, 07:21 PM

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Hi People,

August Edition of the :-

Agriculture & Aquaculture Newsletter

is out

http://www.mediafire.com/?3zyvhsdwvklnmz4
optimus_shine
post Aug 12 2012, 04:27 AM

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QUOTE(Michael J. @ Aug 9 2012, 10:20 AM)
optimus_shine:

Hmm... this is a trickier question to answer.

(1) If you get the right breed and the right market, it can be phenomenally good. I've kept Muscovy (large white duck) and Khaki Campbells (small brown duck) before, and both have their pros and cons.

(2) Your mom is right. Most duck breeds have not been inbred very much, so they do not have deleterious (diseased) genes retained in them. Also, ducks are naturally resistant to most common poultry diseases, again due to better genetics compared to chickens. As for growth rate, that is contentious; good tilapia breeds which are properly fed can reach 800g weights in 3-4 months, while ducks take similar durations as well.

Some information on ducks:

Muscovies bear very large, white eggs which are really value for money; and they are quite good layers, but don't expect more than 150 eggs a year.

Khaki Campbells are the most consistent egg laying duck breed, averaging 300 eggs a year. The eggs are medium to small, bluish tinged, and have a rather fishy smell (when raw).

Both produce very good salted eggs, just that for commercial scale, the Khaki Campbells are the more sought after breed due to the quantity produced, and the fact that it's a small bird (so can keep more per area space). Price-wise, the Muscovy salted eggs can fetch up to RM1 each; the Khaki Campbell salted eggs average at RM0.30-0.40 each.

Read this link for some comparison between ducks and chickens:
http://kit94.tripod.com/eDvsC.html
Although I applaud your sense of entrepreneurship, I would like to caution against seeking for profits at the onset of your project. I mean, if you already have some hands-on experiences, then fine enough; but I'm guessing this is not the case.

For a good experience, try keeping 30 ducks in a 1000 square feet space, free range style. Do note that unlike chickens that need only about a few square feet space to remain happy layers, ducks won't lay eggs if they feel cooped up.

You will need to sex the ducks (through) venting so you get mostly females. Some people might contend this, but I find having 1 male to every 5 females help maintain the egg laying condition of the females.

To make sure you can find the eggs, prepare suitable nesting spots for the females before hand. Do remember that ducks like privacy when nesting, so each nest has to be significantly distant from the other. For Muscovies, I used a disused dog kennel kept about 1 foot above the soil, and a lined basket as a nest; for Khaki Campbells, they prefer nesting on the ground, so a shaded, slightly padded area would appeal to them.
*
wow thanks for the thorough and detail reply, very informative! notworthy.gif

my mom will be the one who do the rearing as she stays in the farm, this is her first time rearing duck tho, I will post some pictures of the farm soon, does weather change their breeding/laying behavior as the location of the farm is slightly on higher altitude, its warm during the day but quite cold during the night.

i dont know what breed is the duck but she said is itik thailand sweat.gif

my mom has no knowledge in all this, is there a must know or do in rearing duck? atleast for basic.

thank you very much again!! thumbup.gif thumbup.gif


Added on August 12, 2012, 6:01 pmby the way, I found an extremely useful books to study on rearing ducks and its free thumbup.gif

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/AD33.pdf


Added on August 12, 2012, 6:01 pmjust ask my mom and it tursn out its khaki campbell breed nod.gif

This post has been edited by optimus_shine: Aug 12 2012, 06:01 PM
Michael J.
post Aug 13 2012, 09:27 AM

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optimus_shine:

You've basically answered your own questions. Good effort!

Yes, Journey to Forever has a good collection of books, and well worth reading. I believe that you should find what you need to know in that book.

But I will add on a little: You really need to know your breed of ducks. Different breeds will have different behaviours and needs. For example, Indian Runners (Indonesian duck) don't nest and love to run around in open spaces, so you will need to literally search for their eggs since they will lay eggs anywhere on the ground. Muscovy ducklings tend to be cannabalistic, so you need to separate the smaller ducklings from the larger ones, and always ensure they are feed enough food. Hybrid ducks, like the Mulard are less flighty, calmers, and faster growers (thus heavy eaters) than most other duck breeds.

