Just curious why you are so active in lowyat? isnt hardwarezone the go to forum for sg?
Nothing against it but just curious.

Reason ppl there are not keen to have in depth discussion on fund investment related topics so I move on. If later this forum also no one is keen I guess will move on too. Just seeking like minded fund investors to discuss on fund topics beyond the usual operating procedures, documents needed, work around etc topics.

Previously I mention there are some funds that do not seek to out-perform against any benchmark? Well just found one closest to Spore.



We have to be careful here when we compare funds in same geography (in this e.g Spore). Based on fund selector the returns for this fund may seem to outperform it's peers but that is "cheating" reason being inside the fund it actually invest in stock that is not in Spore. This can lead to higher or lower returns. From fund selector you select Geography Spore and this fund appears so from outside you thought it is one of them. It is only when you drill in and read the fund factsheet did you realize it is not pure Spore fund. With no benchmark fund it is not an apple to apple comparison to other fund that got benchmark.

Lesson to be learned is to read through each individual fund factsheet to get the actual picture. In my e.g it is Spore but this can easily happen for other geography or sector funds too. This also pose a problem as usually we like to compare ETF with funds, for such fund with no benchmark (aka no corresponding ETF) how to compare?

I am not sure this will be the trend for funds in future. If it is, then it become hard to compare with ETF to know either ETF or fund is better.

Some funds from fund houses are split into two funds but actually they are the same with the same fund factsheet. The difference is the fees levied by each fund. In order to be allowed to take investor CPF investment, it need to fulfill certain criteria and one of them is the fees. Hence the creation of the second CPF fund.

E.g
https://secure.fundsupermart.com/fsm/funds/factsheet/FI3014
Fidelity Emerging Markets A-SGD
annual mgmt charge: 1.5%
annual expense ratio: 1.91%

https://secure.fundsupermart.com/fsm/funds/factsheet/FI3073
Fidelity Emerging Markets SR-ACC-SGD (CPF)
annual mgmt charge: 1.3%
annual expense ratio: 1.71%

Not all fund houses employ the same strategy as some just simply don't take investor CPF monies becuz if take they need to fulfill more stringent criteria.

Before one go to look for such funds (with 2 version), my advice is if the fund does not perform then it is not advisable to invest in either of them. Don't just because the fund can take CPF monies you jump straight into it. It must perform else you are just wasting your CPF monies.

A follow-up to previous post. Some funds from fund houses are split into two or three or more funds but actually they are all the same with the same fund factsheet. The difference is the fund currency. I presume it is to attract investors from different countries? E.g a China and US investor will most likely have at their disposal RMB and USD funds respectively.

E.g
https://secure.fundsupermart.com/fsm/funds/...ties-AM-Dis-USD
Global-Intelligent-Cities-AM-Dis-USD
annual mgmt charge: 1.65%
min. initial: 1000 USD
min. subsequent: 100 USD
min. holding: 1000 USD

https://secure.fundsupermart.com/fsm/funds/...s-AM-Dis-H2-RMB
Global-Intelligent-Cities-AM-Dis-H2-RMB
annual mgmt charge: 1.65%
min. initial: 1000 CNH
min. subsequent: 100 CNH
min. holding: 1000 CNH

Assume we would like to invest in this fund but yet we are a bit worried if it is a wise investment correct? Then it is just simply find your currency that is the "cheapest" to test water. I am using SGD so obviously I will go for the Global-Intelligent-Cities-AM-Dis-H2-RMB fund since CNH 1000 is about SGD 225.66 vs USD 1000 is about SGD 1437.66.

But long time ago another investor told me the currency exchange after some years down the road (assume we intend to hold the fund long term) play a part in your returns. And especially so when you intend to convert back to your SGD. This actually is a reason why he would opt for the USD version instead of RMB version. That was maybe 20+ years ago?

Hmmm... I cannot predict future but if I have followed his advice from 1 USD get 1.8+ SGD to now 1.3+ means I actually get lesser SGD? Looking at now 2021 and beyond I think I have more CNH may perhaps be wiser.

I read somewhere before that it is best to let currency be a liability and no need to do currency hedging on the fund part.

https://www.ft.com/content/20104c9e-58f2-11...b2-d6ceb45fa9d0

Something for you to ponder.

The 2 url I posted above are not hedged. If the fund has currency hedged, it usually will be reflected in the fund name as XXX-H or XXX (hedged) for e.g Yes thanks for sharing will look into it.

Actually some of the fund post I made is actually applicable to FSM Msia (it is generic) also. Just imagine a fund is XXX-SGD and then same fund XXX-MYR and the same scenario I post earlier can be applied. For this case it is SGD,MYR which should one invest? Obviously MYR as it is "cheaper" but then note what the other investor told me years down the road. For SGD,MYR case I may attempt invest SGD instead as I think many years later 1 SGD is going to be much more than the current 3 MYR. I come from the times 1 SGD to 1.8+ MYR to now 3+ MYR. But future is hard to predict so investor need to do some research on their own.

