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 LYN Christian Fellowship V8 (Group)

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de1929
post Dec 3 2014, 12:16 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 3 2014, 10:54 AM)
My rebuttal with you from day 1 until now about this is not to make you feel bad or to put you down.
We know you have difficulty in expressing in English and we know not everyone understands Bible context.

Just hope you'll be opened to learn and be humble, that's all.

Bro I also hear God's voice,  I'm sure so does Pehkay even Sophiera, Luffy, Steve n rest of friends. We are all friends here.
I believe all of us here trying to help you. But you are stubborn.

We are trying to tell you God will never lead or approve anyone to act in sin to accomplish whatever means. God is Holy.
The entire Christian world is united in this. We believe it's highly possible you're just hearing your own Conscience and not God.
*
First, thanks for understanding me and have a heart to lead me to righteous living per christian value standard.

People with mindset like me, it's not only me bro .. biggrin.gif ... There a a lot of Christian like me in indonesia. But they are not posting in lowyat for sure. Most of them they are business man, some do the ministry behind the screen.

If you ask them can bribe ? they will answer no. especially for pulpit ministry it's a BIG NO.

some thing can be shared in pulpit, some only in secret, perhaps only from 1-to-1 session only.

Here i share with you some truth, that maybe somebody can benefit. for somebody maybe an insult.

Lead to sin ? because our (meaning me and ppl that has same mindset) definition of sin is not bribe / bribe, but hamartia. Missing marks. Missing from GOD's assignment, missing from our to-do list in response to what HS has advised us.

few verses to justify:
1. Jesus come not to abolish the law, but to complete it. Meaning, the law it's not what, but who.
2. everything is permissible... becareful, what you reap is what you sow
3. Jesus broke the sabattical law because HE is the LORD of the law. For those who wanna break "the law", ask JESUS permission first.
4. There is higher cause to reason something, as it is written in the bible, there is highest law, the law that covers everything. Love you GOD (with a,b,c,d..) and Love your neighbour (with a,b,c,d).

Can bible reply ? cannot right ... only GOD can answer prayer. Only HS can advise

Bible is the highest authorithy ? isn't that everything is permissible also biblical ? or you want to remove everything is permissible from bible ?





pehkay
post Dec 3 2014, 01:38 PM

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You know ... that the ritual laws were abolished but the moral laws are uplifted ....

Your pt. 3 is very very shaky tongue.gif


de1929
post Dec 3 2014, 03:09 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Dec 3 2014, 01:38 PM)
You know ... that the ritual laws were abolished but the moral laws are uplifted ....

Your pt. 3 is very very shaky tongue.gif
*
moral law is good to keep society in order.

But if the moral law starts to prohibits GOD's kingdom expansion... e.g. saving the child unless bribing the officers... uhm... depends on HS lah... if HS stay quiet... i oso stay quiet ...

I am not gonna do "dirty jobs" unless really...really...really...really...really... necessary and without HS approvals, forget it.
unknown warrior
post Dec 3 2014, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(de1929 @ Dec 3 2014, 12:16 PM)
First, thanks for understanding me and have a heart to lead me to righteous living per christian value standard.

People with mindset like me, it's not only me bro .. biggrin.gif ... There a a lot of Christian like me in indonesia. But they are not posting in lowyat for sure. Most of them they are business man, some do the ministry behind the screen.

If you ask them can bribe ? they will answer no. especially for pulpit ministry it's a BIG NO.

some thing can be shared in pulpit, some only in secret, perhaps only from 1-to-1 session only.

Here i share with you some truth, that maybe somebody can benefit. for somebody maybe an insult.

Lead to sin ? because our (meaning me and ppl that has same mindset) definition of sin is not bribe / bribe, but hamartia. Missing marks. Missing from GOD's assignment, missing from our to-do list in response to what HS has advised us.

few verses to justify:
1. Jesus come not to abolish the law, but to complete it. Meaning, the law it's not what, but who.
2. everything is permissible... becareful, what you reap is what you sow
3. Jesus broke the sabattical law because HE is the LORD of the law. For those who wanna break "the law", ask JESUS permission first.
4. There is higher cause to reason something, as it is written in the bible, there is highest law, the law that covers everything. Love you GOD (with a,b,c,d..) and Love your neighbour (with a,b,c,d).

