I think most Christian have a basic understanding of the Trinity. Unconsciously, they might have tendencies, which can, sometimes lead to Tritheism. But usually, most believers don't have a problem, just the lack of understanding that's all.

Again, what is your question specifically? Are you looking for someone who disagreed with his or her church??

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 30 2014, 12:53 PM

The experience of Jacob

His reaction - cont.

(4) Naming the Place "Bethel"

After pouring oil upon the top of the pillar, Jacob "called the name of that place Bethel" (v. 19). Why did Jacob call the name of that place Bethel, the house of God? As he was anointing the pillar, he was under the anointing of the Spirit. That pillar represented himself, the transformed Jacob. I do not believe that at that time Jacob understood what he was doing. He was not as clear as we are today.

In John 1:51 the Lord Jesus said to Nathanael, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you shall see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man." The title the Son of Man indicates that God no longer is merely God but that He has become a man. This reveals that God is no longer just in the heavens but that He has become a man living on the earth. The ladder has been set up on earth because God has become a man. Before He was incarnated, He could not be called the Son of Man. When the Lord Jesus told Nathanael that he would see the angels ascending and descending on the Son of Man, Nathanael must have realized immediately that this was the fulfillment of Jacob's dream.

Jacob's dream is a revelation of Christ, for Christ as the ladder is the center, the focus, of this dream. Here with this heavenly ladder we have an open heaven, the transformed man, the anointing upon this man, and the building up of the house of God with this man. The church life today is the complete fulfillment of Jacob's dream because the church life is the gate of heaven, the place where the pillar and ladder are, and the place where the angels ascend to heaven bearing good news and descend to earth bringing something heavenly. Bethel is here in the church life. We are today's Bethel. In Genesis 28, both the place and the stone were called Bethel. The stone was not only called Bethel; it was made Bethel. Why was the place called Bethel? Because the Bethel stone was there. The church life is like this. We all need to see this marvelous dream.

That is why in Jacob’s dream there was first the stone as the material and then the house of God, the building. After the oil was poured upon the stone, it became the house. Likewise, when we come to the Lord, we are living stones who are being built up as a spiritual house in the Spirit, by the Spirit, and with the Spirit (1 Pet. 2:5). We are the stones upon whom the Triune God has poured the Holy Spirit as the oil.

Only 1 core essential.

Jesus Christ.

I identify myself as a Christian. Never a denomination, prefer the term Non Denominational.

Yup I read the Bible daily and regularly goes to Church and disagree with my Church on some views.

On the Subject of trinity, the best thing to do is to accept it as it is. Holy Triune God, in the person of 3 yet same 1 God.

No point trying to explain it away, it's one of divine mystery our mind cannot comprehend in totality.

I see. I will study further to understand more.




yes. I was looking for anyone with a different understanding of the trinity but also other concepts in Christianity. It was because I have seen some people come to a different conclusion when they began to read their texts independently (mostly in Islam and Christianity). this was because of having a lack of understanding, too much understanding, the desire to change the Religion to suit his or her preferences, or in other cases, a general genuine need for truth.
I will try to understand more regarding Tritheism vs the Trinity. thank you for the keywords!

you are right about the divine mystery. I understand the inability of the mind to comprehend God fully. In my understanding, in order to accept the incomprehensible, I,you,they,anyone will have to understand the context of the presented subject/Topic/entity to see if the incomprehensible is compatible with the subject/topic/entity or in this case, God(general understanding) and Religious Texts.
I see that you have accepted the concept of the holy trinity as it is. thanks for answering! I'll be sure to ask if anything comes up.
P.S, I hope my English was not confusing. I'm terrible at grammar.



*edit* in other words, what I meant above is simply that in order for anyone to accept the trinity or other concepts of God. the trinity itself must fit with the whole understanding of the religion/Christianity. Or in other words, the religious texts. which then brings me to my original question regarding how constant are you in reading the Bible to which you answered "daily" and you have also come to the conclusion of the holy Trinity after reading and understanding the Bible am I correct? again, thanks for answering! I'll be sure to ask if something comes up.

This post has been edited by ZackMir: Oct 30 2014, 06:02 PM

John 10:30 (NIV) - I and the Father are one. (Jesus being one with the Father)

1 John 5:7-8 (NIV) - 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. (Water and Blood refers to Jesus Christ, that is how he came in the flesh, by water and by blood and the Spirit - referring to the HS is in agreement with Jesus Christ or One with Jesus Christ)

So we can see the synergy of unity here.

One more example.

Genesis 1:26 - Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

There are some references of the Hebrew word in plural when God spoke referring to himself as "us", "our", not singular.

Hi guys. Can I join in as well? I'm a RC. From kuching

Welcome!

You can add Matthew 28:19 ... "... baptizing them into the name[singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

Welcome Bro & Shalom!


Amen. That too.

