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 Aircon Discussion V3, Home Appliance

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mini orchard
post Jun 6 2021, 08:51 PM

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QUOTE(shinchan99 @ Jun 6 2021, 06:55 PM)
hi all,
anyone got experience/review using sharp inverter j tech air con?
*
You must have reasons why you selected Sharp. Tell us why ?
yongtjunkit
post Jun 6 2021, 09:25 PM

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Hi, anyone here have any idea why my Panasonic CS-S13RKH-1 indoor unit fan speed suddenly slow down during operation when the fan speed is set to High(full speed, cool mode)?
mini orchard
post Jun 6 2021, 10:12 PM

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QUOTE(yongtjunkit @ Jun 6 2021, 09:25 PM)
Hi, anyone here have any idea why my Panasonic CS-S13RKH-1 indoor unit fan speed suddenly slow down during operation when the fan speed is set to High(full speed, cool mode)?
*
For non invertor, once the preset temp is achieved the compressor will cut-off and the indoor blower speed will reduce. Once the room temp increases, the compressor kick start again and the fan speed increases.

For invertor (I dont own a unit), it should work the same way, except it wont cut-off but reduced operation to maintain the set temperature.

The way how non invertor operates increases electricity usage as compared to invertor ...that is what many people claimed.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jun 6 2021, 10:17 PM
shinchan99
post Jun 6 2021, 10:22 PM

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QUOTE(mini orchard @ Jun 6 2021, 08:51 PM)
You must have reasons why you selected Sharp. Tell us why ?
*
price point is cheaper.. you have any feedback or experience using this brand? Never tried this brand air con before, and realize many air con shop don't carry them as well..
mini orchard
post Jun 6 2021, 10:31 PM

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QUOTE(shinchan99 @ Jun 6 2021, 10:22 PM)
price point is cheaper.. you have any feedback or experience using this brand? Never tried this brand air con before, and realize many air con shop don't carry them as well..
*
Sori I dont own a unit. Just want to know why you select Sharp.

Ms CEO will come to help you soon.

I only use 1 brand for the house. Easy for trouble shoot and not many technicians know various brands when non common problem arises....merely relying on trial and error.
excaliburcombo
post Jun 6 2021, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(mini orchard @ Jun 6 2021, 10:12 PM)
For non invertor, once the preset temp is achieved  the compressor will cut-off and the indoor blower speed will reduce. Once the room temp increases, the compressor kick start again and the fan speed increases.

For invertor (I dont own a unit), it should work the same way, except it wont cut-off but reduced operation to maintain the set temperature.

The way how non invertor operates increases electricity usage as compared to invertor ...that is what many people claimed.
*
Inverter also when achieve set temp will cut off compressor same like non inverter. The different is gradual turning on current while non inverter got surge (on/off only). Example new car got fuel consumption you can monitor. When you full throttle let say example 15L per 100KM. When you gradual increase throttle it go 5L to 8L and so on. When you get off from traffic light you open much throttle vs you slow build up speed is really effecting full consumption.

And yes my the electric bill decrease when swapping 4 inverter device at my house.

Attached Image
SUSceo684
post Jun 7 2021, 12:34 AM

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QUOTE(mini orchard @ Jun 6 2021, 10:12 PM)
For non invertor, once the preset temp is achieved  the compressor will cut-off and the indoor blower speed will reduce. Once the room temp increases, the compressor kick start again and the fan speed increases.

For invertor (I dont own a unit), it should work the same way, except it wont cut-off but reduced operation to maintain the set temperature.

The way how non invertor operates increases electricity usage as compared to invertor ...that is what many people claimed.
*
Correct.. for NON inverter the compressor only have one speed setting which is full speed.. every start operation from 0 rpm consume the most electricity
So its programmed to minimise the amount of start stop as little as possible.

So NON AC operating pattern is, you set 25C target temp.
It will run full speed to overcool to 23C.. then turn off compressor.
Room will warm up.. let it warm up.. once reach 26C time to start work again

then it repeat the 23C - 26C cycle again and again for a 25C target temp.
The overcooling to 23C is why people say NON inv models are colder than INV.