Can bible reply ? cannot right ... only GOD can answer prayer. Only HS can advise

Bible is the highest authorithy ? isn't that everything is permissible also biblical ? or you want to remove everything is permissible from bible ?
*
Bro Read carefully how it says it;


1 Corinthians 6:12 (NLT) - You say, "I am allowed to do anything"--but not everything is good for you. And even though "I am allowed to do anything," I must not become a slave to anything.

Here's in your mother tongue version

(12) Segala sesuatu halal bagiku, tetapi bukan semuanya berguna. Segala sesuatu halal bagiku, tetapi aku tidak membiarkan diriku diperhamba oleh suatu apapun.


1 Corinthians 10:23-24 (NLT) - You say, "I am allowed to do anything"--but not everything is good for you. You say, "I am allowed to do anything"--but not everything is beneficial. Don't be concerned for your own good but for the good of others.

Here's in your mother tongue version

(23) Kata orang, "Kita boleh berbuat apa saja yang kita mau." Benar! Tetapi tidak semua yang kita mau itu berguna. "Kita boleh berbuat apa saja yang kita mau" --tetapi tidak semua yang kita mau itu membangun kehidupan kita. (24) Janganlah seorang pun berjuang untuk kepentingan dirinya sendiri saja. Setiap orang harus berjuang untuk kepentingan orang lain.


Do you now see the truth of it's context. Di Bahagian dimana di perkatakan "Tetapi" merujuk kepada apa yang patut kamu elak-kan.

Same meaning in principal here.

1 Corinthians 15:27 - For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

Here's in your mother tongue version

(27) Dalam Alkitab tertulis begini, "Allah sudah membuat segala sesuatu takluk kepada-Nya." Jelaslah bahwa yang dimaksud dengan "segala sesuatu" itu tidak termasuk Allah sendiri, yang membuat segala sesuatu itu takluk kepada Kristus.


You cannot say "everything" means including even what is sinful, as explained in 1 Corinthians 6:12 & 10:23-24 as how the principal in 1 Corinthians 15:27.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Dec 3 2014, 03:24 PM
pehkay
post Dec 3 2014, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(de1929 @ Dec 3 2014, 03:09 PM)
moral law is good to keep society in order.

But if the moral law starts to prohibits GOD's kingdom expansion... e.g. saving the child unless bribing the officers... uhm... depends on HS lah... if HS stay quiet... i oso stay quiet ...

I am not gonna do "dirty jobs" unless really...really...really...really...really... necessary and without HS approvals, forget it.
*
Expansion of God's kingdom requires the breaking of moral law .... this is really pushing it bro ... There is no such thing leh. ohmy.gif

1 John 1:6 “If we say that we have fellowship with Him and walk in the darkness, we lie and are not practicing the truth.”

John says it so clearly .... and he is considered one who ABIDE in the Lord and walking according to the Anointing.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Dec 3 2014, 03:23 PM
ngaisteve1
post Dec 3 2014, 03:44 PM

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ya good intention shouldn't justify the committed wrong-doing (sin). Like some said, white lie is okay but lie still lie oh. Another one is Robin Hood's idea: "robbing from the rich and giving to the poor" biggrin.gif

I guess in certain difficult situation, gotta submit to God's will. Maybe God forsee that child is going to suffer more if that child is alive after cured.

The only thing when we gotta go against the nation law is when the law stop us to worship God or become a Christian. Aka persecution. Maybe that time gotta form under-ground church or migrate to another country liao.

But after thinking de1929's tot, i was reminded also the purpose of the God's law / commandment. Yeah merely just follow and obey can leads to legalism. Need to go back to the origin purpose why God set these commandment. Example, during OT, God forbid on eating pork. If didn't know the origin purpose, we remain follow and obey. But if know it, we realize that the origin purpose is health concern. Those days, the pigs eats anything and thus carries much diseases and there isn't much health awareness on how to prepare/cook it in those days too.

In this modern generation, food industry was governed by the health ministry bodies (in certain extend) and thus 'safer' to eat it.
TSSophiera
post Dec 3 2014, 05:12 PM

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Bribing is clearly a moral offence though.

The laws Jesus ignored were cultural/social/ceremonial stuff. Like eating with Sinners. Flipping charlatan's tables in the temple. Healed a person on Sabbath.

But He still paid taxes.
When Peter chopped off the officer's ear, He rebuked and healed that ear.



It is very, very easy to get misled thinking you're serving God. Crusaders did that. We now don't approve of their actions.