All ducks, however, require access to clean water for swimming and bathing to remain healthy. This is particularly true for breeds like the Pekin; breeds like Indian Runners prefer to graze in open spaces.

Anyway, the crux of the matter is that you need to know your ducks, their behaviours, likes/don't likes etc. This all would help in managing them, and most importantly prventing diseases and other avoidable problems. As cliche as it may sound, prevention is still better than cure.


Added on August 13, 2012, 9:45 amIf you're located up north, this might be interesting for you:

http://www.mudah.my/Anak+itik+telur-17099367.htm

This post has been edited by Michael J.: Aug 13 2012, 09:45 AM
insearching
post Aug 16 2012, 08:56 PM

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Hello Sifu,

Mind I ask is there any crop that provide good returns within 1 - 2 years? like 1 kg of that particular crop which enable me to sell it for around few thousand ringgit?


MrFarmer
post Aug 17 2012, 12:39 AM

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QUOTE(insearching @ Aug 16 2012, 08:56 PM)
Hello Sifu,

Mind I ask is there any crop that provide good returns within 1 - 2 years? like 1 kg of that particular crop which enable me to sell it for around few thousand ringgit?
*
Oh Yes, of course there is. You may want to try opium biggrin.gif
optimus_shine
post Aug 17 2012, 02:46 AM

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QUOTE(MrFarmer @ Aug 17 2012, 12:39 AM)
Oh Yes, of course there is. You may want to try opium  biggrin.gif
*
lol!

try saffron, its the most expensive herbs in the world! tongue.gif
Michael J.
post Aug 17 2012, 08:44 AM

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optimus_shine:

Erm.... sorry if this sounds cynical. Just because it is the most expensive herb/crop/fish/cow/donkey, it doesn't mean it will grow well here.



The crocus flower (Crocus sativa) is a Mediterranean climate crop, meaning it grows well only with lots of sunlight (14 hours daylight), and mild weather (26C average temperature, 70% humidity). Malaysia has an average of 16 hours of daylight, averages 28-30C temperatures, and a humidity of around 70%-80%. Those parameters may look close enough to a Mediterranean climate, except that to a plant, it is a whole world apart.

Furthermore, you need to plant about 150,000 bulbs to get just 1kg of saffron. The heavy price tag on saffron is not solely due to overwhelming demand; it is also due to the very low yields gained for an immense amount of effort given to its cultivation.


insearching:

I'm going to repeat what I keep telling people who visit this thread: There are no short cuts in agriculture. Anyone who is trying to look for quick money in life should look elsewhere instead.

Now to seriously answer your question about a very short term crop with extremely high returns - Legally, no; Illegally, many.



Mr Farmer:
Malaysia has classified medicinal marijuana and poppy cultivation as illegal activities too, so no chance of growing them legally here either.
stairz
post Aug 17 2012, 09:49 AM

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Hi all, just dropping by to say "Hi" and kudos to TS and regular contributors for sharing immense priceless knowledge and experience here.

There's so much more for me to learn about agriculture practises & economics involved in our beloved country (and it's people), and having the chance to come across with such community (in this forum) is a huge eye-opener.

So, all the best to everyone, and looking forward to someday meet-up & just 'hang-out' with you(s). thumbup.gif
TSParaOpticaL
post Aug 17 2012, 09:59 AM

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Since most of the guys here are polite...so let me be the BAD GUY.

Sorry bro...if there was such a thing You Would NEVER be the first one to had done it so please be realistic.

Agriculture & Aquaculture is NEVER A GET RICH QUICK area.

It takes months and years of hardwork + sweat to be close to successful or profitable

QUOTE(insearching @ Aug 16 2012, 08:56 PM)
Hello Sifu,

Mind I ask is there any crop that provide good returns within 1 - 2 years? like 1 kg of that particular crop which enable me to sell it for around few thousand ringgit?
*
fyseng
post Aug 17 2012, 02:21 PM

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I bought 1 bags 20kg of manure fertilizer from Sg Buloh recently and it cost me about Rm50.