QUOTE(shinchan99 @ Jun 6 2021, 10:22 PM)
price point is cheaper.. you have any feedback or experience using this brand? Never tried this brand air con before, and realize many air con shop don't carry them as well..
*
In aircon, its just like cars..not all are good..some can be lemon model.
So in terms of AC whilst Sharp is generally reliable, my partner been using Sharp AC all along its pretty reliable, not all series are created equal (w.r.t cooling performance/BTU).

Currently the series you should get is the one where 1hp = 9700btu and 1.3hp = 12600 btu.
9000btu 1hp is consider low end.

So AHX9VED / AHX12VED series is the one to look for if you're getting Sharp.


QUOTE(mini orchard @ Jun 6 2021, 10:31 PM)
Sori I dont own a unit. Just want to know why you select Sharp.

Ms CEO will come to help you soon.

I only use 1 brand for the house. Easy for trouble shoot and not many technicians know various brands when non common problem arises....merely relying on trial and error.
*
I use commonly available brands. In my parents' house we have dinosaur Toshibas, Mitsu Mr Slim, and Hitachi INV/NON biggrin.gif For seldom-used place (only run maybe 2 weeks in a year) a NON inv will suffice (just to tick the box "yes we have aircon") laugh.gif

Personally I use Hitachi INV for frequently used areas (living room and bedroom) in my own apartment. Just so happened they were available at reasonable pricepoint with good cooling capacity btu.

QUOTE(excaliburcombo @ Jun 6 2021, 11:06 PM)
Inverter also when achieve set temp will cut off compressor same like non inverter. The different is gradual turning on current while non inverter got surge (on/off only). Example new car got fuel consumption you can monitor. When you full throttle let say example 15L per 100KM. When you gradual increase throttle it go 5L to 8L and so on. When you get off from traffic light you open much throttle vs you slow build up speed is really effecting full consumption.

And yes my the electric bill decrease when swapping 4 inverter device at my house.

Attached Image
*
Yes, the diff between NON and INV is the running pattern after the aircon already reach target temp. Before it reach target temp, all AC also run full speed.
So (1) the target temp need to be an achieveable one like 25C. If set to 16C freezer it will have no savings from INV since it take a long time to achieve that target (might as well buy NON)

And after that target temp say 25C is achieved..
(2) why people say INV can have cost savings in terms of power consumption
the INV can run like a car once you hit speed limit just hold it there (maintain cruising speed) it won't use much fuel. As the aircon compressor still running (slowly) it will continue to dehumidify the room (so NOT stuffy)

(3) why INV can have better comfort (less stuffy)
Unfortunately the NON can only in either full pedal or not pressed at all - there is no in between.
So the driving pattern will be up-and-down temp and fuel consumption also increase. When compressor off (refer operating pattern above "NON AC operating pattern") there is NO dehumidifying here (since compressor is OFF) so user feel stuffy = (typical user behaviour) to keep the aircon compressor ALWAYS running = set to 16C lor = no cost saving.

(4) frequency of usage
for AC that the intended usage is only 2 weeks in a year, NON also good enough. The operating cost saving take too many decades to recover the purchase price diff.
for AC that is frequently used, the power consumption saving can ROI in few years especially at 3rd tier TNB and onwards (0.51c/unit or higher) quickly, so it makes sense to get an INV for lower TCO (total cost of ownership)

This post has been edited by ceo684: Jun 7 2021, 12:40 AM
yongtjunkit
post Jun 7 2021, 07:57 AM

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QUOTE(excaliburcombo @ Jun 6 2021, 11:06 PM)
Inverter also when achieve set temp will cut off compressor same like non inverter. The different is gradual turning on current while non inverter got surge (on/off only). Example new car got fuel consumption you can monitor. When you full throttle let say example 15L per 100KM. When you gradual increase throttle it go 5L to 8L and so on. When you get off from traffic light you open much throttle vs you slow build up speed is really effecting full consumption.

And yes my the electric bill decrease when swapping 4 inverter device at my house.

