Hi sifu-sifu, need some advice for my engagement ring.

Which should i choose for below 3 diamonds.

Price is RM4.5k with 18k white gold setting.

Please refer to attach GIA cert for more info.


Attached File(s)
 2247322726.pdf ( 403.22k ) Number of downloads: 83
 6241427124.pdf ( 403.44k ) Number of downloads: 47
 6241459779.pdf ( 422.27k ) Number of downloads: 39

Pavilion angle reached 41 degrees above will start to leak light:

http://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/maximising-value/
http://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/crown-angle/

Get the best proportions:
http://niceice.com/diamond-buying-secrets/...buying-success/

This post has been edited by kambingkoh: Feb 22 2017, 06:02 PM

This is what I found from the two most readily available online tools.

GIA 2247322726

Enchanted cut score:
76.6. This diamond has an average cut.

HCA score:


GIA 6241427124

Enchanted cut score:
65.6. This diamond is either not well-cut, or has an unrecognized shape.

HCA score:


GIA 6241459779

Enchanted cut score:
76.3. This diamond has an average cut.

HCA score:


Based on the above scores, the first diamond obviously tops the lot, likely because of a shallow cut. Shallow cuts are not entirely bad as opposed to deep cut, cuz you get a larger face-up size. However, most shallow cuts exhibit the ring of death below its table a.k.a. the fisheye effect. So it is recommended to personally view the stone before making any decisions.

This post has been edited by bb100: Feb 22 2017, 06:14 PM

Haha you posted the Enchanted cut scores, I posted the HCA scores, not bad.

Hi all sifu,

I'm looking for a proposal ring.
Had done some research but don't know how to decide.
Lazare and GIa cert diamonds which one better?

Sifu, meaning all 3 diamond also pavilion also above 41 degreee? Not a good buy?

Lazare uses in-house cert. They grade the stones themselves. Cert details are not available online and the cert itself does not tell all proportions (Star Length, if not mistaken). GIA cert is a well-recognized cert worldwide and is an independent diamond lab.

Not all Lazares are cut to perform that well. Some can be pretty good, some can be mediocre, but all are overpriced.

Hearts & Arrows failed for one of the Lazare diamonds I saw on a pendant actually didn't quite meet the standard. This is normal because there are not selling Hearts & Arrows (super-ideal), they are just selling ideal cut. I saw some that can perform well under LED lighting at retail store, but I can't be sure if they can perform the same under normal lighting conditions. As you know, in retail stores, most stuff blings.

To get an idea what is the difference of Hearts & Arrows and Lazare, go to Tomei/Gold Heart/My Diamond and check out their Le Lumiere, then go to DeGem and check out their Lazare. You can go to Mid Valley as there is a flagship Le Lumiere store and a DeGem store there, you may even drop by Bangsar's DeGem to check things out. Let me know if you can tell the difference, or which one you preferred. I can't guarantee that all Le Lumiere may reached Hearts & Arrows standard, but since this is their selling point, I believe some of them may reach the standard. See few of them and compare to few Lazares. So, you will come down to a few conclusions:

1. Hearts & Arrows performs better than Lazare.
2. Lazare performs better than Hearts & Arrows.
3. Shit, I can't see the difference man.

If you reached conclusion 1:
Great. You have more options for H&A diamonds now. Do consider WhiteFlash or Brian Gavin if you are considering Hearts & Arrows as their price will be cheaper than retail stores (most likely).

If you reached conclusion 2:
It is overpriced (for example, a 0.42 there can be a RM 3500 - RM 4000 difference compared to what you can get from WhiteFlash or Brian Gavin), but money can be earned again. Buy what you and your partner desired is usually more important, as long as you don't go over your budget.

If you reached conclusion 3:
Then please refer conclusion 1 to save some $$.

My thoughts:

I am always looking for balanced performance, that means, fire and light return works well with each other. Some diamond can be cut with steep crown angle to increase the fire, but this will sacrifice on light return. This kind of steep crown angle will create a very fiery effect on the diamond under pin-fire lighting (e.g. candles), but since we live in a modern world where fluorescent lamp is used more than candle, this steep crown angle may cause the diamond looks duller. Hence, I always look for something that can bring a balanced performance in all environments, hence we need to look at the proportions of the diamonds.

The proportions for Lazare diamonds are actually quite good to be honest:

But we can get such proportions as well at a more reasonable price.

Why Hearts & Arrows? Because for optical precision, so that it can perform well from all viewing angles. And because to me, this the creation of Hearts & Arrows require remarkable skills and the end product is a piece of fine art.

