Tortured by my fella? More like trying to advise n wake you. You're all my friends, what talking you man?

I never say Christians in this world have never resorted to bribe, my point is, just because somebody did it, must you follow also?
If the guy jump from tall building, you also jump? Where do you base your morality standard?

On People or Bible?

I think you miss the whole point altogether.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Dec 6 2014, 01:02 PM

i think you didn't answer my question lah... say lah like luffy plain n clear

Luffy i respect your genuine answer

but honestly... are you sure 100% all the permit are bribe free ?

2 points lah:
1. my fren in construction industry say this particular industry, construction, it's not 100% bribe free. Actually, it's a dirty one lahh...
2. usually church elders prefers to hide this cuz not all congregation are comfortable with the truth, or, they outsource to contractor and contractor will do the dirty works including bribing. Sure, church elders hands are clean, but the building belong the church, and it's a product of... a indirect bribery

Again feel free to convince me again... i just happy to hear a church permit is done 100% bribe free. can reconfirm ?

how you remember the number and description??
u really are pro..

by saying this you do not trust in God? then why don't you ask the Lord yourself? i am very sure the answer given by The Lord is this by prayer they are given

Jesus said "seek and you shall find, ask and it will be given to you, knock and it will be open to you"

do you still not get it? construction industry is different building a church is different, don't you understand God Grace?

Jesus also said i am the Living Water, those that drink my water will never go thirsty again

This post has been edited by De_Luffy: Dec 6 2014, 11:27 PM

as a fren n brother i support your faith, and statement

as a business man to be honest hehehe... need more convincing and proof lah brader...

you know lah... when we do business, business is business... fren is fren... there is a thick line to separate them.

so as long as you happy i happy lah... but kindly give me some room to do my ministry here ok ... some thing like you are not comfortable imho, yeah you know its not about ur church building.. it's something else

i wondering have you ever heard of the parable of the shrewd manager? also the parable of the 3 servants? tell me honestly what is moral of the story? how was it applied in the present world?

even in business line, when you do anything you face obstacle you resorted to bribe? don't you know how to pray? why don't you start your day with a prayer? ask God to guide you through everything smoothly for the day.

if you can't even do that, why you accepted Christ as Lord and Savior when you will not even ask for His help when you face obstacles and temptations?

Why not you take a look at Job? what Satan did to him and his family? and despite his friends advice to turn away from God, he remain steadfast to God even advising them not to blaspheme against God and reaping more rewards when Satan temptation on him has ended?

i think you know where my morality standard is. My standard is ask HS.

A church that need to expand will get my support 100% provided that HS agreed i support the church. Bribe or not bribe i don't care. 100% support.

Oh i believe calvary church will like me hahaha... sure your leaders will be happy i support them without questioning morality values. But again... Must get HS approval or else i will not support.

let me know if this statement still not clear.

do you not know that every sin that we make while on earth is recorded on the book of life?

Bribery you will still bribe despite God against it? despite you can use a better way to clear this obstacle? by using bribery that means you have no confidence in God at all, you do not believe God can make a way when there seem to be no way. let me tell you even if you bribe you will never get what you wanted at all, you may have chances for what you want but not getting it

Today's sermon was great!

before i answer this, let us know what is your church.

show to us so i can verify with the church leader about the building that you say bribe free. don't pm me, show here in public. So other reader can come to the leader and ask whether your claim is true or not.

you wanna know what church i am from go read back my many previous posts already mentioned i am from which church, truly it was bribe free if you don't believe it we can't help it as my church did an annual report on our church building issues

There are a lot of scripture verses or God's word that speaks to me personally in the past years and also today, and because of that I can remember the description more than anything.

That is what we Christians call Rhema Words.


The Chapter and number can be easily found on the internet.