Attached Image
*
Oddly my temp was set to 16C at that time( indoor fan suddenly rev down eventhough the fan speed is set to high)

Is that Normal on Panasonic Inverter AC?
shinchan99
post Jun 7 2021, 08:11 AM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Jun 7 2021, 12:34 AM)
Correct.. for NON inverter the compressor only have one speed setting which is full speed.. every start operation from 0 rpm consume the most electricity
So its programmed to minimise the amount of start stop as little as possible.

So NON AC operating pattern is, you set 25C target temp.
It will run full speed to overcool to 23C.. then turn off compressor.
Room will warm up.. let it warm up.. once reach 26C time to start work again

then it repeat the 23C - 26C cycle again and again for a 25C target temp.
The overcooling to 23C is why people say NON inv models are colder than INV.

In aircon, its just like cars..not all are good..some can be lemon model.
So in terms of AC whilst Sharp is generally reliable, my partner been using Sharp AC all along its pretty reliable, not all series are created equal (w.r.t cooling performance/BTU).

Currently the series you should get is the one where 1hp = 9700btu and 1.3hp = 12600 btu.
9000btu 1hp is consider low end.

So AHX9VED / AHX12VED series is the one to look for if you're getting Sharp.
I use commonly available brands. In my parents' house we have dinosaur Toshibas, Mitsu Mr Slim, and Hitachi INV/NON biggrin.gif For seldom-used place (only run maybe 2 weeks in a year) a NON inv will suffice (just to tick the box "yes we have aircon")  laugh.gif

Personally I use Hitachi INV for frequently used areas (living room and bedroom) in my own apartment. Just so happened they were available at reasonable pricepoint with good cooling capacity btu.
Yes, the diff between NON and INV is the running pattern after the aircon already reach target temp. Before it reach target temp, all AC also run full speed.
So (1) the target temp need to be an achieveable one like 25C. If set to 16C freezer it will have no savings from INV since it take a long time to achieve that target (might as well buy NON)

And after that target temp say 25C is achieved..
(2) why people say INV can have cost savings in terms of power consumption
the INV can run like a car once you hit speed limit just hold it there (maintain cruising speed) it won't use much fuel. As the aircon compressor still running (slowly) it will continue to dehumidify the room (so NOT stuffy)

(3) why INV can have better comfort (less stuffy)
Unfortunately the NON can only in either full pedal or not pressed at all - there is no in between.
So the driving pattern will be up-and-down temp and fuel consumption also increase. When compressor off (refer operating pattern above "NON AC operating pattern") there is NO dehumidifying here (since compressor is OFF) so user feel stuffy = (typical user behaviour) to keep the aircon compressor ALWAYS running = set to 16C lor = no cost saving.

(4) frequency of usage
for AC that the intended usage is only 2 weeks in a year, NON also good enough. The operating cost saving take too many decades to recover the purchase price diff.
for AC that is frequently used, the power consumption saving can ROI in few years especially at 3rd tier TNB and onwards (0.51c/unit or higher) quickly, so it makes sense to get an INV for lower TCO (total cost of ownership)
*
hi again ceo,
Many thanks for your recommendations.. What about their parts availability for Sharp? Easily available?
I also read your comments on suggesting Gree Queen series.. Any feedback or review on this brand?

mini orchard
post Jun 7 2021, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(yongtjunkit @ Jun 7 2021, 07:57 AM)
Oddly my temp was set to 16C at that time( indoor fan suddenly rev down eventhough the fan speed is set to high)

Is that Normal on Panasonic Inverter AC?
*
Buy a digital thermometer and put in your room to monitor.

You may set at 16 but not all areas inside the room is 16. The area nearest to the ac will reach 16 quicker. Not all cool air from blower reaches the other end of the room. Some are recirculated back to the coil and repeats. That is when the sensor picks up the air temperature and rev down the fan speed.

You may be surprised if the fan rev down when the thermometer shows 18 to 20.

