Yes, it's clear but these things are always open for discussion as we go through life, since there are more complexities that arise. So I think it's always up for discussion unless the conversation is going nowhere and turning bitter.

Do you have a new topic to discuss about? So that we can steer away from that bribery discussion if you want? =)


I am not sure if you're a christian or not, I've always thought christian should use a more loving approach?

Ya comparatively, you might be a christian longer than tinarhian but please don't use that tone as it won't create a positive atmosphere.

State your point clearly, explain that things are more complex than they actually are (I am assuming that's your point), that these things are not so clear cut in real life.

There's no need to use the " I am more experience than thou" implication.

"Let's wait until few months see anything shaken or not"????

Now, that's just downright mean. Do you hope for a new believer to be shaken until he/she cannot trust christianity? Is that how you would like to be talked to when you're a new christian?

If I am wrong, please do correct me.

I don't think HS will ask a believer to do that, bro.

That's why It's important to know how to hear God properly otherwise you will hear all kind of "voices".

Forgive my inability to be more diplomatic.

Next time i will write: Yes, it's clear but these things are always open for discussion as we go through life

I oso ask why HS approve Bill Willson Metro church approach.

Bill Willson is the largest sunday school, so whatever mystery HS choose not to disclose, and ppl draw conclusion that it's not biblical.. honestly i don't care.

Yesterday i ask my indonesia fren perhaps Bill Willson didn't bribe ( i hope i hear wrong) ... oh no... my fren confirmed he did bribe to save the children in africa.

for me personally, same approach. Ask HS.

Holy Spirit's Voice or God's Voice actually is very subjective (like how some hear it as another voice different from theirs but some hear the same voice as they have). I think as christians, there's a need to point back to the Bible because it's the most reliable source from God.

Maybe I am not mature enough to hear any 'voice" or could not distinguish it. I think most, if not all of it are just my conscience.

I am just talking about voices though, there are other forms that God communicates according to people, what's yours?

"I oso ask why HS approve Bill Willson Metro church approach.

Bill Willson is the largest sunday school, so whatever mystery HS choose not to disclose, and ppl draw conclusion that it's not biblical.. honestly i don't care.

Yesterday i ask my indonesia fren perhaps Bill Willson didn't bribe ( i hope i hear wrong) ... oh no... my fren confirmed he did bribe to save the children in africa.

for me personally, same approach. Ask HS. "

From what I've heard from my senior pastor, in Nepal, evangelists pay extra calling it love gift to lawyers who handle their visa to stay in Nepal to carry out their ministry.

My senior pastor did testify he prayed and refused to let the lawyer handle it by going to the office himself (It was a long long line and it's really hard to get the visa especially for evangelists) , at the end, he found out the head of the office knows my senior pastor as his daughter is in the class of my senior pastor's wife ( a teahcer). Thus, he could go directly to the head to get a visa when he was in Nepal.

I don't think we can clearly say "It's not God's Will" because some of the results (like the Bill Wilson case) looks justifiable. Some might argue that good results does not justify wrong actions.

I personally think as long as it works out fine without any future serious repercussions, it's fine.

Note: Please do note that I am no longer a Christian because I have too much doubts about God's existence. So, this is not a godly response or post. Just an opinion.



This post has been edited by amosai: Dec 5 2014, 11:20 AM

Hi there,

Really depends on your relationship with God. if you spend enough time on daily basis or very frequently (Church activities like Prayer Meet, Cell group and all that does not count. ), you will get to know the Father. You can hear Him. I would go as a far to say it's quite impossible not to hear Him at all. God is not impossible to be reach, only our laziness is the problem.

I hear gentle voices in my thoughts confirming the Father's will and his word.
There are times I hear instructions. But most of the time conviction in the heart to do something.

It's not the matter of whether He did bribe or didn't bribe.

I'm just telling you the HS will never instruct a believer to act in Sin, doesn't matter what the circumstances. This is one divine Fact that will never change no matter what.
Anyone can claim to hear from God, even Pastors, doesn't matter to me but the Bible also teach us how to recognize God's voice against others so that we don't get deceived.
How do we know this, IT MUST BE established from the Bible. You cannot say that is not important.

This is the character of God. That is how we know Him.

I can't deny that. I am impatient. I've tried maybe a week or two of daily devotion and I just couldn't see any progress and just give up. There are voices in my head but most of the time I rule them out as God's voice because it's still arguable whether they are my moral conscience or not.

Just like how some believe in HS that told them bribery is the right thing to do at a moment, in reality, the person really convinces himself/herself that's the HS talking. The other way round (believing bribery should not be done) could be true too. They are so convinced about something and believing in it but there's a possibility it could be delusional, it could be made up, based on their morality too. But in truth, if God is all powerful and knowledgeable and the truth, then there shouldn't be a contradiction of statements. Bribery is right or wrong? If it's right to one, how could it be wrong to another when they are listening to the same HS. How is it possible to distinguish between the real HS or a made up HS( in their mind, it's real to them).