Carlo J
post Dec 3 2014, 06:59 PM

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tinarhian Regarding the temptation subject, you can refer to this scripture:

Jesus the Great High Priest

14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven,[a] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

This post has been edited by Carlo J: Dec 3 2014, 07:02 PM
tinarhian
post Dec 3 2014, 08:20 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Dec 3 2014, 07:51 AM)
I think in this world of political correctness "colouring" our eyes, we then to bring this to the Bible too tongue.gif

The term used by the Lord, "woman" is a term of respect and endearment.

The other reference is in John 19:26: "Woman, behold your son!"

According to A Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament by G. Abbott-Smith, using the word woman to refer to a female was "a term of respect and endearment." Bullinger's Companion Bible notation for verse 26 refers the reader to John 2:4 where Jesus also uses the term "woman." In the notes pertaining to this verse, "woman" is "a respectful form of address."

Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible for this verse makes an interesting comment as to WHY Jesus might have used the term "woman." It states he did so to possibly spare his mother's feelings, as the very mention of her name (given her firstborn son was being brutally killed though he was innocent) would have wrung more sorrow out of her heart.

Regarding the latter part of the sentence, Mary, the mother of Jesus, here signifies the natural man, which has nothing to do with life and which must be subdued by the divine life (vv. 3-5). When the wine was exhausted, the natural man came out and even prayed to the Lord. When Mary told the Lord, “They have no wine,” He said to her, “Woman, what have I to do with you? My hour has not yet come” (vv. 3-4). Often we are exactly like the mother of Jesus. We are today’s Mary, praying as a natural man according to our natural life.

Frequently the Lord will allow the wine in certain situations to run out in order that He might have an opportunity to change death into life. Even in a local church, the Lord may allow the situation to go into death. In such a case, the natural man will pray, “O Lord, do something to rescue the situation.” If you pray in this way, the Lord will turn to you and say, “What have I to do with you? You have nothing to do with Me in this matter.” Nearly all of us would act the same way Mary did. What then should we do? We should not do anything. Let the death come to the surface and be exposed. Then the Lord Jesus will come in.
------------------------

But then, to be fair, the Lord was genuine and frank ... and he tend to be very direct with Nicodemus, a senior respected man of the Jews.
*
Oh I see. Thanks dude.

QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 3 2014, 11:10 AM)
Being graceful towards elders is wisdom even though you may know something they don't.  tongue.gif God takes pleasure in such humility.

Oh that verse? It's a matter of choice. What I mean is this.

The day you decided in your heart and mind that the lust of the flesh is wrong and you want no part of it anymore and you made that request in prayer to God, this verse will come true.
I believe it's activated upon such determination. The way of escape and enduring will be there in your spirit. I can testify from my experience. The desire to continue or wanting to succumb to it, is simply not there.

But if you still have doubts or reservation whether you want to give up on lust, this way of escape is kinda elusive.  tongue.gif
*
So we just got to pray to God for his strength so that we can control / reduce our lust / temptation. nod.gif

All our attempt at resisting temptation will be useless unless we pray consistently to the HS.

Matthew 26:41

Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak”

Matthew 6:13

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

QUOTE(de1929 @ Dec 3 2014, 12:16 PM)
First, thanks for understanding me and have a heart to lead me to righteous living per christian value standard.

People with mindset like me, it's not only me bro .. biggrin.gif ... There a a lot of Christian like me in indonesia. But they are not posting in lowyat for sure. Most of them they are business man, some do the ministry behind the screen.

If you ask them can bribe ? they will answer no. especially for pulpit ministry it's a BIG NO.

some thing can be shared in pulpit, some only in secret, perhaps only from 1-to-1 session only.

Here i share with you some truth, that maybe somebody can benefit. for somebody maybe an insult.

Lead to sin ? because our (meaning me and ppl that has same mindset) definition of sin is not bribe / bribe, but hamartia. Missing marks. Missing from GOD's assignment, missing from our to-do list in response to what HS has advised us.

few verses to justify:
1. Jesus come not to abolish the law, but to complete it. Meaning, the law it's not what, but who.
2. everything is permissible... becareful, what you reap is what you sow
3. Jesus broke the sabattical law because HE is the LORD of the law. For those who wanna break "the law", ask JESUS permission first.
4. There is higher cause to reason something, as it is written in the bible, there is highest law, the law that covers everything. Love you GOD (with a,b,c,d..) and Love your neighbour (with a,b,c,d).

Can bible reply ? cannot right ... only GOD can answer prayer. Only HS can advise

Bible is the highest authorithy ? isn't that everything is permissible also biblical ? or you want to remove everything is permissible from bible ?
*
Oh, so you are an Indonesian? Selamat sore. Senang bertemu anda.

