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 The Official Lowyat.NET Sintua Thread, A thread on Chinese folk religion.

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SUSredisthcan
post Jan 5 2015, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE(Brusky @ Jan 5 2015, 10:19 PM)
Hi Nacht,

I bought a Buddha bust made from wood and Crystal cube laser engraving "Guan Gong", and I display them in my display cabinet. is it ok to display them as ornament? am I being disrespectful? 
Hi Brusky, a statue of a god that has not been consecrated can most definitely be used as an ornamental piece. Treat it respectfully (e.g. not bring it into a toilet, not allow it to be marred/vandalised, not allow it to become dirty or grimy) and you'll be fine.
Brusky
post Jan 5 2015, 10:37 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 5 2015, 10:27 PM)
Hi Brusky, a statue of a god that has not been consecrated can most definitely be used as an ornamental piece. Treat it respectfully (e.g. not bring it into a toilet, not allow it to be marred/vandalised, not allow it to become dirty or grimy) and you'll be fine.
*
None of them is consecrated and I think is proper if I gave it away so others can consecrated and used it as an object of worship.
SUSredisthcan
post Jan 5 2015, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(Brusky @ Jan 5 2015, 10:37 PM)
None of them is consecrated and I think is proper if I gave it away so others can consecrated and used it as an object of worship.
That's very altruistic of you. rclxms.gif

I'm still hoping that more people who are familiar with Chinese folk religious practices will come into this thread to participate. Which is not to be disparaging of everyone else who has posted so far, of course; for people who are not of the faith, some of you are asking really intelligent questions. Keep the queries coming!
Wolger
post Jan 6 2015, 01:49 PM

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nachtsider

Great thread TS. It's something useful to find references like this in English, a bit hard if you're non-Chinese speaker.

keep for later studying.
SUSredisthcan
post Jan 6 2015, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(Wolger @ Jan 6 2015, 01:49 PM)
nachtsider

Great thread TS. It's something useful to find references like this in English, a bit hard if you're non-Chinese speaker.

keep for later studying.
No problem, Wolger! I want to make this a useful resource for practitioners, mere enthusiasts, and the casually curious alike.

While I will update the thread with information provided of my own accord, it is your questions and comments that should ideally serve as fuel for the fire.

Feel free to ask about any of the gods or ritual practices, and I will answer your queries to the best of my ability.
iwubpreve
post Jan 6 2015, 02:43 PM

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this consider Taoism?
SUSredisthcan
post Jan 6 2015, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(iwubpreve @ Jan 6 2015, 02:43 PM)
this consider Taoism?
Not quite.

Sintua/Chinese folk religion contains a number of elements that Taoism does not agree with, such as mediumship, and worships a number of gods that Taoism either does not acknowledge or pays only very slight lip service, such as the Monkey King, Datuk Gongs, many of the Hell beings and Guan Yin.

It does include a number of Taoist concepts such as Tai Sui worship, yes, but interprets them in its own way.

I would regard sintua and Taoism to be like Judaism and Christianity - similar but not the same.
iwubpreve
post Jan 6 2015, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 6 2015, 02:48 PM)
Not quite.

Sintua/Chinese folk religion contains a number of elements that Taoism does not agree with, such as mediumship, and worships a number of gods that Taoism either does not acknowledge or pays only very slight lip service, such as the Monkey King, Datuk Gongs, many of the Hell beings and Guan Yin.

It does include a number of Taoist concepts such as Tai Sui worship, yes, but interprets them in its own way.

I would regard sintua and Taoism to be like Judaism and Christianity - similar but not the same.
*
in my hometown my grandma house, there are few statue, God of prosperity, Judge of Hell, Kuanyin on top, then 5 kiddo at bottom then behind got 1 kitchen guardian kind of stuff. Taoism, no?
SUSredisthcan
post Jan 6 2015, 03:06 PM

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QUOTE(iwubpreve @ Jan 6 2015, 02:58 PM)
in my hometown my grandma house, there are few statue, God of prosperity, Judge of Hell, Kuanyin on top, then 5 kiddo at bottom then behind got 1 kitchen guardian kind of stuff. Taoism, no?
If Guan Yin is there, my answer would have to be 'no'.

By 'five kiddos', I think you are referring to the Five Ghosts/五鬼将军. They are childlike ghostly creatures who act as assistants and runners for the higher ranking Hell beings.

user posted image
jonoave
post Jan 6 2015, 08:55 PM

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While I don't subsribe to the beliefs, it's still very interesting to learn and read about the stories and folk religion

it's good that there are people like you around to keep the culture alive. thumbup.gif


EnergyAnalyst
post Jan 7 2015, 09:51 AM

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What is the purpose of self piercing and mutilation during the trance of a temple medium?
SUSredisthcan
post Jan 7 2015, 10:17 AM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Jan 7 2015, 09:51 AM)
What is the purpose of self piercing and mutilation during the trance of a temple medium?
Another good question. nod.gif

Self-mutilation is usually performed only for very specific purposes.

