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 The Official Lowyat.NET Sintua Thread, A thread on Chinese folk religion.

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EnergyAnalyst
post Jan 1 2015, 11:21 AM

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Interesting. Good thread to subscribed to. If you don't mind, please share with me what is eight immotals' place in the whole scheme of things?

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Jan 1 2015, 11:23 AM
EnergyAnalyst
post Jan 3 2015, 01:06 PM

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Hi Nacht
Is the road side praying/favor seeking ' a proper:act' according to your sifu teaching? What are the repercussion if it has gone wrong?
EnergyAnalyst
post Jan 7 2015, 09:51 AM

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What is the purpose of self piercing and mutilation during the trance of a temple medium?
EnergyAnalyst
post Jan 8 2015, 12:26 AM

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One particular lady medium that I know actually said despite how many times since young in her life that she has turned away and attempted to deny her 'duty' to become the medium and help people. Her fate and her life was so bad each time she turned her back, she was divorced, she has a son that she has to let him addressed her by name and not by being called 'mom' , her other livelihood and businesses failed. She had a very difficult childhood that remained difficult to her adulthood.

She has said at the end , she has to concede and surrender to her chosen path, not by her own choice but by the deity that has chosen her and she has mentioned that she has been a very bad person in her previous lives so she has to do this until her bad deeds of former lives are all equalized by being medium to let Deity help people who sought for help through her.

Being a medium is hardwork... it is not a chosen profession but rather hard works bestowed on those who are born to have such destiny to 'pay back' in such ways.

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Jan 8 2015, 12:27 AM
EnergyAnalyst
post Jan 8 2015, 09:55 AM

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QUOTE(arthur88 @ Jan 8 2015, 09:34 AM)
this 唤醒 me of my way of praying to gods at temple...
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asking for help (health recovery, peace, career /businesses' obstacles removal or subduing ) is ok, i guess, but asking for money , wealth, kena number, Kena loteri is too much, some temple actually blatantly tells you 'we are not that kind of place' shakehead.gif

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Jan 8 2015, 09:56 AM
EnergyAnalyst
post Jan 11 2015, 01:50 PM

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Hi Nacht.

I have heard so many versions of origin of nine emperor gods but what would think true orgin would be depicted here


http://www.nine-emperorgods.org/legend/


QUOTE
The Nine Emperor Gods consist of the following:

1. “Gou Chen Tian Huang Da Di 勾陈天皇大帝” (Vega Star)
2. “Bei Ji Zhi Wei Da Di 北极紫微大帝” (Polaris Star)
3. The 7 Northern Constellation Stars (called “Bei Dou Qi Xing 北斗七星”):
a. “Tan Lang 贪狼”
b. “Ju Meng 巨门”
c. “Lu Chun 禄存”
d. “Wen Qu 文曲”
e. “Lian Zhen 廉贞”
f. “Wu Qu 武曲”
g. “Po Jun 破军”
My question is isn't Tan Lang and Po Jun regarded as bad stars?
If so why do we pray to them?
EnergyAnalyst
post Jan 17 2015, 09:26 PM

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Nachtsider

Havecyou cinsideed arranging all these facts and mad it into a guidebook ?
EnergyAnalyst
post Jan 22 2015, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 22 2015, 04:00 AM)
Who is Lord Xuan Wu?

user posted image

user posted image

Lord Xuan Wu/玄武 or Xuan Tian Shang Di/玄天上帝 (the Supreme Emperor of the Dark Heavens) is a major Heavenly warlord, a dispeller of evil spirits and patron of all martial artists. He has thirty-six Heavenly generals under his command, plus their respective armies.

Xuan Wu was once human, a warrior prince who gave up his throne after realising how much suffering his battles and campaigns had caused. He went off into the wilderness to become an ascetic, and to perform penance.

Whilst out in the wilderness, he helped lost travellers, defended isolated villages from bandits and did many other heroic/selfless deeds. His penance, however, culminated in him ritually disembowelling himself, so great was his guilt.

Immediately after he had performed this act, Guan Yin intervened. She was moved by his true repentance, and his sincere desire to become a better man. The prince became a divine warrior, a defender of the righteous path - Lord Xuan Wu.

