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> Learn our national language, you ignorant buffoons

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unknown warrior
post Nov 23 2015, 10:43 PM

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QUOTE(RottoManual @ Nov 23 2015, 10:11 PM)
forgive me if I misunderstood. but are you implying that the government is a different example from parents and Companies?  thus the analogy itself is incompatible?
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RottoManual
post Nov 23 2015, 10:45 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 23 2015, 10:43 PM)
Forgive me If I don't care.
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it's alright. we are in kopitiam after all.

*edited*

This post has been edited by RottoManual: Nov 23 2015, 10:50 PM
RottoManual
post Nov 23 2015, 10:47 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Nov 23 2015, 10:32 PM)
You claimed its so hard to learn even 1 language. The average Chinese Malaysian  or Indian Malaysian speaks 2 if not 3 or 4, even more if you count the dialects. So basically it's not hard. Just a matter how we go about executing formal language education. I'm just pointing out the real reason why it seems harder than it really is: bad execution as a result of organic incompetence.
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you have misunderstood me. I did not claim it is hard to learn another language. but I commented that people as a whole are very reluctant in learning a language(a funny irony is the topic at hand).But, it's is actually difficult to learn another language should a person not already picked it up during his childhood.
I think that there are people in this country failed to ace their mandarin proficiency test. and a malay might know malay,english,reciting arabic(but not know it's meaning)and they could also pick up several dialects.
I agree about the education. I have said before that it is up to the government to provide good edu for the adoption of the national language. But if the people themselves are reluctant, than the gov would either let it go or enforce it.
RottoManual
post Nov 23 2015, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Nov 23 2015, 10:07 PM)
let's not confuse ourselves between what ought to be done and how its done.
Multilingualism is the right way to go. Why we can't do it on the other hand is simply a long term consequence of that well intentioned but ill conceived attempt at social engineering we call the NEP. Our country spends so much per capita on education and yet sees so little return. Have you ever stopped to ask why? My parents were teachers. My late grandfather was a state officer. I've seen it first hand: it's all about incompetence and corruption exacerbated by a stupid policy that places ethnicity over merit.
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I lack much knowledge but as of now I actually somewhat agree with this statement. but there are specifics that I am not contented with. but if I do discuss them, it'll perhaps be too sensitive. not for here. these kinds of talks is perhaps not suited for texts in a forum, since it's harder to express the words.

This post has been edited by RottoManual: Nov 23 2015, 11:00 PM
johnny82
post Nov 23 2015, 11:06 PM

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lol this is the funniest piece of shit article
wanna promote BM..but write and bunga bunga in English. OK.

oe_kintaro
post Nov 23 2015, 11:36 PM

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QUOTE(RottoManual @ Nov 23 2015, 10:47 PM)
you have misunderstood me. I did not claim it is hard to learn another language. but I commented that people as a whole are very reluctant in learning a language(a funny irony is the topic at hand).But, it's is actually difficult to learn another language should a person not already picked it up during his childhood.
I think that there are people in this country failed to ace their mandarin proficiency test. and a malay might know malay,english,reciting arabic(but not know it's meaning)and they could also pick up several dialects.
I agree about the education. I have said before that it is up to the government to provide good edu for the adoption of the national language. But if the people themselves are reluctant, than the gov would either let it go or enforce it.
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Which goes back to the point I made earlier: if we had a forward looking and competent government guided by sensible policy we wouldn't be in this mess.
RottoManual
post Nov 24 2015, 12:23 AM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Nov 23 2015, 11:36 PM)
Which goes back to the point I made earlier: if we had a forward looking and competent government guided by sensible policy we wouldn't be in this mess.
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I understand and agree with your points but I have to ask: is it entirely the government fault for the people not wanting to learn the national language?

question rephrased
this is my last question for this thread. honest.

