Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

> Learn our national language, you ignorant buffoons

views
     
oe_kintaro
post Nov 23 2015, 07:51 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,222 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(prags85 @ Nov 23 2015, 01:32 PM)
I think this article was well written and it does raise a valid point...imagine the Syrian refugees moving to Europe now and living there , after 100 years their descendants ask the german government yo stop emphasizing the German language and to focus on English ..... Do u think that will fly ??? I admit my BM is not as good as my English or my French but I can speak it and I do try to communicate the best way I can, As a Malaysian we should b able to speak the language of the nation we are born and raised in , after all 100/200 years ago some of our ancestors would have had to live of the mercy of the inhabitants of this land.....it's not too much effort to honor those who took our forefathers in and whose descendants with whom we share this country with .....
*
Au contraire, I thought the article was rather stupid, but emblematic of the mindset that is causing the problems in this country. Language is not a zero sum game: you do not become more or less patriotic just because you speak one language or another. If you want to communicate the best you can, you learn as many languages as you are able to, and an enlightened government can encourage such multilingualism. In this day and age we need to be global citizens and being able to speak many languages opens that door for us.
oe_kintaro
post Nov 23 2015, 10:07 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,222 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(RottoManual @ Nov 23 2015, 08:05 PM)
with people  having a hard time learning 1 national language.. you want the government to enforce other languages too? hmm.gif  truthfully I support the idea.I agree prags85 comment and yours.. it's just that at it's core the people as a whole can't be bothered to learn too much languages you know? who's going to forfeit the education budget? plus, would the people spend time to learn french etc..? it'd be good if they would, but before global citizens, we are malaysian citizens. unless you believe in Novus Ordo Seclorum  laugh.gif
*
let's not confuse ourselves between what ought to be done and how its done.
Multilingualism is the right way to go. Why we can't do it on the other hand is simply a long term consequence of that well intentioned but ill conceived attempt at social engineering we call the NEP. Our country spends so much per capita on education and yet sees so little return. Have you ever stopped to ask why? My parents were teachers. My late grandfather was a state officer. I've seen it first hand: it's all about incompetence and corruption exacerbated by a stupid policy that places ethnicity over merit.
oe_kintaro
post Nov 23 2015, 10:32 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,222 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(RottoManual @ Nov 23 2015, 10:15 PM)
thanks for your reply. I will think more about the issue of broadening the usage of other languages(+BM) in our country.
*
You claimed its so hard to learn even 1 language. The average Chinese Malaysian or Indian Malaysian speaks 2 if not 3 or 4, even more if you count the dialects. So basically it's not hard. Just a matter how we go about executing formal language education. I'm just pointing out the real reason why it seems harder than it really is: bad execution as a result of organic incompetence.
oe_kintaro
post Nov 23 2015, 11:36 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,222 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(RottoManual @ Nov 23 2015, 10:47 PM)
you have misunderstood me. I did not claim it is hard to learn another language. but I commented that people as a whole are very reluctant in learning a language(a funny irony is the topic at hand).But, it's is actually difficult to learn another language should a person not already picked it up during his childhood.
I think that there are people in this country failed to ace their mandarin proficiency test. and a malay might know malay,english,reciting arabic(but not know it's meaning)and they could also pick up several dialects.
I agree about the education. I have said before that it is up to the government to provide good edu for the adoption of the national language. But if the people themselves are reluctant, than the gov would either let it go or enforce it.
*
Which goes back to the point I made earlier: if we had a forward looking and competent government guided by sensible policy we wouldn't be in this mess.
oe_kintaro
post Nov 24 2015, 10:14 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,222 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(RottoManual @ Nov 24 2015, 12:23 AM)
I understand and agree with your points but I have to ask:  is it entirely the government fault for the people not wanting to learn the national language?

question rephrased
this is my last question for this thread. honest.
*
That mindset just betrays the problem. By "people" do you mean the non-Malays specifically? Granted you don't see that many sasterawan negara who are non-Malays, but the majority of non-Malays in our country have functional mastery of Malay. We don't make a big deal about it, nor do we fuss that much about speaking English vs Mandarin vs Hokkien vs Cantonese in daily life. I don't see that among my Indian friends either. I'd say most would switch between languages as needed. On the other hand, there seems to be stigma among Malays about speaking anything but Malay. A collective lack of self-esteem perhaps? I don't have the answer to that, but this is where a government that has correctly identified the needs of the nation would take effective steps to address it, political expediency be damned. Too much political interference and lack of incompetence in our education system is the problem.
oe_kintaro
post Nov 24 2015, 04:17 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,222 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(s2peMocls @ Nov 24 2015, 11:14 AM)
Maybe it's because the non-malays are multilingual, but the malays are not?
*
The whole language debate is in need of a reframing. Most Malaysians seem to be stuck in a rut and falling the same arguments, whether it's English vs Malay, English vs Chinese, ad nauseum. It's not A vs B or B vs A, but "why not A + B + C + D, and what what can we do to make that happen?"