The first purpose is empowerment. Certain ritual items used for self-mutilation correspond to certain deities. Pic #1 shows an example - a set of nine spikes, corresponding to nine Hell soldiers known as the Nine Yin Warriors/九阴军.

user posted image

When a medium wishes to imbue himself with the power of the Nine Yin Warriors for the purpose of conducting a ritual, he will pierce his body with the spikes (see pic #2).

user posted image

The second purpose for self-mutilation is to shed divinely imbued blood. When a medium is in trance, the divine essence of the gods they are channelling courses through their bodies, and by extension their bodily fluids, too, such as blood, sweat, tears and so on. Self-mortification is done for the purpose of drawing the energised blood, which can then be used as a magic ingredient to activate ritual items and prepare talismans with; it can also act as a repellent against demonic creatures or other evil beings. The objects used to self-mutilate are special ritual weapons such as axes, swords, spiked balls and so on.

Pic #3 shows a medium mutilating his tongue to draw blood. He is channelling a Hell deity (Elder Brother) and the weapon he is using is a special abacus with a blade fixed onto the top frame - Hell deities use abacuses to calculate people's sins and merits, plus their estimated lifespans.

user posted image

Pic #4 shows a ritual fan that has been energised/activated by being daubed with drops of blood.

user posted image
JunJun04035
post Jan 7 2015, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Jan 7 2015, 09:51 AM)
What is the purpose of self piercing and mutilation during the trance of a temple medium?
*
DISPLAY divinity, i guess?


SUSredisthcan
post Jan 7 2015, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(JunJun04035 @ Jan 7 2015, 10:20 AM)
DISPLAY divinity, i guess?
In comparison to the reasons I've outlined above, this is of little importance.

The gods do not necessarily bother if you believe in them or otherwise.
Wolves
post Jan 7 2015, 11:24 AM

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QUOTE(JunJun04035 @ Jan 7 2015, 10:20 AM)
DISPLAY divinity, i guess?
*
hmmm.. that is more like a secondary purpose.. not the real or primary purpose.. imagine if you want to be medium for say monkey king.. what do you think the medium should be like? a monk? or normal folk who wore like taichi master clothes? it would be normal to mimic the monkey king as much as possible.. the hat with two long "tail" thingy and at the min his long staff.. if not how would the monkey king know that is the "medium" for him? so.. "recognisable" medium is one.. second is these "gods" sometimes have their own "special" stuffs/weapons that they carry or is linked to.. it might be a source they "draw" their ability from.. like the guy above mention.. the 9 yin warriors.. or the abacus which that particular deity carry and use most and perform his duty with.. just putting it in logic ways.. if they need it in their time and "realm" to perform their duty.. if they "cross" here... its natural they need it to do their "stuff" right? i think thats what the guy trying to explain...

lets put this into current world perspective.. if you were to cosplay... say kirito in sword art online.. what do the cosplayer need? imagine the cosplayer is the medium.. well.. thats roughly the same idea... the cosplayer needs to be a guy since kirito is a guy (of coz there are crossdresser but hey.. we are talking about the respect and norm here).. he needs his two swords (items kirito used in the anime) and a black attire.. as close as possible to the anime right? only then you know he is cosplaying as kirito.. in the ritual aspect.. the medium plays a bit different role.. instead of "acting" like the person cosplayer wanna mimic.. the medium is trying to "invite" the spirit/god to enter into him.. so he needs to look as "close" to the deity as "humanly" possible... of coz if the spirit is monkey king you dont expect the guy to be hairy like a monkey or what.. just as humanly possible.. they are good "spirit/deity/god".. they will forgive the shortcomings and they aint gonna punish you that bad if you dont look exactly like them... just do their best to look like them will do... and unlike the cosplayer where they try to "act" like the anime character.. medium invites the spirit to perform duty the spirit's "power/ability/duty" whatever the ritual is about.. so they need their "stuff/weapon/whatever they need"... get it? and since the mutilation/weapons/method is the spirits own "stuff" it wont affect/harm the medium as he is protected by such spirit/god/enlightened beings.. i think thats the main reason behind it.. of coz.. the "show" power part as i said is more like the "side effects" of such act where ppl goes... "wah.... kena poke till like pin cushion still ok... wah... bleed the tongue and bla bla bla still no problem..".. as i say.. those stuff they do wont harm the medium since they are protected by the spirit/deity/god and those items or stuff is theirs in the first place.... so.. dont lar say they show off tongue.gif not good you know tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Wolves: Jan 7 2015, 11:27 AM
SUSredisthcan
post Jan 7 2015, 04:10 PM