This post has been edited by RottoManual: Nov 24 2015, 12:25 AM
stickmanchong17
post Nov 24 2015, 01:37 AM

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I feel dat as long as u can communicate wif others in basic BM, then it's sufficient alrdy. Many dropouts who bcome mechanics, plumbers, etc. can communicate wif others despite using broken BM. Language helps people get their message across, so if d mesej can b understood w/o being proficient in BM, why force people 2 deliberately improve their BM? Just to please people who love to "memartabatkan Bahasa Melayu"?

Making the proficiency of our national language one of the fundamentals of citizenship in Malaysia is overdoing it. Many wud b forced 2 give up citizenships, despite being good, law-abiding citizens. Labeling people wif poor grasp of BM as "ignorant buffoons" is degrading & unrespectful, bcause these people may hav their reasons for their lack of proficiency.

However, learning BM is a must, bcause u roughly nid 2 know how 2 communicate to Msians who oni speak BM. (despite speaking "bahasa pasar") BM is oso useful bcause nearly everyone knows it. Besides, it's oso our national language, which is our identity.

P.S.- You can encourage people 2b better in BM, but u cant force them 2 improve or use BM if they refuse to.

hellokitten
post Nov 24 2015, 01:45 AM

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QUOTE(RottoManual @ Nov 24 2015, 12:23 AM)
I understand and agree with your points but I have to ask:  is it entirely the government fault for the people not wanting to learn the national language?

question rephrased
this is my last question for this thread. honest.
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Err yes... the problem is very simple

A) Barisan National - Keeps promoting vernacular schools.
B) Opposition - Either keeps quiet or fights for parents who complain that there are not enough vernacular schools.

So why need 25 pages for this?
BoonieTan
post Nov 24 2015, 01:53 AM

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QUOTE(SelfieMaster @ Nov 22 2015, 02:47 PM)
Kindly explain why is this article written in English instead of Malay.
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This is written specifically for those who looks at national language with contempt.

If she could write in Mandarin and Tamil, I bet she would.

But wait? What about those Malays who speak and write incomprehensive Malays which is only understood by their group only? This is the group that damages BM the most! Own language buat pakai cam nakharom.
RottoManual
post Nov 24 2015, 02:08 AM

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QUOTE(hellokitten @ Nov 24 2015, 01:45 AM)
Err yes... the problem is very simple

A) Barisan National - Keeps promoting vernacular schools.
B) Opposition - Either keeps quiet or fights for parents who complain that there are not enough vernacular schools.

So why need 25 pages for this?
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are for or against vernacular schools then? I couldn't help myself from asking another question... sweat.gif

This post has been edited by RottoManual: Nov 24 2015, 02:09 AM
hellokitten
post Nov 24 2015, 02:13 AM

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QUOTE(RottoManual @ Nov 24 2015, 02:08 AM)
are for or against vernacular schools then? I couldn't help myself from asking another question... sweat.gif
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Against... additional languages can be taught at Kebangsaan schools as an elective module or an extra curricular class ...

I'm also against institutional racism...


RottoManual
post Nov 24 2015, 02:15 AM

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QUOTE(BoonieTan @ Nov 24 2015, 01:53 AM)
This is written specifically for those who looks at national language with contempt.

If she could write in Mandarin and Tamil, I bet she would.

But wait? What about those Malays who speak and write incomprehensive Malays which is only understood by their group only? This is the group that damages BM the most! Own language buat pakai cam nakharom.
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lol.. they could use it for play(like K/), but in work places,formal gatherings, etc.. they probably should not be using it laugh.gif
RottoManual
post Nov 24 2015, 02:22 AM

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QUOTE(hellokitten @ Nov 24 2015, 02:13 AM)
Against... additional languages can be taught at Kebangsaan schools as an elective module or an extra curricular class ...

I'm also against institutional racism...
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ooh I see.. I have some thoughts on this but.. I would like to stay away from the topic.. not appropriate I think.

I'm against racism in general(I'm sure you are too). either institutionally or by the people. for racism from the people could raise racism in governing and racism in governing would certainly give rise to racism in people.