Yes, you are right, I missed the letter "H".

Came across funds that invest purely in ETF.

https://secure.fundsupermart.com/fsm/funds/factsheet/DBS009
https://secure.fundsupermart.com/fsm/funds/factsheet/DBS028

The annual expense of 2-3% is so high for a passively traded instrument. This can explain why the fund size is so small with no investor interest. Surprisingly the funds are launched around 2009 and not yet close down so far. 2.99 million for a fund size that exist for at least 10 years already is a joke.

Have been searching for the most low cost investment for ETF. SA cannot DIY, Syfe can DIY but all come with their annual fee model deducted monthly.

FSM ETF RSP is a bit unique. Low as in 50 can buy into the ETF at 0.08% which for some exchange IKBR charge same too but IKBR I need buy lot size else later hard to sell.

FSM ETF RSP sell comm fee is cheap for oddlot shares since you will get that when you use their RSP program. But I think for US ETF IKBR and others better.

Key concern is want to test water so not willing to put so much perhaps FSM ETF RSP best I found so far. FSM ETF no platform fee also.

Why I want to tread into ETF investment directly is because not all unit trust fund uses the specific ETF I wanted as benchmark so I want to diversify.

This post has been edited by sgh: Dec 19 2021, 05:13 PM

Been reading up on ETF recently. Assume one already have unit trust in most geography and countries, purchase ETF which duplicate with the stocks held in those fund is not stretching your dollar to the max.

One is sell off all your unit trust and re-enter by purchasing the ETF for those geography and countries. This implies giving up those fund returns accumulated over the years (for me is 20+ years) especially on CPF investment.

Second is to use ETF to complement your existing unit trust. I notice there are a lot of thematic/tactical theme play ETF for which stocks are not covered very well in unit trust fund. They are very risky of cuz so none I that I have checked can use CPF investment. All need to transact with cash.

Hence it wouldn't hurt to test water by opting in for the FSM ETF RSP with a low minimum $50 monthly for one ETF. The RSP list seem quite limited can write in to FSM helpdesk ask their research team to review if you want to add in a new ETF into the RSP list.

The selling of ETF RSP for fractional shares via this special RSP arrangement is Flat SGD 1 (SGX), Flat HKD 5 (HKEX). I like the "flat" keyword instead of percentage. Just avoid the FSM US listed ETF as there are cheaper alternatives elsewhere in terms of comm fees paid for selling. But you can only sell once per month at a designated day of the month. For trader I think this is not a good program. It is more for long term ETF investor instead.

Understand the ETF market seem to be all concentrated in US but I find HKEX not that bad too especially if you want to target China,HK specific ETF.

Not sure if any ETF investor notice there are increasingly more new ETF that is marketed as actively managed ETF ? Most of them are under the category of thematic/tactical theme play. ETF has transformed from their passively managed status to actively managed status nowadays drawing closer to unit trust actively managed by FM. The actively managed ETF expense ratio is also slowly creeping up and I came across those with 1.5-2% ! Wow ain't this close or matching unit trust expense ratio?

SPDR® Gold Shares (SGX:GSD)

FSM ETF RSP for above is 300 each month. So high compared to others at 50.

Can just use Ibkr to buy fractional shares for usd0.35/transaction. Way cheaper than FSM hands down.

I am still testing water with ETF. Even with IBKR the upfront capital still alot. My requirement is 50sgd can buy in already. Only when I am more confident will I decide to put in more upfront capital.

I notice IBKR has fractional shares now good but I don't want USD as it is giving me less SGD after exchange. I go with RMB, CNH as that is the future so I shall skip US ETF. For this gold shares ETF listed in SGX still too high for 300 RSP.

I now test water on ETF listed in HKEX, SGX.

This post has been edited by sgh: Dec 25 2021, 04:32 PM

Thank you for keeping this thread alive
I've gone dormant for quite a while

I can understand the perspective of others who complain about UT charges and FSM's platform fees, the lowyat folks tend to be VERYYYY price sensitive if you look around the various cost minimising, free money threads

I continued with FSM SG for the sums invested previously, both in UT and MAPS, to be honest, it's generally better than FSM MY, especially MAPS. I've since divested my FSM MY's managed portfolio due to its lacklustre performance and unclear investment strategy.

I've also started with a few roboadvisor in SG, currently with Autowealth and Syfe core. Autowealth did significantly better than Syfe and Stashaway due to its focus in US equities. I'm not the active investor type so I've no plans to do direct ETF or share trading like most forumers here.