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QUOTE(Wolves @ Jan 7 2015, 11:24 AM)
hmmm.. that is more like a secondary purpose.. not the real or primary purpose.. imagine if you want to be medium for say monkey king.. what do you think the medium should be like? a monk? or normal folk who wore like taichi master clothes? it would be normal to mimic the monkey king as much as possible.. the hat with two long "tail" thingy and at the min his long staff.. if not how would the monkey king know that is the "medium" for him? so.. "recognisable" medium is one.. second is these "gods" sometimes have their own "special" stuffs/weapons that they carry or is linked to.. it might be a source they "draw" their ability from.. like the guy above mention.. the 9 yin warriors.. or the abacus which that particular deity carry and use most and perform his duty with.. just putting it in logic ways.. if they need it in their time and "realm" to perform their duty.. if they "cross" here... its natural they need it to do their "stuff" right? i think thats what the guy trying to explain...

lets put this into current world perspective.. if you were to cosplay... say kirito in sword art online.. what do the cosplayer need? imagine the cosplayer is the medium.. well.. thats roughly the same idea... the cosplayer needs to be a guy since kirito is a guy (of coz there are crossdresser but hey.. we are talking about the respect and norm here).. he needs his two swords (items kirito used in the anime) and a black attire.. as close as possible to the anime right? only then you know he is cosplaying as kirito.. in the ritual aspect.. the medium plays a bit different role.. instead of "acting" like the person cosplayer wanna mimic.. the medium is trying to "invite" the spirit/god to enter into him.. so he needs to look as "close" to the deity as "humanly" possible... of coz if the spirit is monkey king you dont expect the guy to be hairy like a monkey or what.. just as humanly possible.. they are good "spirit/deity/god".. they will forgive the shortcomings and they aint gonna punish you that bad if you dont look exactly like them... just do their best to look like them will do... and unlike the cosplayer where they try to "act" like the anime character.. medium invites the spirit to perform duty the spirit's "power/ability/duty" whatever the ritual is about.. so they need their "stuff/weapon/whatever they need"... get it? and since the mutilation/weapons/method is the spirits own "stuff" it wont affect/harm the medium as he is protected by such spirit/god/enlightened beings.. i think thats the main reason behind it.. of coz.. the "show" power part as i said is more like the "side effects" of such act where ppl goes... "wah.... kena poke till like pin cushion still ok... wah... bleed the tongue and bla bla bla still no problem..".. as i say.. those stuff they do wont harm the medium since they are protected by the spirit/deity/god and those items or stuff is theirs in the first place.... so.. dont lar say they show off tongue.gif not good you know tongue.gif
This is actually a very insightful post, Wolves. I'm curious, haha - are you involved with Chinese folk religion in any shape or form, or do you at least have a cosplay background?

Mediums often dress up as they deities they are channelling; it is often said amongst those in the trade that the more authentic the resemblance provided by the costume and makeup, the smoother the trance will proceed, as the medium effectively becomes a duplicate physical body for the deity - a second skin, so to speak.

That being said, the gods do not select mediums on the basis of physical resemblance, lol.

Here is a particularly authentic-looking Monkey King medium.

user posted image
Wolves
post Jan 7 2015, 05:23 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 7 2015, 04:10 PM)
This is actually a very insightful post, Wolves. I'm curious, haha - are you involved with Chinese folk religion in any shape or form, or do you at least have a cosplay background?

Mediums often dress up as they deities they are channelling; it is often said amongst those in the trade that the more authentic the resemblance provided by the costume and makeup, the smoother the trance will proceed, as the medium effectively becomes a duplicate physical body for the deity - a second skin, so to speak.

That being said, the gods do not select mediums on the basis of physical resemblance, lol.

