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 [V26] Lowyat.Net Mechanical Keyboard Club

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Patent
post Mar 11 2015, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(dadudeneverabides @ Mar 11 2015, 12:05 PM)
For tactile switches, let's just talk about MX series only. Topre surely out of your range and Matias doesn't have that many keycaps available.

MX Browns are considered scratchy MX Reds. After using them for a long time, I have to say that although this assessment is correct, but I would call it unfair because I actually enjoyed using these scratchy reds as they give me a little feedback on actuation of switches.

Next would be the hallowed MX Clears. Clears have a more significant bump, which also translated to a more pronounced tactile experience. HOWEVER, it's actuation force is actually quite high, and most users who jumped from Browns to Clears suffer from significant fatigue.

Personally, I felt a lot fatigue even moving 5g upwards due to my typing habits (just floating above the keys, and trying my very best not to bottom out).

Having said all that, I now introduce to you the REAL poison of the MKB world: custom switches.

Easiest to be done are the MX Ergo Clears (shortened to eClears from now on). eClears have the advantage of accepting any actuation force from 50g to 62g. Anything lower won't bounce back up, while anything tougher makes no sense as you can just use stock clears. Chief among the so-called poison is the need to lube the switches, as well as almost insane amount of consistency tuning needed to make the switches feel and react the same way. A well tuned eClear is the closest feel I get to Topre.

One of my favourites, and also the biggest time-sink and expertise required will be Jailhouse Blues (JHB). JHB involves locking up the slider on MX Blues with either copper/steel wire or thin o-rings (also known as the insanitarium). This in effect shortens the travel time, reduces the loudness (esp for the insanitarium build) and turns the Blues from clicky to tactile. The closest feel I can describe it with is something akin to MX Clears.

So, in the end, what switches you end up with is up to you, but I suggest that you do a LOT more homework on the world of tactile MX switches (sans exotic types) before committing to one.
*
Thanks for the explanation. I don't know how much the weight gonna affect me because i always bottom out when typing.
Its just that I read so many recommend clears for better tactility makes me want to try it.
Oyaji
post Mar 11 2015, 02:22 PM

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I wonder which kb switch is suitable for people who always bottom out during typing?

Then where to get those o rings locally? Lets say if I bought blue switch kb and found out its too loud, I may want to try to put o rings to reduce the noise.
dadudeneverabides
post Mar 11 2015, 02:37 PM

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QUOTE(Oyaji @ Mar 11 2015, 02:22 PM)
I wonder which kb switch is suitable for people who always bottom out during typing?

Then where to get those o rings locally? Lets say if I bought blue switch kb and found out its too loud, I may want to try to put o rings to reduce the noise.
*
You can't really select a switch based on that. Sometimes bottoming out is a good thing because you get a totally different feel from the keys.

As for o-rings, you can ask around and nobody will tell you it feels nice. To reduce noise, use a different kind of switch instead, or use a Korean backplate on an Alu block case.
Oyaji
post Mar 11 2015, 02:51 PM

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QUOTE(dadudeneverabides @ Mar 11 2015, 02:37 PM)
You can't really select a switch based on that. Sometimes bottoming out is a good thing because you get a totally different feel from the keys.

As for o-rings, you can ask around and nobody will tell you it feels nice. To reduce noise, use a different kind of switch instead, or use a Korean backplate on an Alu block case.
*
I see. I guess I need to try all the switches. I tried a blue switch kb (armageddon mka7) before at viewnet and that got me into mkb.
DarkSilver
post Mar 11 2015, 07:38 PM

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QUOTE(Oyaji @ Mar 11 2015, 02:51 PM)
I see. I guess I need to try all the switches. I tried a blue switch kb (armageddon mka7) before at viewnet and that got me into mkb.
*
But, please do not buy Armaggeddon MKBs. This brand is really not as good as you think.
justordinary
post Mar 11 2015, 07:45 PM

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Anyone know anywhere to get cherry stabs that are good in quality? I've some cherry stabs and they're awful as the metal bars are rusty and flaky. Are those in taobao like that?
dadudeneverabides
post Mar 11 2015, 07:51 PM

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QUOTE(Oyaji @ Mar 11 2015, 02:51 PM)
I see. I guess I need to try all the switches. I tried a blue switch kb (armageddon mka7) before at viewnet and that got me into mkb.
*
IIRC, Armageddon uses clone switches. Not too shabby, but they try to sell at Cherry prices, which kinda defeats the purpose. I'd still recommend the Ducky Zero series unless you need backlight for entry models.