Anyway I always refer to this link:

Bible.cc

It has most of the translations, even has Greek and Hebrew which is where we translated from.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Dec 7 2014, 11:28 PM

I think your statement is very easily understood but you don't seem to agree or understand what we're trying to tell you even though we repeated so many time.

next week saturday on 7pm to 10pm 13th December there would be a Christmas event in Klang

at Dataran Seni Klang behind Shaw Centerpoint Klang, In front of Bata Shoe shop, there would be singing, free gifts and foods also performances from various churches in Klang.

PS: i find it very tiring debating with someone who keep accusing our own church resorting to bribe just to get their own church building construction approval from local authority, so i am opting out from this thread from today onward. i will be around but not here

Every sermon can be great if we're humble enough to listen.

Okay, take a break, anyway Xmas is coming.

How's everyone else preparation?

Those who are near Puchong, Sri Petaling, OUG, Sri kembangan, Puncak Jalil, Lestari Perdana, Mines, Kajang, Sunway are all invited to come to Calvary Convention Centre near Bukit Jalil.

We have Xmas Morning Musical at Dec 25 9AM. Free Admittance.

Anyway Lets stop this debate about bribery..Everyone chill.

The experience of Jacob

Jacob's Fear of Esau

Genesis 32 and 33 contain a very strange experience in the life of Jacob, the chosen one. Jacob did not trust in the Lord. Since the time he was born, he exercised his natural ability to do things for himself. In chapter thirty-one he fled from Laban, and God delivered him out of Laban's usurping hand. Because Laban told him that God had warned him not to hurt Jacob, Jacob took the opportunity to boldly rebuke him (31:24, 36). Nevertheless, the Lord brought him through that difficulty. However, in front of Jacob was another serious problem—his brother Esau.

Jacob was in a dilemma. Behind him was Laban and in front of him was Esau. I believe that while Jacob was fleeing from Laban and returning to the land of his fathers, he was greatly disturbed by these two men. It was difficult for him to remain with Laban and it was just as difficult for him to return to the place where Esau was. By God's mercy, he was released from Laban, but now he had to confront Esau.

a) Met by the Angels of God

Genesis 32:1 and 2 say, "And Jacob went on his way, and the angels of God met him. And when Jacob saw them, he said, This is God's camp: and he called the name of that place Mahanaim," which means two camps (Heb.). As Jacob went on his way, he was probably thinking about how he would face his brother. Perhaps he said to himself, "I have been delivered from my uncle, but how shall I deal with Esau, my brother?" Much to his surprise, the angels of God met him, indicating that they would protect him. God's angels are always invisibly present with His chosen people. In this instance, the angels appeared to Jacob and he saw them. He did not see a small number of angels; rather, he saw two camps of them. This reminds us of Psalm 34:7, which says, "The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them." The presence of two camps of angels should have been a great encouragement to this troubled Jacob. However, he was still afraid that his brother would smite him.

b) Still Trusting in Self-striving

After Jacob saw the two camps of angels, he should have been comforted. Nevertheless, he did not trust in these two camps of angels. God's purpose in showing him this vision of angels undoubtedly was to comfort him, to strengthen him, and to cause him to trust in God's celestial armies. But Jacob did not put his trust in what he saw. Rather, Jacob, who still trusted in his self-striving (vv. 3-8), imitated God's two camps of angels by dividing his people into two camps. Instead of putting his trust in what he saw, he copied the technique. Although we can only guess at what Jacob was thinking when he did this (perhaps he thought that each of the two camps of his household would be protected by the two camps of the angels), one thing is clear—Jacob did not exercise trust in God nor in the vision of the angels; rather, he expended his time and energy in exercising his natural ability. Verses 7 and 8 say, "Then Jacob was greatly afraid and distressed: and he divided the people that was with him, and the flocks, and herds, and the camels, into two camps; and said, If Esau come to the one company, and smite it, then the other company which is left shall escape." This was Jacob's cleverness. But actually it was not clever at all, for if Esau could have smitten the first camp of women and children, why could he not have also smitten the second camp? But this dividing of his people was the best that Jacob could do.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Dec 8 2014, 07:48 AM

u know i take 2 day can finish the small bible book... i can understand what it mean problem is i cannot remember the number n meaning after few week