there is a common underlying problem with Italy and Juve and that is we can play to a really slow tempo and disinterested mindset occasionally. this sort of scenario is actually not helping. we need to get this habit or problem rooted out

anyone watching?

just tuned in 30minutes in the 1st half

..and funny Allegri talking about having a "best defense". "Best defense" win the championship

Lazio just cut our defenses like nobody business over there to made it 1-1 zzzzz

ah things going from bad to worse...

That's it

Dybala with a 2 out of 2 missed PK. Maybe let someone take the PK duties for a while...

all the blame game can go everywhere

Higuain couldn't score goal to save his life
Dybala crumbled under pressure
Chiellini & Barzagli has passed it
Allegri with a mediocre tactical switch or such
Khedira the weak link in midfield trio

b4 Saturday, Juve were unbeaten against Lazio in the league since 2003

not only that, the home streak of 41 matches were gone and what made it hurt the most, is that former Juve player always find a way to inflict some damage. Giovinco, Palladino, and now Immobile

anyway, its behind us now. Sporting Lisbon is in the horizon.

Anything other than a 3pts is unacceptable, bcoz if we didn't, i would say we're probably saying a goodbye to a knockout stage of UCL. Bcoz with the current showing, if Immobile can inflict such damage to our aging backline, guess what Messi & co. gonna do

and not to mention we've to played Sporting in Portugal and Olympiakos in Greece nonetheless

i agree with all that you mentioned. Bazargli is clearly past it. Football is not charity, if you are done you should be gone. He should be benched and be played only in the coppa. Khedira is also past it. In fact, he was truly good only in his first season. Dybala is a wonderful talent with poor mental strength. Until he get past it, he can never be a true elite. Heck, even Paul Pogba has way better mental strength than him. Higuain? Clearly a person lacking in confidence and support. Fact that Dybala is poor mentally, Douglas Costa and Federico Berna yet to truly blend adds to the problem. As for Manzu, I think he should be shifted to be a defensive midfielder playing along side Pjanic. Manzu's attributes are now more defensive midfield beast than a winger or a striker

Allegri? His obsession with not conceding is now affecting the team. Team always crumble whenever we fall behind. Defense wins you league and attack wins you the CL. We are good in neither currently =_=

This post has been edited by Jusstatic: Oct 17 2017, 08:44 AM

its funny when just last week Allegri said "Defense win u championship"

while looking at Juve's defense now, with our rate of conceding 1 goal per match, that's sounds nothing like a "best" defense

i remember reading somewhere that some Juve fan blast Asamoah on twitter. To be fair, Asamoah probably one of a few player with a good showing vs Lazio, but
even that. fans blasted him for passing back behind 9 out of 10 times when he got the ball. Just like i said, a "counter-productive" approach to attacking

all were leading from what u said, Allegri's obsession of NOT CONCEDING

exactly. to add, i notice our defenders have alot of the ball and most of the time passes were aimless. cant blame them but why are the ball circulation done so much by the defenses to begin with? and when the ball did go up our midfielders and attacking players bar higuain all show lack of creativity and the ability to get past opponents. this is something truly worrying

This post has been edited by Jusstatic: Oct 17 2017, 04:41 PM

and just a good luck, Italy got Sweden in WC playoff...

good piece of article heading to the UCL tie tonight

https://www.blackwhitereadallover.com/2017/...le-how-to-watch

anything other than a win is UNACCEPTABLE tonight

don't think about Barca

don't think about where Barca gonna finish

don't think about beating Barca

bcoz right now getting 3pts vs Sporting is an IF, getting 6pts vs Sporting is an even bigger IF

after that, then, we can be worried about Barca

This post has been edited by noir7559: Oct 18 2017, 11:30 PM

WHOA GUYS.

I've been away for a few days but definitely up to date on our results.

I'm not sure what to say; a draw against Atalanta, a loss against Lazio meant we dropped 5 points and now 4th or 5th in the table.

Something I am definitely not used to after our successes over the last 6 years!

Like most of you guys have mentioned, I think our defence is struggling quite a bit. BBC...now without one of the B's, we thought we could cope, but clearly..Barzagli is just not able to keep up with the younger strikers and midfielders.

Maybe it's time for Allegri to inject some new life into the team, and I mean by trusting the new players more. For example Costa, Bernadeschi, Matuidi, Bentancur, Howedes etc. These guys are just waiting to prove themselves...but from Allegri's perspective, I think maybe he needs more time to assimilate these guys into the team. Plus we've not had a full team available in a LONG while, there's always someone out injured. I mean, we missed Pjanic for a month - and he scored last night?! So maybe we need to assess ourselves again when we do have a full team available to play.