His entrails, which he had removed upon disembowelling himself, turned into manifestations of the evil and sin that he had purged from his being - into a giant demonic serpent and tortoise, which caused great havoc and chaos in the land. Xuan Wu subdued them, thus finally overcoming his former wrongdoings. The serpent and tortoise now serve as his familiar animals/assistants.
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actually i read a version that he was a butcher...which one is true? rclxub.gif

http://www.taoistsecret.com/taoistgod.html#8
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post Jan 22 2015, 04:38 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 22 2015, 04:25 PM)
When in doubt about a deity's origin story, always go with the earliest version of the legend; in the case of Lord Xuan Wu, the 'warrior prince' story is the earliest version.

It is interesting how Xuan Wu's story bears certain similarities to that of the Buddha.

The fellow who runs that website has a very dubious reputation, by the way - he is a self-styled 'doctor' who promotes unethical spiritual practices.

Many of the gods he describes as 'Taoist' are in fact not Taoist at all.
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ok, good advise. TQVM
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post Jan 28 2015, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 27 2015, 06:35 PM)
You have been taught the proper basic behaviour, which is highly commendable, although there certainly is more to the nuts-and-bolts of prayer.  notworthy.gif

I make it a point to be at my most presentable before attending a temple. This includes having a shower and putting on fresh clothes. If you are female, visiting a temple when you are menstruating is not advisable; menstrual blood, so heavy in yin energy, is a substance that confounds/contaminates the temple's spiritual 'ecosystem' and prevents rituals from being optimally conducted.

Certain taboos exist where it comes to certain deities, and one should be mindful to adhere to them. For instance, one should not consume non-Halal items before praying to Datuk spirits, or offer them such items. It pays to do one's research where it comes to these matters.

Your first port of call when you get to the temple is the altar to the Heavenly Hosts/the Jade Emperor; this is usually represented by a large urn standing just outside the main entrance. An offering of three incense sticks, representing Heaven, Earth and Humanity, is the standard for most Heavenly gods, and applies here. As per folklore, incense sticks serve 'to waft your prayers/wishes to the gods', akin to smoke signals.

Standing with the urn in front of you and with your back to the main entrance, clasp the incense sticks in both hands, bow your head  or bow at the waist, and make your prayer while remaining bowed. Once you are done, place the incense sticks in the urn using your left hand; this hand is closer to the heart, the seat of Yang energy, and using it thus also creates a gesture of sincerity.

Most large temples have a double door as the main entrance, with small side entrances flanking it. Do not enter via the main entrance, but via the small entrance to the right of the double door instead (the right side is always favoured first, as this is the side that represents Yang, while the left represents Yin). The main entrance is reserved for the deities' use, and is also the prime conduit for the temple's spiritual energies.

Next, head for the main altar in the interior of the temple; this will display the principal deity to whom the temple is dedicated. This deity need not necessarily be the most senior deity enshrined within, but are nevertheless the next in line. A three stick offering will again be the order of the day - this is in deference to the fact that they are the 'guest of honour'. Same prayer procedure as before, with you facing the main altar this time.

You then similarly pay your respects to the other deities in the interior, travelling in an anticlockwise direction. In other words, once you have paid your respects at the central altar, you then make offerings to the deities enshrined to the right of the altar, and then the deities enshrined to the left of the altar (again, Yang over Yin). After this, you exit the temple through the small entrance to the left of the double door (once more, Yang over Yin), and pay your respects to any deities enshrined outside.

The other deities will often consist of a mixture of Heavenly gods, Earth gods and Hell deities. As above, most Heavenly gods will warrant a three-stick offering - unless there are specific indications that individual offerings are a must, you can collectively offer three sticks to a group of Heavenly gods (this will be apparent when only a single incense urn is placed before two or more statues). There are one or two exceptions, such as the Five Camp Commanders, a group of Heavenly warriors who are collectively offered five sticks instead of three (I will speak more about them later).

The Earth gods are normally collectively offered five incense sticks, as they are fivefold, in charge of the soil of all five cardinal directions. And the Hell deities are normally collectively offered seven incense sticks. Seven is a number associated with the Yin aspect and death - each phase of the moon, a Yin heavenly body, is a seven-day cycle, seven seven-day periods, totalling forty-nine days, are how long it supposedly takes for a newly-deceased soul to sever itself from the mortal realm (see my previous posts on the 'bail period' that a soul receives prior to heading for the Netherworld), and the Hungry Ghost Festival takes place during the Seventh Lunar Month.