Saya tidak bisa bicara bahasa Indonesia. Permisi. tongue.gif

QUOTE(Carlo J @ Dec 3 2014, 06:59 PM)
tinarhian Regarding the temptation subject, you can refer to this scripture:

Jesus the Great High Priest

14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven,[a] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
*
This is from which book?

This post has been edited by tinarhian: Dec 3 2014, 08:20 PM
SUSmeistsh_musical
post Dec 3 2014, 11:24 PM

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anybody here working at germany frankfurt or berlin?

tinarhian
post Dec 3 2014, 11:34 PM

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Warum fragst du?
skydrake
post Dec 4 2014, 04:30 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 3 2014, 11:14 AM)
All the best in your family business. Bro u still doing other business as per your siggy? thumbup.gif
*
thr siggie business passed to sister in law to handle, helping het advertise 😁
de1929
post Dec 4 2014, 07:33 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 3 2014, 03:18 PM)
Bro Read carefully how it says it;
1 Corinthians 6:12 (NLT) - You say, "I am allowed to do anything"--but not everything is good for you. And even though "I am allowed to do anything," I must not become a slave to anything.

Here's in your mother tongue version

(12) Segala sesuatu halal bagiku, tetapi bukan semuanya berguna. Segala sesuatu halal bagiku, tetapi aku tidak membiarkan diriku diperhamba oleh suatu apapun.
1 Corinthians 10:23-24 (NLT) - You say, "I am allowed to do anything"--but not everything is good for you. You say, "I am allowed to do anything"--but not everything is beneficial. Don't be concerned for your own good but for the good of others.

Here's in your mother tongue version

(23) Kata orang, "Kita boleh berbuat apa saja yang kita mau." Benar! Tetapi tidak semua yang kita mau itu berguna. "Kita boleh berbuat apa saja yang kita mau" --tetapi tidak semua yang kita mau itu membangun kehidupan kita. (24) Janganlah seorang pun berjuang untuk kepentingan dirinya sendiri saja. Setiap orang harus berjuang untuk kepentingan orang lain.
Do you now see the truth of it's context. Di Bahagian dimana di perkatakan "Tetapi" merujuk kepada apa yang patut kamu elak-kan.

Same meaning in principal here.

1 Corinthians 15:27 - For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

Here's in your mother tongue version

(27) Dalam Alkitab tertulis begini, "Allah sudah membuat segala sesuatu takluk kepada-Nya." Jelaslah bahwa yang dimaksud dengan "segala sesuatu" itu tidak termasuk Allah sendiri, yang membuat segala sesuatu itu takluk kepada Kristus.
You cannot say "everything" means including even what is sinful, as explained in 1 Corinthians 6:12 & 10:23-24 as how the principal in 1 Corinthians 15:27.
*
this verses are the essence of Christian freedom to expand GOD's kingdom actually biggrin.gif...

The empowerment of daily live and ministry it's coming from HS, therefore these verses are supposed to help believers

The devil is using anything necessary, including moral law to limit how everything had been redefined to "everything but not sin" and not sin is defined by moral law.

Fortunately, it's not moral law that empower daily live and ministry. It's HS.

Therefore if not necessary, i don't break moral law unless my HS gave approval first, e.g. to bribe to save the kid in africa.

----

1 Corinthians 6:12. I must not become a slave... how about a slave of Christ ? i assumed still slave of Christ right ? 1 cor 7:22 ... therefore if HS instruct, based on these verses that you wrote... obey lahh... save the kid in africa at all cost. it's lucky nobody shed bloods, only bribing.

1 Corinthians 10:23-24 .. not everything good. bribing it's not good. But it's not condoned if HS approved to bribe to save the kid in Africa

1 Cor 15:27... everything is everything lah bro... including moral law, of course excluding GOD. Actually everything here is powerful. When Babylonian / persian king ruled in old testament. everything king say is the law... yes there is seal / chop for whatever written but essentially when GOD allow them to rule during OT... everything is literally everything.
Now bible say everything under Christ feet.... hmmm.... are you sure everything is not including bribing ?