Here is a particularly authentic-looking Monkey King medium.

user posted image
*
sorry.. no cosplay and no sintua or chinese folk involvement... i am what they call a scholar or study geek.. i study anything and everything and i do come across the topic of "religion" and did some "study" in it.. and yes.. the closer the "resemblence" the smoother the "transition"... i think some ppl on the second page mention why no xtians or other religion who "experience" or why certain ppl are "selected" being the medium... and i remember you also mention your sifu is chosen coz previous life he not very good or something and as punishment... he was chosen... erm... i would like to challenge that notion/thinking... base on what i have read... actually... its a bit long as it involves a few theories... =.="

hmmmm... after second thought.. i think i might explain.. for those who dont like to read.. stop here.. for those who wish to know why.. read on.. its very long... first the thought of reincarnation.. this of coz comes from buddism point of view.. this world is called samsara.. the world of suffering... one of the 4 noble truth.. i spare you the details.. in this world.. life is suffering.. to get out of this world of suffering.. you must get out of the wheel of rebirth.. the wheel of rebirth has 6 path... human is one of the "better" path but it still world of suffering... when you get out of the wheel of suffering... you are what they called enlightened beings.. arahats is the lowest of the enlightened beings... ji gong.. the monk who travel and have powers and so call drinks and stuff.. he is an arahat... in chinese pin yin its called luo han.... lady guan yin is bodhisatvas... the highest few of the enlightened beings.. these enlightened beings.. which some refer as god or spirit or what... is "closer" to the inhabitants of the world of samsara since they just escaped the wheel of rebirth.. hence.. can easily "connect" with us and "influence" us.. and help us.. you seldom see stories where "buddha sakyamuni" was involved in our world.. the ones you hear is before his passing to the other side and claim the title "buddha"... bodhisatvas as well when they "cross over" they will be buddha.. its a phase... and di zhang pu sha... its actually translated as earth store bodhisatvas.. actually he is as "enlightened" as buddha... at his time.. two of them were able to attain the title buddha but he did not cross as he symphatized humans and see them suffering in the realms of hungry ghost and hell.. hence.. instead of "crossing" over to the other world.. he went down the realm of hell and decided to help the beings there to get enlightened and reduce suffering and help them overcome their bad karma... and he vowed he will not cross over until there is no longer any beings that is still in this world (as oppose to what you say about nobody left in hell.. ).. ie.. he will he the last to cross over.. ok.. background story set..now.. how do you determine where is your rebirth.. there is 6 path.. it all depends on your karma... 3 "better" realms.. 3 "worse" realms... and if you were to go "human realms".. how your birth is determined? lots of ppl ask.. why my life like that... why my habit like that... why i always face this problem... this is the answer the those qs.... and they are because........... next paragraph... another long story..

karma.. everything one does.. it accumulates karma.. be it good.. bad.. or neutral.. and where you ended up will depends on what karma you have accumulated.. karma is 3 types... i spare details on that.. thats another big topic.. if you have good karma.. and you are to be rebirth as human.. you will be rebirth into a good family... but if you have bad karma.. and chosen to go to human realms.. but on poor conditions.. if you are a buddist in previous life.. chances are you will have a better intellectual/smart... thats what i heard.. coz you study a lot and you broke a lot of obstacles so when you are rebirth.. you are born with less "obstacles" in life and you can seek out knowledge a lot easier.. whatever you do.. you create these karmic knots.. if you bully a begger... in the next life you will meet this begger but instead of him.. you would be the begger begging him... if you treat your wife badly.. next life you might be the wife bla bla bla... karma... what goes around comes around.. and humans are suffering because of these karma as well.. thats why they say ppl who have unfinished karmic knots will have to stay in the realms of rebirth until they untie all of them.. and gained enuf good karma to be out of the wheel of rebirth... ok.. i think i go a bit lengthy de.. anyway... there is no right or wrong path.. right or wrong deities.. or religion... every religion could lead you to the path of enlightenment.. but how you know which one is for you.. easy.. the one you are the most at ease with.. the enlightened beings.. all of them are compassion and will come to help every living soul.. how connected you are to any of them... depends on your accumulated karma... or what you have done before.. maybe TS was a ghost general for the deity before.. hence in this life... he is "connected" to the hell beings.. who knows.. or maybe TS was a fren with one of the generals down there.. and that general talk abt him and decided to help him.. we dunno.. one thing we know is.. we are more drawn to one or a few of such good spirits.. and they will try to come and help us.. to point us the way.. not to worship them i mind you.. they are just helping... and they can see past into our past lives.. some ppl can see their past life.. a lot of example of these... and see what they had done.. you can go to any temple and check if there is a person where whom can do it.. some rely on a book... and mind you.. that book is written over 1000 years ago and its still useable even until today.. that book can tell you past lives.. the most direct one.. and what you have done.. what you are blessed with this life coz of it.. and what you owe in the previous life... and you need to pay back and how.. anyway.. this also tells us why certain ppl are good with certain stuff.. i have heard a 5 years old kid who had never learned piano and can instantly play the highest grade piano and he just remember it off his head... and some ppl are "talented" or more drawn to something... these.. are all karma.. another good and living example.. the dalai lama... the current one was reincarnation of the previous one and the previous one and previous one... now he is 14th reincarnation.. he chose to be reincarnated coz he has a "duty" to fulfil before he cross over.. and hence he kept reincarnated and ppl "can find him"... he left signs that its him for the ppl to "find" and know its him..

