QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Nov 24 2015, 04:17 PM)
The whole language debate is in need of a reframing. Most Malaysians seem to be stuck in a rut and falling the same arguments, whether it's English vs Malay, English vs Chinese, ad nauseum. It's not A vs B or B vs A, but "why not A + B + C + D, and what what can we do to make that happen?"
The most sensible article I have come across about the whole language debate was surprisingly, not from any of the regular nonsense news portals, but a car website:
Benarkah Industri Automotif Jepun dan Korea Maju Tanpa Bahasa Inggeris?It's the same argument only from ONE party. The others have no problem with A+B+C pon.
As for the car portal on language, it seems to be pushing for English literacy is mandatory in Japan's and Korea's automotive industry. I'm afraid that's a far cry from what the BM proponents here is advocating.
QUOTE(RottoManual @ Nov 24 2015, 04:42 PM)
1. everywhere in the world you will find different variant from different languages,it's the nature of languages. but the people still need to understand the language. it's not a reason not too. yes, these days the malays are exposed to western media and their malay are mixed with english sometimes, but it is not as if they can't speak full bahasa, it is not as if they can't converse in bahasa or change to formal bahasa when the situation arises.
2. the language trancends the user. even if the politicians you consider to be an embarrassment it does not mean the people need to be embarrassed to speak the language.. if this is the way then everytime a new unpopular japanese prime minister is elected, the citizen question the use of it's national language?
3. it's no problem if you'd like to speak other languages. but do be able to speak bahasa should the situation arise.
4.I understand that relevance trumps all. if you consider it to be irrelevant than it's up to you. but what makes a thing relevant should be properly considered as well.
5.it's not just about the majority rule, there is subtlety in relations between people, things that are unspoken but is a problem. things you don't directly see as a problem. I have a few ideas in this regard, but I will not say. but honestly in my opinion, majority rule is usually the way to go. As long as it doesn't hinder too much on the minority. since you are referring to the malays, what are some of their standards that you are not content with? this so that I would have a bit of an understanding on yourself. Not to start a new discussion or anything.
1. I'm not referring to bahasa, inggeris mix. I'm referring to colloquials, jargons, even different way of pronouncing words, or different terms. So when you say "malay language" there's a huge variant, and if you are referring to formal malay language, I'm afraid there are very few m'sians who can speak it. Naturally, when the politicians refer to malay, the meant all the variants, as long as it is spoken by a malay, which frankly, just stinks of intentional segregation.
2. Well... if every other word from the language is a bastardized version of another word, it's not something to be proud off. For instance, the word "jahanam" isn't even a malay word, it's an arabic word. I am not "embarassed" to use the BM language per se, but I won't be bragging about how awesome the language is, like how the politicians and the ultras do it. So yes, just being a realist yo.
3. I think pretty much everyone in m'sia can speak "bahasa" when the situation arises. What you see in on TV when a speaker is heckled to speak in BM is just posturing, relenting to the heckler means giving the heckler acknowledgement.
Do you remember the press conf where Rais Yatim tells the reporter off for asking a question in english? Right after that he used an english word (the word used was pornografi). WTF right? yes, but no journalists dare to tell him off, unfortunately.
4. Yes. why would someone remember something that is not relevant, especially if it contains no artistic or aesthetic values?
5. Majority "rule" is not a hard guide. It has become a tool for politicians to further their cause, and people have become sheeps. For instance, in America, people want free stuffs (i.e. welfare) and the politicians who can provide more welfare get the votes, and the politicians who push for austerity gets the boot. That's why their debt is getting higher and higher. This is no different locally, implementing a lousy policy just because "majority rule" means you're a weak and incompetent leader.
Tell me, how many malays want NEP to end? I rest my case.
Learn our national language, you ignorant buffoons 
Nov 23 2015, 10:30 AM
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