On a positive note though, we beat Sporting - although many reports are saying that it was a hard fought win by Juve and that we were uninspired? Anyone watch the game?

It'll be good to get back on our feet against Udinese this weekend. Allegri says our season starts in November...so we'll see.

just watched the delayed match

Juve look nervous during the opening 20 minuted, leading to Sandro's own goal, but after that they regained some composure leading to Pjanic brilliant free-kick equaliser and could've added the 2nd minutes later by Mandzukic

2nd half Juve looks quite nervous(again) in the opening, but the introduction of Costa giving an immediate impact with his great cross followed by a "pure grinta" goal by Mandzukic

not our best performance but a win is a win, esp after some gloomy week post-Lazio...

*might i add that Sporting nearly snatched a point at the death through Seydou Doumbia...and Buffon face told everything about a sight of relief.
Talking about lack of concentration & falling asleep near the end of the match

This post has been edited by noir7559: Oct 19 2017, 11:44 AM

Man,

That is worrying from a fan's perspective. When Buffon gives the sigh of relief look.

Allegri also said that we had been losing concentration/falling asleep a few games before our draw with Atalanta; I really hope this is not a sign of things to come

alot of it is down to allegri's coaching. his and mourinho are the same, effective but boring team play. problem is, mourinho is the master of it but allegri is still a level below. hence 2 CL finals 0 wins. Mourinho 2 CL finals won 2

be cool guys. remember 2015/16 season, juventus was not on top of the table until week 25. the winning streak started only on week 10, juventus was 10-ish on the table?

Perhaps it's time again for allegri to tweak his formation, get a stable defence. Rugani is the future. Caldara need to come back in January to prepare him for better UCL run.

someone really need to come out from Juve mental block, just like Cuadrado did it on 2015. Mandzukic had been in very fine form of late, he might run out of steam too soon. So, I guess it's either Dybala/Higuain re-emerge as protagonist again, or Costa/Bernadeshi should step up. We already have surprise package in Bentacur. Hope we get another one or two.

Meanwhile Carlo coming back if Max did not deliver UCL?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/469...e-super-league/

Wow, Mourinho, 2 CL finals and he won both eh? That's quite impressive to be honest.

I haven't really sat down to watch many of our games this season actually - due to many reasons - but I always watch the highlights. But as usual, the highlights are called such because they show only the best moments of the game and the goals. Haven't really been able to assess our games in entirety. So I can't really comment on Allegri's coaching for now.

Perhaps he needs to do something like the switch in formation last season which was a revelation to the team, everyone sort of clicked better and our games were faster paced.

Also we have the case of getting the new boys adjusted to the team which can take a while, but we've already seen glimpses of brilliance from Matuidi, Bentancur, Bernadeschi and Costa...so we'll see. It's still a long season ahead and anything can happen I guess. Most important is to not let our closest rivals gain momentum, because once they are on a roll, it'll be hard to stop.

That's the issue with being spoilt as Juve fan these last few years, so used to being at the top, leading the table, winning etc that a slight slump in our performance feels like it's over for us. In some ways it is good to be brought back to reality and humbled. Also with due respect to our rivals, they are also playing good football and should not be under estimated in any way.

Honestly, I don't remember that we did not lead the table till week 25 of the 2015/2016 season and I think that's a good thing because it means we still have a chance. I agree with the mental block, I think some of our key players are facing it at the moment. Probably, the longest one in a mental block is Higuain, Dybala seems to be entering one as well despite his brilliant start this season. Someone has to re-ignite the fire somehow; I think Allegri did it when we switched formations last season. Now that we have fluidity in our style of play, perhaps one of the players has to carry the team; I'm guessing it might come from one of the new players.

Despite every other article reporting that our win against Sporting was uninspired or laboured, I think a win is still a win and the players can benefit from that morale boost for this weekend against Udinese. It will be a good game to test our mental strength and I think the players will also want to prove to themselves that we are still in it for the scudetto.

Regarding Ancelotti, I'm quite a loyalist and it would be sad to see Allegri go if he did not win the CL or Scudetto...he has had a pretty good run with us and Juve might reward him despite one unsuccessful season; but this is football and we are chasing the CL as well. The thought of Ancelotti is actually quite enticing especially after his successes in so many different leagues...especially European success.

yes, and also 2 Europa Finals and won 2 as well

Anyway, Allegri's selection and attacking play really does not suit Higuain, Dybala or Pjanic. Why? If you notice, we have Mandzu and Cuardrado on our wings and Khedira or Matuidi as box to box bombing into the box. Now here comes the problem, let me list why Manzu, Cuadrado and Khedira/Matuidi as box to box is making our attack rely alot on individual brilliance instead of fluid attacking play:

- Mandzu

Mandzu is a fan favourite and a player that symbolizes pure grinta and the Juve way. We all like him, we really do. However, despite his power house stats defensively, do not forget he is an attacker after all and an attacker playing at the wrong position. With the attributes Manzu have, I think he should be well off playing as a defensive mid beside Pjanic. In a 4-2-3-1 formation, the winger (left wing, the position he is playing at currently) needs someone with pace, dribbling, creativity, ability to play the final ball and ghosting in the box to score. Now Manzu has the ability to ghost into the box, but he hardly scores nowadays and he sorely lacks pace, creativity, final ball and dribbling abilities. As a result, this indirectly caused all responsibilities to lie SOLELY on Dybala. So what happens? You mark Dybala, Juve will be ineffectual in the final 3rd. Hence, Dybala has increasingly lost his influence in the past 2 3 games, Higuain's supplies cut off

- Cuardrado

So Cuadrado is a winger and in a 4-2-3-1 formation he fits right? A big no as well. Like I mentioned before, as a winger in a 4-2-3-1, you need to have pace, dribbling, creativity, ability to play the final ball and ghosting into the box to score. Cuadrado has pace, some dribbling skills but painfully no creativity, awful at passing and making the correct decision on when to pass and when to bring the ball. So no final ball playing ability and only rare occassional ability to ghost into the box to score. So what happens? Left wing we are having Mandzu's lack of attacking attributes and right wing we are having the same. So, as usual, all dribbling, creativity, final ball and ghost into the box responsibilities will lie SOLELY on Dybala. Again, you mark Dybala, Juve will be ineffectual in the final 3rd, Higuain will be starved of supply to score

- Khedira/Matuidi

So now lets come to our issues in midfield. The mid can also help in attack and help Dybala out right? Well, not quite under Allgri's tactics. You see, allegri's idea is to get Pjanic to sit in midfield and pass, Matuidi or Khedira (depends on who plays) box to the box to score and box back to our box to defend right? Well, not if we are playing Matuidi or especially Khedira. After his great first season, Khedira seems to have lost it. Nowadays you dont see him in our box helping to defend and rarely you see him bomb to opponent box to score or cause problem. And when he did go into the opponent box, he always seem to lack the composure to finish off the chance or mis control the ball. To make things worse, Khedira seems to get dominated in games very easily. He also is unable to pick a teammate out with a superb pass or has the creativity to see a final ball pass. The same can be said about Matuidi but currently, Matuidi is slightly more effective bombing into the opponent box and covering defensively in our box. So what does this result in? It result in for midfield, Pjanic has to play like a Xavi/Fabregras (super passing to help our Dybala) and also to bomb back to our box to help out in defense. Now, we all know Pjanic does not have great defensive ability and never will. Bombing back to our box to defend will result in him unable to concentrate in attack to help the already overloaded Dybala and will also cause him to lose stamina / gassed very easily. Hence, if you all notice, Pjanic usually slow down alot or kena dominated in midfield during the second half

So, if both our key creative players Dybala (Severely marked and overloaded) and Pjanic (bogged down with defensive duty due to the ineffectiveness of Khedira / Matuidi resulting in Pjanic losing stamina or gassed very easily) are tied down with the various issues, how is Higuain ever going to score or how are we going to be effective in attack? Do not mention we scored alot in our first few games as that is solely down to Dybala's individual brillance and a pre injured Pjanic

Pjanic and Dybala are our only keys. They get locked down, we are toast unlike last season if both Dybala and Pjanic are not performing we still have Bonucci to pick the pass and Dani Alves to create chances from right back / right wing

So until Allegri solves this, we are still going to struggle and even if we do get it right and win the Serie A again, we will yet again lose another CL final. The above I mentioned was what Real Madrid exploited in the second half result in our 4-1 thrashing. Heavy mark Dybala, overload Pjanic defensively, high press Bonucci to prevent him from making long passes and isolate Dani Alves at right wing. The result, you get a Higuain vs 4 defenders all by himself. Khedira sink without a trace, Mandzu while scored a superb goal rendered totally useless due to his lack of attacking ability as a winger. Attacking threat from Juve = 0 at second half

This post has been edited by Jusstatic: Oct 20 2017, 10:12 AM

Dude, I read every word of what you typed and damn was that good analysis or what.

Thing is, if you can figure it out, I'm sure Allegri or his assistants can too? Unless they can't then we're really in trouble this season.

From what you're saying, it is due to the ineffectiveness of some of our players which result in other players being over-worked that is causing us trouble in mid and defence and it looks like the other teams are beginning to realise this.

I just hope Allegri makes some changes where necessary.