----

At the end, it's empowerment that counts, not moral law, not "sin or not sin as of moral law view"...
What count ? to break the moral law, to bribe to save children in africa... i need empowerment from HS... or else i assumed it's not my responsibility. Play safe lahh...

well... whatever HS decided GOD is always righteous (ah.. this is pehkay term).





de1929
post Dec 4 2014, 07:41 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Dec 3 2014, 03:21 PM)
Expansion of God's kingdom requires the breaking of moral law .... this is really pushing it bro ... There is no such thing leh.  ohmy.gif

1 John 1:6 “If we say that we have fellowship with Him and walk in the darkness, we lie and are not practicing the truth.”

John says it so clearly .... and he is considered one who ABIDE in the Lord and walking according to the Anointing.
*
That's true biggrin.gif

but that's not the highest law right ?

PS:
expansion of GOD's kingdom is not the highest law
moral law is not the highest law
breaking moral law is not te highest law
fellowship is not the highest law
lie is not the highest law
practicing the truth is not the highest law
considered is not the highest law
John Says is not the highest law

shall i explain the highest law ?

pehkay
post Dec 4 2014, 07:57 AM

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QUOTE(de1929 @ Dec 4 2014, 07:41 AM)
That's true biggrin.gif

but that's not the highest law right ?

PS:
expansion of GOD's kingdom is not the highest law
moral law is not the highest law
breaking moral law is not te highest law
fellowship is not the highest law
lie is not the highest law
practicing the truth is not the highest law
considered is not the highest law
John Says is not the highest law

shall i explain the highest law ?
*
And how does loving God with our whole mind, strength, etc ... cause us to grieve Him?

And how does loving our neighbour constitutes doing something negative to others?

Actually, the point of my question was ... when does following the Spirit results in unrighteousness?
de1929
post Dec 4 2014, 08:55 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Dec 4 2014, 07:57 AM)
And how does loving God with our whole mind, strength, etc ... cause us to grieve Him?

And how does loving our neighbour constitutes doing something negative to others?

Actually, the point of my question was ... when does following the Spirit results in unrighteousness?
*
You think it will cause grieve because you don't get HS replies. Meaning, if HS reply ok then ok it is. if HS reply not ok then not ok it is.

loving our neighbour vs doing something negative to others... well GOD's will first isn't it ? again martin luther (with bible verse in rome like you say) didn't ask for approval for others, and sure marthin luther hurts some of his catholic frens (i assume he is not a lonely guy ok biggrin.gif ) ... sure his catholic frens think he's a stumbling block.. well i was a protestant and i respect what martin luther did biggrin.gif

unrighteousness ? your definition of HS definition ?
de1929
post Dec 4 2014, 09:00 AM

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What am i thinking today

Hebrew 5:11 AMP

11 Concerning this we have much to say which is hard to explain, since you have become dull in your [spiritual] hearing and sluggish [even [f]slothful in achieving spiritual insight].

you guys only use eye to read bible and don't use spiritual hearing ? brows.gif

How many of you think that spirituality (things you don't see in simple definition) is much....much....much....much....much.... more reality than physical life ? icon_question.gif

peace all biggrin.gif
pehkay
post Dec 4 2014, 09:17 AM

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QUOTE(de1929 @ Dec 4 2014, 08:55 AM)
You think it will cause grieve because you don't get HS replies. Meaning, if HS reply ok then ok it is. if HS reply not ok then not ok it is.

loving our neighbour vs doing something negative to others... well GOD's will first isn't it ? again martin luther (with bible verse in rome like you say) didn't ask for approval for others, and sure marthin luther hurts some of his catholic frens (i assume he is not a lonely guy ok biggrin.gif ) ... sure his catholic frens think he's a stumbling block.. well i was a protestant and i respect what martin luther did biggrin.gif

unrighteousness ? your definition of HS definition ?
*
Yalar ... my question still stands ...

What is your definition of righteousness then? biggrin.gif ..... I don't understand why is it my definition since it is in the Bible.

If HS replied ... how does the HS ok with unrighteousness or sinful things? There is no such things. The HS will still be with you when you fails. But it does not mean that HS AGREED with you. To allow permissively is not "one with you" biggrin.gif

So, now Martin Luther's standing for the truth is immoral ? sweat.gif You really serious? How does standing for the truth equates on the same level as stealing or murdering ??!!!

He didn't stand for the "teaching of indulgences for the forgiveness of sin" which was really immoral tongue.gif

He is immoral for fighting against immoral practices sweat.gif

You sure??

To love your neighbour is not to seek others' approval lor.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Dec 4 2014, 09:21 AM
unknown warrior
post Dec 4 2014, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(de1929 @ Dec 4 2014, 07:33 AM)
this verses are the essence of Christian freedom to expand GOD's kingdom actually biggrin.gif...