The most sensible article I have come across about the whole language debate was surprisingly, not from any of the regular nonsense news portals, but a car website:

Benarkah Industri Automotif Jepun dan Korea Maju Tanpa Bahasa Inggeris?

This post has been edited by oe_kintaro: Nov 24 2015, 04:17 PM
oe_kintaro
post Nov 24 2015, 04:33 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,222 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(Table Fan @ Nov 24 2015, 04:22 PM)
because if trying to score 9As is already difficult....why add another subject to it?
*
scoring 9As is rightly supposed to be difficult. That's the whole point. That's how we decide who is really smart and deserving. But if every Ali and Ah Kau can score 9As and crowd out the university placements / scholarship places for Medicine (thereby allowing MCA/The Star to do the yearly charade of "defending" the oppressed students denied a place in Medicine) that simply means the barriers are not high enough. However, that is a different story not within the direct scope of this debate.
oe_kintaro
post Nov 24 2015, 04:44 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,222 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(Table Fan @ Nov 24 2015, 04:35 PM)
Yes..that's what i am trying to say..if scoring 9A is already very difficult, why add on another level of difficulty? I dont remember many students that wanted to make things more difficult in their life....there were the odd few...but that's all....
*
Kids these days are living in a society that worships straight "A"s. The whole idea behind the new School Based Assessment which many parents don't get, is to get away from the mugging / rote-learning culture focused on getting As, and to promote creative, more critical thinking skills. That is totally different issue altogether, (and please, don't let me get started on that. shakehead.gif ). If you made it your student life's goal to get 9As that's for you to decide, but ideally it shouldn't mean that you should have to be shamed for getting less.

Where language is concerned, if a child wants to pick up multiple languages in school he should be allowed to do so and be provided the infrastructure.
The problem with the current language debate is that it takes energy, brain power and resources away from being able to focus on the needful.
oe_kintaro
post Nov 24 2015, 05:00 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,222 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(Table Fan @ Nov 24 2015, 04:48 PM)
It's good for your explanation..but the point is still majority of students wouldnt bother themselves with additional subj if they dont have to.

You're preaching to the wrong individual.
*
Yes I know, the majority of Malaysians are blinded by racial rhetoric and pride and can't see the forest for the trees. Our politicians are stupid because we were stupid enough to elect them in the first place, and they put in place policies which made us stupider still so that we continue to elect them to office. The way language issues are debated in the public sphere is reflective of our inability to think clearly and critically. A sign perhaps, of our low educational standards?

I know I'm a lone and unpopular voice but some things still need to be said.
oe_kintaro
post Nov 24 2015, 05:17 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,222 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(Table Fan @ Nov 24 2015, 05:07 PM)
Well, all i can give is, you do what you think is right bro.. nod.gif
*
Well, nothing I can do, except make sure my own kids can speak multiple languages in the future.
oe_kintaro
post Nov 24 2015, 05:28 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,222 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(Table Fan @ Nov 24 2015, 05:18 PM)
Aint gonna force them..but i will let them know the advantages of speaking multiple languages..since i can converse half broken in Korean, Japan and Hakka and Tamil..apart from the typical English, Malay, Mandarin, Hokkien & Cantonese...
*
try not to leave it broken: it may get you a few yen or won off when haggling while traveling on a package tour, but it won't open doors of opportunity like speaking a foreign language fluently does.
oe_kintaro
post Nov 24 2015, 05:51 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,222 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(Table Fan @ Nov 24 2015, 05:30 PM)
the time needed vs the few yen/won jst doesnt justify.

i learn them as hobby only though..jst for fun..
*
The best way to learn is when you are having fun. What started as hobby for me became a profitable sideline. When my colleagues found out I spoke a foreign language, it also transformed my career and afforded me opportunities I never imagined. Heck, even meeting my fiancee was an indirect result....

Bump Topic Add ReplyOptions New Topic
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0255sec    0.83    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 16th December 2025 - 12:16 AM