ok... its getting a bit long winded.. i have heard base on the rebirth and karma and "what you bring over from past life" theory... due to the previous "path/religion" taken... it could also means that last life if he was a strong christian.. this life he technically will be "drawn" to christians... and so on and so forth... and since he is a "strong" christian follower.. it only makes sense he will do as what his "deity" tells him to... and if we bring this example to our brother here... it also means that his guru.. in previous life was a loyal and strong follower of sintua religion.. and he was particularly "holy" or very very devoted... hence this life.. he is "easily connect" and resume from his previous life.. this is proven by babies or kids who are sensitive.. those who had opened their sixth sense/third eye/second vision as TS put it in his religion (same thing.. diffferent sect refers them differently).. in their previous life when they see.. they also had opened them... thats why when borned in this world... the eyes are not really "shut" as they had utilize them in past life and its too strong.. that is why they say do not "close" it if possible and if you do close it.. his fate in this life will have a drastic change.. since there must be a reason or things he need to do this life thats why he "forcefully" try to kept it open... i dunno.. it could be by accident tongue.gif wuahahah.. anyway.. some ppl can "feel" at young age.. can "see" at young age... or half vision as one guy put it.. i believe they are all connected to what they did in previous life.. one more thing... in the karma explaination.. its a long topic but bear with me... there is a mentioning that you will be reborned into a place where most of the ppl you meet.. even your father and mother and siblings were ppl you had connections with previous life.. your father.. mother.. siblings.. sons.. grandsons... friends.. wife... gf bf... ex gf and ex bfs.... they are here in this world with two purpose.. one.. to "pay" back your good doings in previous life.. or to make you "pay back" what you owe them in previous life.. have you notice there are some ppl you wanna hate but cannot hate? you wanna avoid but cannot avoid? some ppl are nice to you but no reason and some gals are attach to evil ppl and do whatever they wish? well.. thats the explanation to it... anyway.. i better stop de tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Wolves: Jan 7 2015, 05:24 PM
Wolves
post Jan 7 2015, 05:37 PM

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anyway.. base on the last paragraph above.. i believe your guru/sifu was a very holy and devoted sintua practitioner in his previous life.. it can be seen by how he do stuff.. i am sure he is kind and helpful and very compassionate towards others.. and base on the theory i said.. these were brought forward from previous life.. and to be able to be "chosen".... in previous life.. he must be one hella holy fella that even the deity so like him and hence can easily "go into his body" and so on and so forth.. and he acquired blessings and protection from the deity... hence.. i think you should "study" more on that... i believe its a blessings and not a punishment... smile.gif thats my two cents..

This post has been edited by Wolves: Jan 7 2015, 05:38 PM
EnergyAnalyst
post Jan 8 2015, 12:26 AM

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One particular lady medium that I know actually said despite how many times since young in her life that she has turned away and attempted to deny her 'duty' to become the medium and help people. Her fate and her life was so bad each time she turned her back, she was divorced, she has a son that she has to let him addressed her by name and not by being called 'mom' , her other livelihood and businesses failed. She had a very difficult childhood that remained difficult to her adulthood.

She has said at the end , she has to concede and surrender to her chosen path, not by her own choice but by the deity that has chosen her and she has mentioned that she has been a very bad person in her previous lives so she has to do this until her bad deeds of former lives are all equalized by being medium to let Deity help people who sought for help through her.

Being a medium is hardwork... it is not a chosen profession but rather hard works bestowed on those who are born to have such destiny to 'pay back' in such ways.

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Jan 8 2015, 12:27 AM
JunJun04035
post Jan 8 2015, 12:38 AM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 7 2015, 10:55 AM)
In comparison to the reasons I've outlined above, this is of little importance.

The gods do not necessarily bother if you believe in them or otherwise.
*
OH, when i reply that, i forgot about the imbued power of the blood into talisman/charm (符箓)

BTW, personally, I am not a religious person and I am not even close to believe in such deities. But again, I am Chinese Malaysian, I grew up around this stuff even though my parents is strictly agnostics and do not pray in any form. Thus come the curiosity to study, especially sintua is very popular among some sub-group of our community. (sorry to say so and i apologize if I hurt or insult your feelings)

However, I find it very difficult to learn about this, as I always being chased away from the sintua, due to my "not believing" state.

nod.gif

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