Is there any shop around Puchong that sell fertilizer? I am looking for 1-2 bags for my fruits tree. Any cheap multipurpose fertilizer will do. My coconut tree feel like not healthy and want to die.
MrFarmer
post Aug 20 2012, 04:24 PM

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Gaharu, Agarwood, Eaglewood.
Was doing some search on Gaharu and came across this

Cost & Benefits Analysis of Aquilara Species on Plantation for Agarwood Production in Malaysia

Am feeling that Malaysia lags very far behind in this filed, compare to our neighbors. Also read up on the Gaharu thread on LY, not active. It was started back in Oct 2007. Hope that they are Millionaires by now.

Planted some Agarwood on the slope.

user posted image


Attached File(s)
Attached File  GaharuCostAna.pdf ( 185.67k ) Number of downloads: 19
insearching
post Aug 20 2012, 09:11 PM

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QUOTE(MrFarmer @ Aug 17 2012, 12:39 AM)
Oh Yes, of course there is. You may want to try opiumĀ  biggrin.gif
*
opium? it is legal?

smile.gif


Added on August 20, 2012, 9:13 pm
QUOTE(optimus_shine @ Aug 17 2012, 02:46 AM)
lol!

try saffron, its the most expensive herbs in the world! tongue.gif
*
is Malaysia's weather and climate suitable to plant saffron?

smile.gif

This post has been edited by insearching: Aug 20 2012, 09:15 PM
TSParaOpticaL
post Aug 22 2012, 07:51 AM

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Hi folks,

To Those who are planting Jatropha might want to read this article :-

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/08/2...e-crashing-down
Michael J.
post Aug 22 2012, 09:17 AM

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As far as I know, most growers of gaharu/agarwood/aquilaria/eaglewood had mixed success. Some had moderate success, while many others have failed. The scientist from FRIM who pioneered its mass propagation himself had indicated doubt of its long term success. He has since left FRIM for greener pastures.

The problem is not so much with growing the aquilaria tree itself, or mass production of the plant. It has to do with the fungus used to inoculate the tree for the production of the gaharu, and the technology involved with getting the gaharu flowing. It is unreliable.

Let me list out some of the hurdles for successful gaharu production:

(i) Species and clonal variety of aquilaria tree. This is very important, as gaharu production depends heavily on the inoculated fungus infecting the tree and causing a response. In other words, you want clonal varieties that have proven record of successful infection AND production of the gaharu. So far, the success of this has been very low, even within FRIM. The best results I've seen is with an on-going project at UNIMAS, and even then, they have yet to release anything just yet. According to the scientist, it will take another 5 years or more before something concrete can be developed.

(ii) Inoculation technique. There as many techniques out there as there are species of aquilaria, and probably more. In other words, no one way has proven to have any greater success over the other. In fact, most techniques give very low results, about 7%-10% of inoculated trees forming the gaharu resin which is prized.

(iii) Quality and quantity. This is a standard problem in any industry and sector, more so in biology-based systems like farms and plantations. You just never know how much product you can expect, or what grade it will be. Of course, it would be convenient to brush this aspect aside by saying all agriculture ventures are likewise risky; however, with other agriculture ventures, you can actually see the production taking place (eg. how many eggs a day produced by poultry, how many oil palm fruit bunches on the palm, etc.). With gaharu production, you will never know until you've chopped down the tree and exposed the heartwood. If the said infection had failed, and the gaharu resin had not formed, then you've just killed a tree for no apparent reason. Not to mention the amount of time and resources wasted to grow it to harvesting stage.