The general order in which one pays their respects is Heavenly gods first, Earth Gods next, and Hell deities last (you've got it - Yang over Yin). Once you are done, drop an offering into the temple's donation box if you feel like it. You are not obliged to make an offering, but if you do, the offering is traditionally commensurate with the seriousness of the problem for which you are seeking assistance.

As previously mentioned, it is very bad manners to bald-facedly make demands of the gods, especially if you haven't been a particularly good person. But a sincere, virtuous individual in genuine need of help - that's another story. You need not provide your particulars, nor need you necessarily go into all the nitty-gritty details; merely saying something along the lines of the following will do: "Sir/madam, I am in a time of need. I know I may not necessarily deserve help, but if you somehow deem me worthy of assistance and decide to smile upon me, I would be very much obliged. Thank you in advance." Neither does your prayer have to be said out loud.

Attending a temple with no desire to seek assistance is more than acceptable - in fact, I pretty much always attend temples with no requests in mind whatsoever. You adhere to the same procedure as above, but your prayer will obviously be different. Something along these lines is fine: "Sir/madam, I am here to pay my respects - I hope that you enjoy my offerings, and that you have a good day."

Hope this helps.  biggrin.gif
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wow this CNY, I bet will be able to teach even older folks in my family about a thing or two thanks to nacht and earn their respect notworthy.gif
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post Jan 30 2015, 09:56 AM

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Hi Nacht

I am full of questions and need your advise....

First, about death, i have heard so many story about asking the well being of the dead via 问米 practice and medium. I have no personal experience but have heard so many stories but remained ill informed and unconvinced despite however firmly those that have experienced it spoken of it with such conviction

How is this possible? Since the dead are all either locked up in hell for all sort of punishment, or get reborn once drinking Meng Poh soup the and crossing the 奈何 bridge ?

If indeed 问米 is a proper practice, then Which deity is helping with this process? etc.?


My second questions:

Since Chinese deities are all having their own area of expertise, if we want to seek help for some common problems (non monetary) we faces, can you recommend which is the deity we should turn too

A. Heath
B. Love affair
C. Mental Health/Depression
D. Career
E. Study

I know i am asking a lot but i sincerely hope you can help educate us, when the student is ready, please be the sifu




EnergyAnalyst
post Jan 30 2015, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 30 2015, 10:43 AM)
Hi Energy,
Dying is all about letting go - about severing earthly ties, including ties with your surviving loved ones. Such ties will only serve to hinder spiritual cultivation on the other side, and hinder the process of escaping the cycle of death and rebirth.

It is for this purpose that the fates of the deceased, including the nature of the penance they are paying, plus whether or not they have reincarnated, are not something that is disclosed - not in detail, at least. The Hell deities are the custodians of such information, and it is only through them that such information may be obtained. They are the facilitators, the go-betweens.

In response to queries about deceased loved ones, the Hell deities may give some very general comments ("Don't worry; all is well." "He is undergoing his training." "She is making progress."). They may instruct one to increase the frequency of ancestral offerings, which may indicate that the deceased are progressing well or being model inmates, and thus deserving of more. They may instruct one to offer specific items on specific dates, which may be instrumental in assisting the spiritual cultivation of the deceased. They may occasionally convey a message from the deceased, although this is extremely rare and usually occurs only early in the game. Otherwise, don't expect very much to be revealed.

Do not put ANY credence in someone who claims to be able to directly channel the spirits of your deceased relatives (i.e. make them speak through him or otherwise possess his body). Souls cannot be raised or recalled to the human realm just like that.
Physical and mental health are matters that one should visit a doctor or psychiatrist/psychologist about, first and foremost. It is quite common for a deity to advise a sick person to seek medical or psychiatric help. Do not make a temple or sintua your first port of call when you are ill - dial the emergency services number or get to a hospital instead.

I will be posting some information about gods who specialise in these assorted matters later today and later in the weekend. Don't touch that dial. smile.gif
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notworthy.gif as usual , good answers and most importantly a trustworthy and honest answers.