At the end of the day it depends on your investing style. Are you the type who can afford to spend time tweaking your portfolio every other day or you are investing for wealth accumulation but focused on living your life instead.

Recently busy with analyzing Endowus and dollarDex platform. I decide to go with dollarDex for their 0 platform fee, sales charge etc. However dollarDex most funds are at last time minimal 1000 and subsequent top up is much higher at 500. There are of cuz funds with minimum 100 and top up 100 but they belong to the minority. FSM still best for minimal 100 and subsequent top up 100 so far but got platform fees which can be reduced if you reach Gold,Diamond tier.

Then I decide to go for dollarDex for their money market funds. We all know such funds are used for parking monies not for investment but in Spore especially year 2022 the CIMB SG bank fastsaver,starsaver rates it is getting lesser after you cross to higher tier. Money market funds are risk 0 classification so while not capital guaranteed it is almost reaching that I have checked their past 3 months NAV.

Money market funds returns are so low and yet FSM still charge 0.05% platform fees which is what I don't agree so for these I invest with dollarDex. Their higher interest auto-sweep account actually have a 0.2% charge also.

Can share Autowealth what interest are we looking at since you got experience ?

Endowus I will update here later if I got more experience. I am more of a DIY investor rather than going for Robo planned portfolio just for info.

This post has been edited by sgh: Jan 4 2022, 07:05 PM

Not sure if FSM Msia has the same ETF RSP program but in FSM Spore there is and after trying for 2 months I list down 2 examples of the fees I am paying.

Edit: There is actually processing fee but due to promotion this year 2022 it is free hence the fee for the 2 examples you see below
If there is no promotion, the processing fees below
Each ETF RSP Buy
SGX: 0.08% (min SGD 1)
HKEX: 0.08% (min HKD 5)
BATS,NASDAQ,NYSE: 0.08% (min USD 1)

Stock Exchange: HKEX
Name: CAM HK BANKS (3143)
Cash Account: HKD 277.10
Qty: 34.5081
Exchange Settlement Fee(0.00400%) SGD 0.87
Exchange Stamp Duty(0.13000%) SGD 0.00
Exchange Trading Fee(0.00500%) SGD 0.00
Exchange Transaction Levy (FRC)(0.00015%) SGD 0.00
Exchange Transaction Levy (SFC)(0.00270%) SGD 0.00
Processing Fee (0.0%) SGD 0.00
Total Fees SGD 0.87


Stock Exchange: SGX
Name: ICBC CSOP CGB ETF S$ (CYC)
Cash Account: SGD 44.22
Qty: 3
Exchange Clearing Fee(0.03250%) SGD 0.01
Exchange Settlement Instruction Fee SGD 0.37
Exchange Trading Fee(0.00750%) SGD 0.01
Processing Fee (0.0%) SGD 0.00
Total Fees SGD 0.39

Take note even if you put in RSP SGD 50, unlike mutual fund, the exact amount is not being put to buy reason I think FSM need to buffer in the fees and also for some exchange they try to keep to a full share? As you can see the total fees is very little and ETF and stocks in FSM does not incur platform fee.

Ok now about the disadvantages of this ETF RSP program

1. FSM decide the list of ETF (70+) that can be RSP. You can write in to let them consider add new ETF
2. ETF bought via this program with fractional shares can only be sold once a month put in request before 15th of month
Edit: ETF bought via this program can be sold via normal exchanges via FSM but you incur fees SGD 8.80 flat and you sell full shares but then you no need to fulfill the once a month sell process so can sell anytime
3. For selling via this ETF RSP fees are below
Singapore (SGX) - Flat SGD 1
Hong Kong (HKEX) - Flat HKD 5
United States (NASDAQ, NYSE, BATS) - 0.08%, no minimum or flat fees <- this is also the reason why I don't buy ETF in US exchanges as selling is this number which I think is expensive compared to say IBKR

So for investor with low capital can consider this ETF RSP program. For FSM Msia maybe can feedback to them to have this same program as FSM Spore.

This post has been edited by sgh: Feb 10 2022, 04:19 PM

I chatted FSM MY when they launched US stock trading but they have no idea when ETF RSP plan will be launched in MY.

For US ETF RSP, so the processing fee is SGD 8.8 flat or 0.08% with no minimum?

US ETF RSP will be 0.08% but for selling via the same program it is also 0.08% with no minimum unlike SGX flat SGD 1 and HKEX flat HKD 5.

I think US ETF RSP maybe IBKR to buy ETF fees is cheaper. The only big difference I see is capital as 50 can buy in already and the 2022 promotion with 0.processing fee from FSM except the typical exchange fees etc. And for some custodian is FSM in own country instead of say US.