I don't feel the need to list out too much, as I believe the gist of the matter has been adequately covered. Now, it is very important to be able to separate truth from myth, so please, do in depth research (from primary sources) on the subject matter beforehand. If the statement that "everything has a pricetag" holds true, then it would be prudent for anyone to first understand how that "pricetag" first came into being.


yifie_911
post Aug 22 2012, 09:49 PM

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Hi, newbie here...May I know where got vermiculture farm? It is better for the farm is located around N9...
Thank You
MrFarmer
post Aug 22 2012, 10:01 PM

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QUOTE(Michael J. @ Aug 22 2012, 09:17 AM)
As far as I know, most growers of gaharu/agarwood/aquilaria/eaglewood had mixed success. Some had moderate success, while many others have failed. The scientist from FRIM who pioneered its mass propagation himself had indicated doubt of its long term success. He has since left FRIM for greener pastures.

The problem is not so much with growing the aquilaria tree itself, or mass production of the plant. It has to do with the fungus used to inoculate the tree for the production of the gaharu, and the technology involved with getting the gaharu flowing. It is unreliable.

Let me list out some of the hurdles for successful gaharu production:

(i)  Species and clonal variety of aquilaria tree. This is very important, as gaharu production depends heavily on the inoculated fungus infecting the tree and causing a response. In other words, you want clonal varieties that have proven record of successful infection AND production of the gaharu. So far, the success of this has been very low, even within FRIM. The best results I've seen is with an on-going project at UNIMAS, and even then, they have yet to release anything just yet. According to the scientist, it will take another 5 years or more before something concrete can be developed.

(ii) Inoculation technique. There as many techniques out there as there are species of aquilaria, and probably more. In other words, no one way has proven to have any greater success over the other. In fact, most techniques give very low results, about 7%-10% of inoculated trees forming the gaharu resin which is prized.

(iii) Quality and quantity. This is a standard problem in any industry and sector, more so in biology-based systems like farms and plantations. You just never know how much product you can expect, or what grade it will be. Of course, it would be convenient to brush this aspect aside by saying all agriculture ventures are likewise risky; however, with other agriculture ventures, you can actually see the production taking place (eg. how many eggs a day produced by poultry, how many oil palm fruit bunches on the palm, etc.). With gaharu production, you will never know until you've chopped down the tree and exposed the heartwood. If the said infection had failed, and the gaharu resin had not formed, then you've just killed a tree for no apparent reason. Not to mention the amount of time and resources wasted to grow it to harvesting stage.

I don't feel the need to list out too much, as I believe the gist of the matter has been adequately covered. Now, it is very important to be able to separate truth from myth, so please, do in depth research (from primary sources) on the subject matter beforehand. If the statement that "everything has a pricetag" holds true, then it would be prudent for anyone to first understand how that "pricetag" first came into being.
*
At this moment I can only say that it's a hardy plant and I don't see any trouble planting these. Planted some early this year (March, I think). Some are growing fast. Have rescued some from Herbicide injuries and some overgrown, fully covered with weeds. They are starting to grow now. These were gifts from a friend. Anyway, this is only a supplementary crop.

user posted image
user posted image
user posted image

Michael J.
post Aug 23 2012, 08:28 AM

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yifie:

Vermiculture, like many other "hot" projects by MOA/DOA/MARDI have suffered a "natural" death. It would be quite difficult to find any vermiculturist nowadays; but the upside is if you do find one, he/she is most likely a very dedicated and/or established operator.

There used to be a successful vermiculturist in Kajang once a moon ago, but the last I heard was that he has closed his business recently. Can anyone verify this?

Mr Farmer:

Do keep observing and update us. Your observation would contribute significantly to this thread.

As I've said, there is no issue with growing the plant itself. It is the inoculation and production of the agarwood (which is the fungus-infected portion of the aquilaria) which is problematic.

Anyway, there's a new drive in agarwood production which does not require the planting of aquilaria, or developing inoculates anymore. The research is already at heading towards pre-commercialization stage, so it is only a matter of time before it becomes reality. Essentially, it involves totipotent plant cells, fungal antigen proteins, and a large bioreactor. According to the scientists who are involved with the project, that one bioreactor is equivalent to the production yield of 100,000 successfully inoculated aquilaria trees, at a fraction of space.

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