This post has been edited by RottoManual: Nov 24 2015, 02:24 AM
SUSthis issit!
post Nov 24 2015, 02:30 AM

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im not reading 26 pages

1) We are malaysians, we need to be able to speak BM

end.
kienhuia
post Nov 24 2015, 06:41 AM

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The main culprit ... poor education system and governing


fitzhex
post Nov 24 2015, 06:47 AM

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apa salahan saya?
luxollidd
post Nov 24 2015, 06:47 AM

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enforced compulsory in unrelated fields are stupid.
the article argues about one specific field, medicine. ofcourse BM proficiency is important, you're dealing with all sorts of patients.
but to be fair, what business do those in IT, engineering, actuarial fields etc, have with having good marks in BM?

my thoughts, you can speak malay? good for u ler.
but NOT, "you can't speak malay? go retake whole semester for a totally unrelated subject.
SUSs2peMocls
post Nov 24 2015, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(RottoManual @ Nov 23 2015, 07:03 PM)
just like a parent have no rights over their children, or a company no rights over what their employees need or need not have? in Malaysia, the Government asks it's people to speak the national language. I think it's a fair enough requirement.
1. yes a malaysian, but what kind of malaysian? the reason he/she decide not to speak the language speaks about the person.
2.a realist? how so?
3.well-travelled... wha? what does that have to do with anything?? in any case, so most people here who despises the malay language is well traveled? I bet you most of them do not even bother to learn the language of the country their visiting..
4.you can uphold the language spoken by your forefathers no problem. no problem with being traditional as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.
but it'd be really great to learn the national language too. if you have not learned it due to the lack of exposure, then I understand, and I hope the govenrment would better remedial the issue. if they are really keen having the people conversing in malay.

tldr:
Basically.. everyone or anyone is a malaysian either he/she be a criminial, unkind,uncaring,dishonorable,kind,nice,hardworking,etc.. but
the reason's you chose not to learn the language might refeclt on what kind of malaysian you are. the matter is nuanced. it's not as simple as being practising one's right or not.
I know you are being sarcastic.  your comments are in the verge of favoritism. there are other troubles caused by the others races in malaysia. your comments work vice versa with the chinese and indians too. perhaps even other minorites in malaysia. you don't think the malays have issue with other ethnic's conduct?  sad.gif
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1. BM has the formal variant, and the pasar variant, and the kelantanese/terengganu variant. My experience is that malays rarely use 100% malay language, it's mostly a BM mix English. The village BM speakers rarely use the formal variant, and has heavy jargons, rendering conversation with others difficult.

2. Well... if lets say someone who represents you is an embarrassment, you'd have to be in denial not to be, right?

3. No, the question was someone who would rather speak other languages over malay language, not someone who despises it, that's question no.2

4. I'm pretty sure everyone who grew up in this country learned the national language. Whether they use it or not is an entirely different issue. Your concern is no doubt why are there so few non-malays using the malay language, and the reason is very simple. Relevance.

I'm sure the malays have PLENTY of issues with other ethnic's "conduct", and vice versa. There are 2 major differences between the camps. One imposes their standards on the other, the other camp doesn't. I'm sure you know which camp is which.
oe_kintaro
post Nov 24 2015, 10:14 AM

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QUOTE(RottoManual @ Nov 24 2015, 12:23 AM)
I understand and agree with your points but I have to ask:  is it entirely the government fault for the people not wanting to learn the national language?

question rephrased
this is my last question for this thread. honest.
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That mindset just betrays the problem. By "people" do you mean the non-Malays specifically? Granted you don't see that many sasterawan negara who are non-Malays, but the majority of non-Malays in our country have functional mastery of Malay. We don't make a big deal about it, nor do we fuss that much about speaking English vs Mandarin vs Hokkien vs Cantonese in daily life. I don't see that among my Indian friends either. I'd say most would switch between languages as needed. On the other hand, there seems to be stigma among Malays about speaking anything but Malay. A collective lack of self-esteem perhaps? I don't have the answer to that, but this is where a government that has correctly identified the needs of the nation would take effective steps to address it, political expediency be damned. Too much political interference and lack of incompetence in our education system is the problem.

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