Sometimes a faulty sensor can also be the cause.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jun 7 2021, 10:03 AM
excaliburcombo
post Jun 7 2021, 01:07 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Jun 7 2021, 12:34 AM)
Yes, the diff between NON and INV is the running pattern after the aircon already reach target temp. Before it reach target temp, all AC also run full speed.
So (1) the target temp need to be an achieveable one like 25C. If set to 16C freezer it will have no savings from INV since it take a long time to achieve that target (might as well buy NON)

And after that target temp say 25C is achieved..
(2) why people say INV can have cost savings in terms of power consumption
the INV can run like a car once you hit speed limit just hold it there (maintain cruising speed) it won't use much fuel. As the aircon compressor still running (slowly) it will continue to dehumidify the room (so NOT stuffy)

(3) why INV can have better comfort (less stuffy)
Unfortunately the NON can only in either full pedal or not pressed at all - there is no in between.
So the driving pattern will be up-and-down temp and fuel consumption also increase. When compressor off (refer operating pattern above "NON AC operating pattern") there is NO dehumidifying here (since compressor is OFF) so user feel stuffy = (typical user behaviour) to keep the aircon compressor ALWAYS running = set to 16C lor = no cost saving.

(4) frequency of usage
for AC that the intended usage is only 2 weeks in a year, NON also good enough. The operating cost saving take too many decades to recover the purchase price diff.
for AC that is frequently used, the power consumption saving can ROI in few years especially at 3rd tier TNB and onwards (0.51c/unit or higher) quickly, so it makes sense to get an INV for lower TCO (total cost of ownership)
*
Yes notice when temp achieve the first time (mine 27C) the compressor will stay at much lower load. Then the compressor will turn off and on after awhile. Not sure the mode select cause this. Im using auto mode panasonic inverter (got read it will switch cool and dry mode).

Attached Image
yongtjunkit
post Jun 7 2021, 01:37 PM

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QUOTE(mini orchard @ Jun 7 2021, 10:02 AM)
Buy a digital thermometer and put in your room to monitor.

You may set at 16 but not all areas inside the room is 16. The area nearest to the ac will reach 16 quicker. Not all cool air from blower reaches the other end of the room. Some are recirculated back to the coil and repeats. That is when the sensor picks up the air temperature and rev down the fan speed.

You may be surprised if the fan rev down when the thermometer shows 18 to 20.

Sometimes a faulty sensor can also be the cause.
*
Does that could potentially mean that the ac needs some cleaning as well? Recently cleaned the coil and blower fan with water



This post has been edited by yongtjunkit: Jun 7 2021, 01:37 PM
skywalkercrewz
post Jun 7 2021, 01:40 PM

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hi, any one can suggest which is better for my office for daily used from 8am to 6pm. tq..

Acson A5WMY 15S 1.5HP (R410A)
BTU 12,100 (4,400-13,000)
MEPS STAR : 4star

Acson A3WMY 15N 1.5HP (R32)
BTU 12,100 (4,400-13,000)
MEPS STAR : 4star

Daikin FTKU35AV1LF 1.5HP (R32)
BTU 12,100 (4,000-13,000)
MEPS STAR : 5star

Panasonic X-Deluxe CS-XPU13WKH-1 1.5HP (R32)
BTU 12,500 (3,480-14,000)
MEPS STAR : 5star
mini orchard
post Jun 7 2021, 01:43 PM

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QUOTE(yongtjunkit @ Jun 7 2021, 01:37 PM)
Does that could potentially mean that the ac needs some cleaning as well? Recently cleaned the coil and blower fan with water
*
When was the last the outdoor unit is cleaned ? That can also affect the cut off if the coil is dirty.

If is quite sometime, then service the complete set.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jun 7 2021, 01:53 PM
yongtjunkit
post Jun 7 2021, 02:37 PM

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QUOTE(mini orchard @ Jun 7 2021, 01:43 PM)
When was the last the outdoor unit is cleaned ? That can also affect the cut off if the coil is dirty.

If is quite sometime, then service the complete set.
*
Almost a year ago(approx 11-12 months ago)

btw, is there any guide on how to DIY wash the ac compressor?