Just to clarify: when someone feel ill, yes a GP is sought first, if still have no remedies, specialist are sought, in a case of my very close one, we have visited so many specialists clinics at Sunway X 2 specialist, Pantai X 3 speciliats, and some other specialists clinics. but the problem still persisted and not cured. and all i can see is a prolonged suffering, i heard some temples are famous for praying for and asking for healing, There is one in PJ but we don't see improvement, may be it is because we have prayed wrongly or not sincerely enough....I am seeking for a god of healing/health to answer my prayer so appreciate it if someone whom i can trust to point the rightful way (God knows how many are con man, like the medium who claim can call out for the ded spirit to come back and talk through them)

TQVM , looking forward to later today or later in weekend rclxms.gif
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post Feb 3 2015, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Feb 2 2015, 07:42 PM)
Hi Energy, such a case of illness that is not responsive to repeated attempts at medical treatment would be appropriate to approach the gods about, yes.

Lord Zhang the Serpent-Queller is a Heavenly deity whom I have spoken about earlier in the thread; see the post below for more information about him:

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=72420996

There is a very prominent Lord Zhang temple, situated in Klang, that has a reputation for wonders. This is the Tian Hock Keng/天福宫, located at Lot 3115, Jalan Stakap, Jalan Tepi Sungai, Teluk Pulai, 41100 Klang (GPS coordinates 3° 3'1.09"N, 101°25'39.08"E).

The establishment holds consultation sessions on Wednesdays at 8 p.m., and on Sundays at 12:30 p.m. You can call Master Ng, the temple's medium, at 012-696-5555 to arrange a booking.

Hope this helps. smile.gif

user posted image


TQVM.
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EnergyAnalyst
post Feb 9 2015, 11:59 AM

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I would add. Faced with two choices, he dropped down and pray to the god he believes in and quickly ask for help. Toss a coins. Head means save the engineer. Tails means save the children.

Let god decides.

That or who knows some sort of miracles may come along, if it agrees with Him or Karma

Food for thought: how do one not know the fact that one will get saved and one would not is not all act of god or karma in play?

does that means you are less guilty? That will never be the question: one is either born a sinner or ending up still as human being and hence still resides in the human world spectrum and subject to all pains and suffering and karma

Whatever helps you pass this life better, whomever you want to believe in. It is your freewill.

None is holier than other. Holding up the believe I am holier than thou is the cause of many suffering in the world today. History is full of such lessons. We should be humble for we are so tiny in thebigger scheme of tgings

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Feb 9 2015, 12:02 PM
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post Feb 9 2015, 02:28 PM

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Let me help bring the thread back to its topic if i may...

isn't Sun Wukong also known as the Monkey King, a fictional character created by author of Wu Cheng'en 吴承恩 's Journey to the West 西遊記?

It is one thing to pray to a legendary hero, one believed to have lived once, but to pray to a truly man-made/ fictional one is another.

Please clarify.
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post Feb 11 2015, 06:47 AM

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Oh brother. Charles Darwin must be right, we must have all evolved from apes . perhaps that is why praying to monkey king is not all that wrong because

We may be praying to our ancestor. Oh at least an ancestral being that must have existed before us.

Heck if enough people believe in Darwin, it will come to form anyway

Lightened up. This is still kopitiam, albeilt more serious stuff
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post Feb 12 2015, 09:01 PM

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Nacht:

I am just curios... Hope u don't mind me asking... You are working at emergency room at hospital, right.? Do you help praying or utter some kind words of 'rest in peace' to the recently deceased in ER, especially them whom you were attending to?
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post Feb 13 2015, 12:30 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Feb 13 2015, 11:09 AM)
I do, as a matter of fact.

The fact that I pray to the Hell beings is actually quite relevant to my job as an ER doctor, as I deal with those who are at death's door on a very regular basis.
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cool cool2.gif so kind of you
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post Feb 28 2015, 07:31 AM

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Who are on the board of directors then?
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post Mar 2 2015, 09:57 AM

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Hi Nacht, I remember when I was growing up, there are two deities that my dad and mom were praying to and they are situated at the edge of our beds and one above side of stove/cooking area respectively.

I seldom see them being prayed to in modern houses, but never quite too sure why...

Can you share with me what are their stories, their origins, etc.?

Thanks

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Mar 2 2015, 09:57 AM

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