And this is the Name that Jesus came to reveal:

Father.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 30 2014, 10:07 PM

Nah forget it.

Lazy to repeat it. When the subject is brought up again, we can discuss again.

lol, nope, not Calvary but hey the Healing Rally is on, tomorrow last day. Free Entrance 8PM to 10PM.

At Calvary convention centre.

LDR, not for long right?

Where U attending now? Is it Metro Tabernacle?

The experience of Jacob

His reaction - cont.

(5) Vowing

When God makes a promise, there is no need for us to make a vow. If I had been Jacob, I would simply have said, "Lord, thank You." But instead of thanking the Lord and praising Him, Jacob vowed that he would take God as his God, make the pillar-stone the house of God, and give God a tenth of all that He would give him on the condition that God would be with him, keep him, give him bread and raiment, and bring him back to his father's house in peace (vv. 20-22). Jacob's vow was conditional. Basically, he made a bargain with God.

Our being in the church life is also conditional. Although we all are happy in the church life, deep within we have a condition and say, "I will remain in the church life and be a part of the church life as long as God gives me bread." Although we may not say this in words, it is nonetheless deep within us. Suppose you lose your job and are unemployed for many months. Besides this, you become quite ill. Will you still sing about the glorious church life? Not only will there be no church life, but probably there will not even be a pillar. Your love for the Lord and for the church is conditional. When Jacob promised to give the tenth to God, it meant that if God did not give anything to him, then he would not give anything to God. Jacob seemed to be saying, "Let's make a deal. If You want something from me, then You must first give me something. If You don't give anything to me, what can I give to You?"

Did Jacob believe in God? Yes. If he did not believe in Him, he would not have spoken about God's being with him. But since he believed in God, why did he still have such a condition in his vow? Because he was human, just like we are today. On the one hand, we believe in God; on the other hand, we have a term. Hardly anyone loves the Lord unconditionally. I have heard many brothers and sisters say that they consecrate themselves absolutely to the Lord. Whenever I hear such testimonies, I ask, "Are you really absolute with the Lord?" If the Holy Spirit were to write an account of your experience, it would probably be exactly the same as Jacob's. My record, for certain, is just the same as his. But there is no need to worry about our living. God will give us the land, the seed, and the blessing, and, in addition to all this, He will take care of our living, providing food, clothing, and everything we need. If we seek first the kingdom of God, the Father will give us whatever we need for our living. This is the dream of Jacob.

Another material for spiritual growth. It's indonesian, i hope you who speak bahasa melayu can sikit2x get the idea.

https://soundcloud.com/keluargarhema

Sounds like DUMC! haha


I went for a mission trip with a Charismatic church once, and during the planning stages, my leader was concerned because some of us didn't speak in tongues because we might face some "spiritual warfare" thing when we are on our trip. I asked her for her scriptural justification for her charge that we should all speak in tongues, but I was never given one.

I never understood the idea of spiritual warfare the way many churches believe in it IMO: it makes God look like he's superman fighting Lex Luthor (AKA powers and authorities) which implies that God and the evil forces are on nearly equal ground but God is slightly stronger. The God of the Bible sounds like he isn't just stronger than the enemy, but he's sovereign over them and can crush them (and will crush them) very very easily.

I'm not doubting the existence of such "forces" though.


and...Happy Reformation day guys! lololololol

This post has been edited by Decky: Oct 31 2014, 04:44 PM

Even now, there are spiritual forces wrecking havoc somewhere, but why God doesn't crush them then and there?

If you can answer that, you will understand why.

Because God has already chosen how to gloriously defeat them?(i.e. Revelations)


What is your answer?

if you answer like that, you implying you are doing speaking in tongue probably more than UW + me

most of the protestant (i recalled ur protestant ?) does not believe in revelations, and
most of the protestant are cessationism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism
they does not believe "mumbo jumbo things aka dreams, revelation, audible voices" still exist today. Those things stops around 100 AD.

but i recalled ur "mixed" somehow... perhaps i miss something ?

Well, I don't know where you got the idea of the star of david from, but I think you're right to say that because we are God's people who are sealed with His holy spirit (Eph 1:13?) we are secure in Christ. That's not to ignore what Paul is saying in Eph 6, but rather to remind us on where our security is and where our focus should be.

My big problem with my mission team leader was that the focus wasn't on preaching the gospel faithfully (which the NT is EXTREMELY clear about) or whether we were teaching the right things to the people there, but instead the focus was on...tongues. I don't want to start a Charismatic v cessationist debate here, but I think whichever side you're on, you gotta get your priorities right.

I meant, the book of Revelations. Like how it paints a picture of God's final victory over satan.

And no, it's difficult to say that most protestants are cessationists. Only the brethrens I can say for sure are cessationists.

This post has been edited by Decky: Oct 31 2014, 06:10 PM