Does GIA has great diamonds?
Yes, definitely. Just that you will require more time to filter out because the standard for triple excellent does not guarantee that the stone is surely top notch in terms of performance. One thing I know is that it will surely be cheaper. Besides, you have readily available tools such as Enchanted Cut Score to quickly help you filter out poor performers. Refer here:
http://myengagementringexperience.blogspot...-brilliant.html

Hope this helps and good luck!

Thanks sifu.

41 degree is the max you should go, from what I learned. So diamond 1 is still okay. Just that the table is pretty wide and the diamond is on the shallow side.

Look at what I can filter out from Brian Gavin (all are affiliate links):

My preference, top to bottom:
USD 757 + USD 55 = USD 812. Convert to ringgit = RM 3670.24. Add GST = RM 3890.45. Add CUSTOM ring setting by Memory Jewellery @ RM1000 = RM 4890.45
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds...?a_aid=myengexp
USD 769 + USD 55 = USD 824. Convert to ringgit = RM 3724.48. Add GST = RM 3947.95. Add CUSTOM ring setting by Memory Jewellery @ RM1000 = RM 4947.95
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds...?a_aid=myengexp
USD 888 + USD 55 = USD 943. Convert to ringgit = RM 4262.36. Add GST = RM 4518.10. Add CUSTOM ring setting by Memory Jewellery @ RM1000 = RM 5518.10
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds...?a_aid=myengexp
USD 743 + USD 55 = USD 798. Convert to ringgit = RM 3606.96. Add GST = RM 3823.38. Add CUSTOM ring setting by Memory Jewellery @ RM1000 = RM 4823.38
This is an older diamond, not sure why still in their inventory, I suspect may be a trade-in diamond for upgrade. Anyway, just a guess.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds...?a_aid=myengexp

Note:
Memory Jewellery ring setting starts from RM 750 for existing design. I am indicating custom setting here.
They don't contain palladium and contain abit nickel (not all people allergic to it, but some do). However, at this price point. It is worth it. I can always upgrade the setting in the future.

Poorly cut diamond cost can go up to 30% difference in price, based on this site. So, if you ask me, none of the GIA diamonds you provided are worth the purchase. I rather drop the colour to F and take the RM 4890.45 0.303 F VS2. After all, it is a signature line that is handpicked by Brian Gavin himself.

Let me know if you need further assistance.

This post has been edited by kambingkoh: May 7 2017, 08:53 PM

Dear All,

How would you rate this diamond ring? How much do you think it worth?

Actually how diamond is value? Clarity etc overweight size?

Thank you for your clarification. I've no idea at all, now I wanna find ring to propose to my gf....

Diamond is based on how rare it is. It will be a mixture of all the 4Cs.

Color S-W? Are you interested in Yellow Diamonds? If you are, then I would suggest you go as further down the colour range as possible, so that it will look more yellow, and thus will make more sense to buy such colour grade. Even at Z colour, I believe it should be relatively cheaper than a D colour diamond though, because after Z colour, there seems to be more and more yellow grades. I just read this: http://www.leibish.com/au/about-fancy-yell...nds-article-347. The price really depends how yellow it is.

I2 - Why would you want a diamond with the such low clarity/a lot inclusions? Unless the yellow colour reached a very yellowish colour that makes it so rare and so unique, then I won't think this is a good buy. At S-W colour, I don't think is worth it to be honest.

Referring to this:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/f...ity-sku-2477876
The price is USD 2400. Carat is 1.4ct, inclusion is I1. Already can see the inclusion clearly on the surface. It is only has "Very Good" for cut, polish, and symmetry. Colour is U-V.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/f...ity-sku-2245157
The price is USD 3090. Same I1 clarity, polish is "Excellent" and symmetry is "Very Good". Smaller size, but more expensive than the 1.4ct? Why? The "polish" is one of the factors that this is more expensive, however, the inclusion for this diamond is also quite visible, so I don't think it will affect the price too much compared to the diamond above. The other factor may be the fluorescence of the diamond above, which is strong vs. faint for this diamond, but then, I don't think this will affect the price so much as well. So, what is the other factor? I believe it should be the colour -> Fancy Light Yellow, as stated in the GIA cert. Cut is no longer stated there, which I don't know why, my guess is because people buy such stone for colour, so they don't really bother about cut that much.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/f...rity-sku-674346
Now, look at this. A whopping USD 12610. Still the same size and same clarity as the 2nd stone above. Polish and Symmetry is only "Good". But why the huge gap in terms of price? Check out the GIA cert -> Fancy Vivid Yellow. So, based on such scenario, I believe the weight of the price lies on the rarity of the colour.