The empowerment of daily live and ministry it's coming from HS, therefore these verses are supposed to help believers

The devil is using anything necessary, including moral law to limit how everything had been redefined to "everything but not sin" and not sin is defined by moral law.

Fortunately, it's not moral law that empower daily live and ministry. It's HS.

Therefore if not necessary, i don't break moral law unless my HS gave approval first, e.g. to bribe to save the kid in africa.

----

1 Corinthians 6:12. I must not become a slave... how about a slave of Christ ? i assumed still slave of Christ right ? 1 cor 7:22 ... therefore if HS instruct, based on these verses that you wrote... obey lahh... save the kid in africa at all cost. it's lucky nobody shed bloods, only bribing.

1 Corinthians 10:23-24 .. not everything good. bribing it's not good. But it's not condoned if HS approved to bribe to save the kid in Africa

1 Cor 15:27... everything is everything lah bro... including moral law, of course excluding GOD. Actually everything here is powerful. When Babylonian / persian king ruled in old testament. everything king say is the law... yes there is seal / chop for whatever written but essentially when GOD allow them to rule during OT... everything is literally everything.
Now bible say everything under Christ feet.... hmmm.... are you sure everything is not including bribing ?

----

At the end, it's empowerment that counts, not moral law, not "sin or not sin as of moral law view"...
What count ? to break the moral law, to bribe to save children in africa... i need empowerment from HS... or else i assumed it's not my responsibility. Play safe lahh...

well... whatever HS decided GOD is always righteous (ah.. this is pehkay term).
*
To expand God's kingdom is to live out the truth, in the strength of God's might not by strength of Man (Zechariah 4:6). Bribery definitely falls under the strenght of Man because it is deception. Deception to get things done, man's way. I believe God would have moved then and there by prayer. Prayer is God's strength. Bribery is not.

No, actually the verse means that we've been freed from the bondage of sin so don't get trap again. Read it carefully, it never say, just because you can do anything, you can do so. You took in only the permissible part but you ignore the latter part. That's is reading out of context.

The problem is, you don't understand the gravity of the problem of sin. You think some sin is harmless like bribery.

You forgot; the reason why the world has fallen is because of sin. Just 1 sin to open the door to countless destruction and countless sins.

If you condone bribing is okay, you've just open the door for the devil to lie to you, that the next "harmless" sin is also okay.
Soon you don't even know what is right or wrong. That's how deception works. This the problem with your belief.

Moral Law came from the same HS. He is the one empower us to live moral life. So when you say the HS will use whatever necessary means to fight the devil, including going against his own moral law that means you're also saying God is okay with sin and that makes him not consistent.

Sure the devil can use whatever necessary but so what? Is it that hard for God to use supernatural means rather than a natural one? This is my contention with most christians. Where's the faith?
In God or in the things of man to get things done.

You gotta remember, it's not the child life that you need to consider but the officer who receive the bribe as well. We are being watched by a cloud of witnesses, I believe how we display our lives in public is important.

God being righteous is not a matter of decision or whatever saying but his very being and by what he does.

Do you know why God can forgives our sins today? It's not simply because he can do so if he wish but He son bled at the cross. It was a terrible suffering which was suppose to be yours.
You're advocating a flimsy God who is okay with anything, that is not what the Bible teaches.




de1929
post Dec 4 2014, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Dec 4 2014, 09:17 AM)
Yalar ... my question still stands ...

What is your definition of righteousness then? biggrin.gif ..... I don't understand why is it my definition since it is in the Bible.

If HS replied ... how does the HS ok with unrighteousness or sinful things? There is no such things. The HS will still be with you when you fails. But it does not mean that HS AGREED with you. To allow permissively is not "one with you" biggrin.gif

So, now Martin Luther's standing for the truth is immoral ?  sweat.gif You really serious? How does standing for the truth equates on the same level as stealing or murdering ??!!!

He didn't stand for the "teaching of indulgences for the forgiveness of sin" which was really immoral tongue.gif

He is immoral for fighting against immoral practices  sweat.gif

You sure??

To love your neighbour is not to seek others' approval lor.
*
anything that Christ decreed / anything that HS approved... it's righteousness. That's my definition lahh...

martin luther rebels to authority... uhm didn't our bible hates rebellion and equal it to sorcery... no time for google but please let me know if rebellion = sorcerry is wrong...

so rebellion and bribery... same ? equal ? sin ? righteous ? faith ? grace ?

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