There really is no basis on whether your HS is right or not, so the only logical thing to do is refer back to the Bible since it's where it all started and the most reliable source.

I am just using bribery as an example as it's the only thing from my mind right now LOL.

Note: I am not a christian. I think I need to post this as a siggy to ensure that others are not swayed =/.

Like?

What type of progress you were expecting?

Any noticeable good changes frankly, to feel closer? To have Him speak to me? Through anything really, I was looking for signs whether through people or events, even the verses of the day I've looked at didn't make any sense or had no relationship to what I've been through throughout the day. I felt like wood by the end of it. Didn't feel a thing, didn't have a change in perspective. Still feels and looks the same. Some call it a dry season, I don't know about that but I definitely felt no better (or worse for that matteR) nor do I feel any closer to God at all. I definitely felt like I was the odd one out because everyone else is hearing God. They are so convinced they hear God, like you. And I am happy for that.

But I've wanted an experience of my own but there doesn't look like I have any. I've actually asked God whether was I blind or deaf? Or is He mute or trying to show me something without actually showing it to me?

It feels the same with or without God somehow.

This post has been edited by amosai: Dec 5 2014, 11:54 AM

Faith is the doorway to God and the actualization of his word, not feelings.
If I can put it this way, tenacious faith. Constant believing.


I think in the initial stage, it's important to get to know God first, understand Who He is.
Then later progress to other areas.

How do you have faith if you have no experience with God? Would Saul changed without becoming blind? If not, he wouldn't have changed his name to Paul. If not, he would not have written letters to the churches as a prophet.

I am not sure of how you came to know Christ, but there are two types of christians. One that comes from knowledge first. The other comes from experiencing Him first. Simply said, one was taught about christianity and raised in a christian home with christian values. While the other has experienced Him through some event or occurrence, then only decided to follow God. Guess which I am in? I am the former.

I was taught, not experienced. So was I a christian? No. I've never been one technically because I know for sure no one is born a christian. I know how to act like one, speak like one, act the way I should as a christian, do what christians do (pray, go to church, read the bible). Heck, I was even a leader in church and CF. I was raised to believe, not by choice. Of course I wasn't forced, but because I was raised that way, I assume it's a natural course.

A lot of my friends from the church have the same experience as I do, they were taught. Whenever we hear people's testimony how they came to Christ, it sounds so nice. Ours? Err, we're raised in this church, how is that a testimony? ... Of course, a lot of us went separate ways and a lot have claimed to experience Him now. But there are also people like me, constantly questioning while some have decided it was false.

How does one have such tenacious faith? Because one has experienced it once. Whenever the person doubts, he/she could look back at that one experience and say "yup, that's my assurance".

This post has been edited by amosai: Dec 5 2014, 12:19 PM

have you tried this approach ?

http://www.cwgministries.org/Four-Keys-to-Hearing-Gods-Voice

That is the "second generation syndrome" of those who grow up in a Christian family. That feeling right now is that one must have a real contact with God, a born again experience with God. The Lord Jesus is no longer your parent's God but your God.

I did share something with Sophiera : https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=67670162

It's like the end of the world. How do I put this, you know Bioshock? Everyone become crazy zombies because of substance abuse? Yeah, something like that. But those on God's side are safe because we didn't take the stuff.

I see these deformed shriveled up folks running around, but they don't see me because God jaga.


Yeah, something like that.



Aiyoh dee the level you're defending yourself is like one of those SJW that the internet complain.

The HS will order you to rogol someone meh? No right?
Even the wars (killing) have set rules. After the establishment of Jesus there's no order to war or murder anymore.

HS order to to rogol ? actually HS test your response.

If you reply woahh... what kind of GOD is this ?... sure you didn't demonstrate humble. So how to demonstrate humble ? just say i am sorry, i can't do it, i don't wanna do it.

HS asked me if i want to cheat for my personal gain. It's a test lah, sure I know because HS told oso HS want to test me .

Anything you say lah.


People already tell you so many times that the person you think it HS is not HS, but you don't believe.

You take the first step, via Faith, there's simply no other way.

In the natural realm you have sets of rules, law of physics, law of gravity, etc to follow for something to work, same thing with God's Kingdom, his way is through Faith. It's not just let's "try" to believe but a determination to simply believe all the way till the day you die.

I didn't care much what people think about my endeavour for believing. In fact come to think of it, neither do I care much what I think of it. I just believe.
And it has come true, for so many years that God responded because of faith and his grace.....so many times I lost count.

Saul believed in God as described in the Old Testament. Jesus intervened in his life to help us understand even the most vile, the most difficult or even the most stubborn heart can be changed. Nothing in this universe and there isn't anyone too difficult for God to touch or change. Just need faith..believe.
BTW Paul was more of an apostle than a prophet.

I was persecuted by my family for my faith. Never in my dream, did I think God could have change them and how wrong..was I.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Dec 5 2014, 09:51 PM

Any plan during this year Xmas? Xmas party?