Of course, if the cut of the diamond is nice, I believe the price for each diamond should be relatively higher as well.
So back to your question. How much does it cost? Using diamond 1 from JamesAllen as base, because that is the closest range to the diamond you ask, the price per carat will be USD 2400/1.4 = 1714.29. So, for your 1.05ct, the price will be USD 1714.29 x 1.05ct = USD 1800. A 14K white gold ring probably will cost you not more than a thousand ringgit. So, let's convert all back to ringgit:

USD 1800 x 4.52 (I put higher because when we buy USD, the price will be slightly more) = RM 8136.
Add ring setting RM 1000 = RM 9136.

Since you one is an I2 diamond, the price should be lower than this. And cut may also affect the price, since your colour is still within the standard colour scale. So it would be best if you could share the cert number. Also, what is the price offered? Lastly, are you sure you are willing to sacrifice on inclusion?

I have also excluded GST by mistake, but it should be okay because the price should still be lower than RM 9136 stated.

This post has been edited by kambingkoh: Feb 24 2017, 02:22 PM

Wow, what a thorough review and analyses. Thank you so much~It's from ebay and I was offered RM2k for the said diamond. Do you all think it worth buying? How to make sure diamond is genuine through online purchase? Sorry, another noobie question

Will they provide any cert? To be honest, RM 2K for a 1ct diamond together with ring setting is very dodgy to me. How reliable is the seller? Check out their reputation on ebay, make sure they provide GIA cert or AGS cert. Better still, get the cert number so that we can help you to take a look. Buying blind like this may be a scam, so becareful. It is really too cheap to be true.

Read this:
http://www.jewelry-secrets.com/Blog/i2-clarity-diamonds/

Btw, do you have the ebay link?

This post has been edited by kambingkoh: Feb 26 2017, 04:30 PM

Hi All Sifu,

Need some advise from you. I am looking to propose to my beloved soon (mid or early mid of the year). However, I feel that most of the people I know uses round shape diamond to propose. What about Heart Shape Diamonds? I am thinking to propose with Heart Shaped Diamond to make it more special or at least unique.

As it does not sound like a norm, few questions in mind:

1. Could I get a raise of hand of how many people proposed with Heart Shaped Diamond?
2. What would be the difficulty / Cons of Heart Shaped Diamond compare to round shape? (Not as shiny?, difficult to put onto ring?, Girls dislike heart shape diamond?
3. I am looking for this 0.45 carat (Click Here for GIA). What do you think?



This post has been edited by LevelUp_Macha: Feb 26 2017, 09:31 PM

Maybe bb100 can help you out, since he has one heart shape diamond.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, finally found someone who is on the same wavelength with me! I got myself a heart shaped diamond too for my upcoming proposal cuz round diamond is too mainstream hahaha.



Now allow me to answer your questions.

1. Me!!!

2. Fancy cuts cannot be compared one-on-one with round brilliants, as both their target audience is different. Round brilliants are for people who want the most bling, while fancy cuts are for those who are after the shape - pear, cushion, oval, heart, etc. Of course, one has to sacrifice sparkle and brilliance for these unique shapes. But that does not mean that you can settle for a badly cut heart shaped diamond. Even though a heart shaped diamond might not be as sparkly as its round counterpart, the stone will still sparkle if it is a well cut diamond.

3. To be honest, do not get a heart shape of less than 0.5 carat. Anything below 0.5 will make the heart shape indistinguishable and it will look like a badly cut round diamond even from close range. However, if you cannot go beyond that size due to budget constrains, one trick is to do a bezel setting. This type of setting will accentuate the shape of the heart beautifully. Also, try and get a heart shape with excellent symmetry cuz it is very important to have an exact mirror image of both halves of the heart. Otherwise, your heart will look cacat.

Ohh yes, one more thing. The L/W ratio of your selected diamond is 0.86, which is slightly fat, in my opinion. The ideal heart shape, or "happy heart" is somewhere between 0.90-0.92. A L/W ratio of above 0.93 will make it look elongated and thin, macam your heart shape tak cukup makan hahaha. These are more suitable for pendants. But this is more of a personal preference lahh. If you think that an elongated heart looks nice, by all means go ahead.

This post has been edited by bb100: Feb 26 2017, 11:46 PM

Fuiyooh. Jann Paul explained to you all that?

Half half lahh. I learnt a lot about fancy cuts cuz they have all sorts of shapes there. The salesperson one by one let me see under the ASET scope haha. Then he explained why fancy cuts cannot compare with round brilliant lohh.

Some I sendiri researched online like minimum size for heart shape and the ideal L/W ratio. Researched liao then went back to JannPaul there to confirm haha.

I see...