This post has been edited by yongtjunkit: Jun 7 2021, 02:48 PM
SUSceo684
post Jun 7 2021, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(shinchan99 @ Jun 7 2021, 08:11 AM)
hi again ceo,
Many thanks for your recommendations.. What about their parts availability for Sharp? Easily available?
I also read your comments on suggesting Gree Queen series.. Any feedback or review on this brand?
*
Sharp parts availability in MY pretty good in general, either get from stockist or Sharp Roxy itself; as you can see some of the common bits can even buy on shopee.

https://shopee.com.my/SHARP-143-STEPPER-MOT...8938.4685889494

https://shopee.com.my/SHARP-2059-CROSS-FLOW...8938.9441224500

R32 Gree Queen Inverter latest series on paper spec is good
there's quite a lot of people who installed CN brand as well in my 2-year old rumaweep like Gree/Midea/Haier but previous Gree series (when we got the keys back then) didn't impress me as they only bring in NON series.

QUOTE(skywalkercrewz @ Jun 7 2021, 01:40 PM)
hi, any one can suggest which is better for my office for daily used from 8am to 6pm. tq..

Acson A5WMY 15S 1.5HP (R410A)
BTU 12,100 (4,400-13,000)
MEPS STAR : 4star  bye.gif

Acson A3WMY 15N 1.5HP (R32)
BTU 12,100 (4,400-13,000)
MEPS STAR : 4star bye.gif

Daikin FTKU35AV1LF 1.5HP (R32)
BTU 12,100 (4,000-13,000)
MEPS STAR : 5star

Panasonic X-Deluxe CS-XPU13WKH-1 1.5HP (R32)
BTU 12,500 (3,480-14,000)
MEPS STAR : 5star
*
Either one of the 5-star will work well.
Can also consider the Hitachi RAS-SX13CJ ~RM1699 around the same price range. 2/10 wty.
12,640 (3,070-14,330)BTU/h
5-star ST

https://shopee.com.my/HITACHI-1.0HP-1.5HP-R...8273.9333020076



This post has been edited by ceo684: Jun 7 2021, 03:39 PM
mini orchard
post Jun 7 2021, 04:07 PM

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QUOTE(yongtjunkit @ Jun 7 2021, 02:37 PM)
Almost a year ago(approx 11-12 months ago)

btw, is there any guide on how to DIY wash the ac compressor?
*
B4 washing the ODU, please make sure you have a proper place to stand, otherwise you might have a missed footing and fall.

Off the switch to the AC.

Use a strong pressure hose to spray water at the coil. That is all. No chemical needed. The pressure is enough to wash all the dirt down.
yongtjunkit
post Jun 7 2021, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(mini orchard @ Jun 7 2021, 04:07 PM)
B4 washing the ODU, please make sure you have a proper place to stand, otherwise you might have a missed footing and fall.

Off the switch to the AC.

Use a strong pressure hose to spray water at the coil. That is all. No chemical needed. The pressure is enough to wash all the dirt down.
*
I see, can sprayers like this be used, garden hose is a bit far away from the outdoor unit

user posted image
mini orchard
post Jun 7 2021, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(yongtjunkit @ Jun 7 2021, 04:13 PM)
I see, can sprayers like this be used, garden hose is a bit far away from the outdoor unit

user posted image
*
I use garden hose for my IDU and ODU units and is 40m long (special order) so I cant comment I think is also depends how much dirt is trapped.

Give it a try. You may need to refill few times.

My iDU cleaning bag


Attached Image

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jun 7 2021, 04:32 PM
SUSceo684
post Jun 7 2021, 07:30 PM

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QUOTE(yongtjunkit @ Jun 7 2021, 04:13 PM)
I see, can sprayers like this be used, garden hose is a bit far away from the outdoor unit

user posted image
*
One of these LINK (25m hose) will work.. if you live in mansion then can use connector to extend a few rolls of hose together.. generally this Hokah neon green is reinforced so it won't give silly problems like kinking halfway.

Generally one long hose either 10m or 25m should work for most places.. and its cheaper than calling a AC cleaning service coz you just need to wash out the dust at ODU fins only. Standard water pressure will do. Too high pressure eg from karcher machine will bend the delicate fins.

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