QUOTE(justordinary @ Mar 11 2015, 07:45 PM)
Anyone know anywhere to get cherry stabs that are good in quality? I've some cherry stabs and they're awful as the metal bars are rusty and flaky. Are those in taobao like that?
*
Yup. Get Korean/US ones. They're expensive, but worth it.
justordinary
post Mar 11 2015, 08:10 PM

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QUOTE(dadudeneverabides @ Mar 11 2015, 07:51 PM)
IIRC, Armageddon uses clone switches. Not too shabby, but they try to sell at Cherry prices, which kinda defeats the purpose. I'd still recommend the Ducky Zero series unless you need backlight for entry models.
Yup. Get Korean/US ones. They're expensive, but worth it.
*
icon_rolleyes.gif
joonwei23
post Mar 11 2015, 09:16 PM

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QUOTE(justordinary @ Mar 11 2015, 07:45 PM)
Anyone know anywhere to get cherry stabs that are good in quality? I've some cherry stabs and they're awful as the metal bars are rusty and flaky. Are those in taobao like that?
*
yeah i got mine from taobao, it's not rust.
it's just an additional layer but idk what it is.
have never used it yet. is it that bad?
get it from GON/winkeyless I guess. smile.gif
ck.chunkeat
post Mar 11 2015, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(dadudeneverabides @ Mar 11 2015, 12:05 PM)
For tactile switches, let's just talk about MX series only. Topre surely out of your range and Matias doesn't have that many keycaps available.

MX Browns are considered scratchy MX Reds. After using them for a long time, I have to say that although this assessment is correct, but I would call it unfair because I actually enjoyed using these scratchy reds as they give me a little feedback on actuation of switches.

Next would be the hallowed MX Clears. Clears have a more significant bump, which also translated to a more pronounced tactile experience. HOWEVER, it's actuation force is actually quite high, and most users who jumped from Browns to Clears suffer from significant fatigue.

Personally, I felt a lot fatigue even moving 5g upwards due to my typing habits (just floating above the keys, and trying my very best not to bottom out).

Having said all that, I now introduce to you the REAL poison of the MKB world: custom switches.

Easiest to be done are the MX Ergo Clears (shortened to eClears from now on). eClears have the advantage of accepting any actuation force from 50g to 62g. Anything lower won't bounce back up, while anything tougher makes no sense as you can just use stock clears. Chief among the so-called poison is the need to lube the switches, as well as almost insane amount of consistency tuning needed to make the switches feel and react the same way. A well tuned eClear is the closest feel I get to Topre.

One of my favourites, and also the biggest time-sink and expertise required will be Jailhouse Blues (JHB). JHB involves locking up the slider on MX Blues with either copper/steel wire or thin o-rings (also known as the insanitarium). This in effect shortens the travel time, reduces the loudness (esp for the insanitarium build) and turns the Blues from clicky to tactile. The closest feel I can describe it with is something akin to MX Clears.

So, in the end, what switches you end up with is up to you, but I suggest that you do a LOT more homework on the world of tactile MX switches (sans exotic types) before committing to one.
*
Nice insight, make me wanna try the ergo clear. tongue.gif

Anyway, what about custom linear switches? Are there only vintage black with 62g spring?
Momo2014
post Mar 11 2015, 09:37 PM

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Hi,will be getting my first ssd and would like to know if buying an Intel 530 120gb is still worth even though it is quite old.
justordinary
post Mar 11 2015, 09:42 PM

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QUOTE(joonwei23 @ Mar 11 2015, 09:16 PM)
yeah i got mine from taobao, it's not rust.
it's just an additional layer but idk what it is.
have never used it yet. is it that bad?
get it from GON/winkeyless I guess.  smile.gif
*
Not sure if it's bad i never really tried it extensively but just doesn't look nice. laugh.gif .

This post has been edited by justordinary: Mar 11 2015, 09:42 PM
cloud8992
post Mar 11 2015, 09:47 PM

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QUOTE(Momo2014 @ Mar 11 2015, 10:37 PM)
Hi,will be getting my first ssd and would like to know if buying an Intel 530 120gb is still worth even though it is quite old.
*
wrong post dude hahah
Momo2014
post Mar 11 2015, 09:57 PM

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QUOTE(cloud8992 @ Mar 11 2015, 09:47 PM)
wrong post dude hahah
*
Oops haha sorry please ignore..
dadudeneverabides
post Mar 11 2015, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(justordinary @ Mar 11 2015, 08:10 PM)
icon_rolleyes.gif
*
Some additional information is warranted at this point.

Note that the following is purely speculation, as I don't have the resources to fully and exhaustively test the information I'm about to present, but I believe it to be accurate unless proven otherwise.

The taobao stabs usually rely on cheap core steel and paint the steel with an anti-rust agent that is silver in colour. Hence the flaking and all.

Korean ones usually use full SUS (I'm not sure of the grade, unfortunately). SUS, if you are familiar with industrial materials, is stainless steel.

So the difference is in the material being used, as stainless steel is about 4 times more expensive than cheap steel that I suspect is being used in the taobao stabs.

Of course, I'm no material engineer, just an accountant with access to a lot of information, but I have used both in building my boards and I highly recommend Korean stabs whenever possible. If you are doing customs, there is no point on going cheap.

QUOTE(ck.chunkeat @ Mar 11 2015, 09:21 PM)
Nice insight, make me wanna try the ergo clear. tongue.gif

Anyway, what about custom linear switches? Are there only vintage black with 62g spring?
*
Yeah, Vintage blacks are the only "custom" linear worth mentioning.

Mr 016 recently organized a GB for Gaterons. From the reviews at GH, I heard they are amazing to type on. Personally, I wouldn't know because I like my tactiles and therefore linear is just not my thing (just like how some guys like blonds but I'm a brunette kinda guy). However, I did commit to 120 switches at 35g, so we'll see about that.



As an aside for both of you, I'm planning a run for a 60% custom board, so do drop me a PM if you're interested. No assembly from me as I'm currently working "outstation".
Oyaji
post Mar 11 2015, 11:18 PM

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QUOTE(DarkSilver @ Mar 11 2015, 07:38 PM)
But, please do not buy Armaggeddon MKBs. This brand is really not as good as you think.
*
I'm not going to buy any armageddon mkbs. It just happen that it has display unit thus I'm able to try it out and discover what is it about mkb.

QUOTE(dadudeneverabides @ Mar 11 2015, 07:51 PM)
IIRC, Armageddon uses clone switches. Not too shabby, but they try to sell at Cherry prices, which kinda defeats the purpose. I'd still recommend the Ducky Zero series unless you need backlight for entry models.
*
Well, I am going to get myself a ducky zero but still undecided on what switch should I choose.
dadudeneverabides
post Mar 11 2015, 11:40 PM

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QUOTE(Oyaji @ Mar 11 2015, 11:18 PM)
I'm not going to buy any armageddon mkbs. It just happen that it has display unit thus I'm able to try it out and discover what is it about mkb.
Well, I am going to get myself a ducky zero but still undecided on what switch should I choose.
*
Linear is Red
Clicky is Blue
Many more choices
For you to choose

smile.gif
DarkSilver
post Mar 12 2015, 12:27 AM

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I have something to ask...
Since Filco is bringing in by Inter-Asia... Can I go to Inter-Asia shop(in Damansara), then, get a Filco MKB from there directly?
joonwei23
post Mar 12 2015, 12:39 AM

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QUOTE(justordinary @ Mar 11 2015, 09:42 PM)
Not sure if it's bad i never really tried it extensively but just doesn't look nice.  laugh.gif .
*
haha i'll let you know how it goes when I use them.
just waiting for my GON noww sad.gif
He's so so busy. I think everything is backordered.

cloud8992
post Mar 12 2015, 05:33 AM

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hi just want to ask any one buying this keycap ?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/max-keyboard-keycap-set

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