I don't think you cheated death.

God kept death at bay probably He got your back and He has something in store for you in this life. 

Bro Piros,

I've also showed you the preceding verses that it is not. I am reading scripture. This is not my words.

The Bible is very consistent. God first gives you the grace, sanctify you then there's usually the word "therefore" be holy, avoid sin, yada yada.

Whenever there's a "therefore" in a verse, you read the preceding verses to understand in totality.

Man has no ability to sanctify himself. You know that.

The one who does the sanctification process is God alone, our role is just to walk in it.

The principal is the same in all the books. God says that you have been sanctified, made holy, God working in you, etc etc....THEREFORE do not give in to sin, do not this and that.

We are changed by the renewal of our mind we are not changed by our works whether it's sanctification or whatever.

The renewal of our mind is to consistently agree with God's word that WE ARE ALREADY made Holy And Righteous.

THAT IS THE BATTLE and I can tell you it's not easy.

Remember the verse that says mighty in pulling down strongholds, very imagination....all this is indication of mind renewal processes.

The Bible also made it very very clearly, WE ARE TRANSFORMED by the renewal of our mind. Based on THAT alone, it defeats the idea that we need to do the sanctification work. Our role is to believe and walk in what God has already given us.

Our battle is not with Sin. Jesus already dealt with that. Our Battle is this.

The Righteous shall live by Faith. Meaning We need to live with the right type of believe. Everything hangs on how we  believe (Faith). When you have the right type of Faith, the Fruits of the Holy Spirit is the result not works of the Holy Spirit. Fruits. The one who does the pruning, the watering, the feeding is God the Father (Abiding in the vine). The Sanctification is from Him.

Here is another food for thought.

Jesus said. I AM the vine YOU ARE the branch.

It didn't say YOU TRY TO BE the branch or Struggle to be the branch or SANCTIFY yourself to be a branch.

GOD declared YOU ARE the Branch. (Already is). Now either you agree with that or you look it from the point you need to try to be because you know you still have flaws. If you think you need to, then you're reasoning based on what you see of yourself not what the scripture says. This is where most Christians missed it. The Bible says  WE ARE Already MADE complete in Christ and yet many time we don't agree because we look at ourselves and our life and say our flaws doesn't match what the Bible say therefore it must mean that we still need to struggle.

You know what is the problem? We keep looking at ourselves WHEN the Bible says to KEEP ON LOOKING TO JESUS as the author and the FINISHER of our Faith.

In of ourselves we have no power to change, no matter how hard you try. Either we let God and God alone do it or we do it. There's no in between. (Romans 11:6)

Last one. Remember you quoted this?

Romans 6:18 - You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

See the early part of the verse " you have been set free"  HAVE BEEN. God did that part. He sanctified you "HAVE BEEN". THEN the proceeding verse becomes slaves to righteousness.

All that in the context God is the one who sanctify.

I really pray that the Holy Spirit help you to see this.

My previous argument:


Do you want also then to include Paul's argument in Ephesians 4:17-5:21?

Sanctification is our work, yet God's! The term theologians normally use is "Synergistic"

God calls us to be holy, commands us to throw off sinful ways, and the directions to be like Christ. That is our work. Yet God promise that He himself is at work in us, and that He will strengthen and assist us. (Philippians 2:13, 2 Corinthians 3:18, 4:16, 1 Peter 1:2)

Sanctification is a process, we are at war with sin. But the entire sanctification will not be ours until our bodies are changed into the likeness of Christ's glorious body at his return (Philippians 3:21, 1 John 3:21, Romans 7:24)

Sanctification is also the supreme test that our conversion is genuine, and without growing in holiness nobody will see the Lord. (Hebrews 12:14)


You using the doctrine of Grace and Justification to say sanctification is the work of God alone. Again & again I have pointed you, you are BULLDOZING the doctrine of Sanctification with the doctrine of Grace & Justification. What's worst? Is that you are completely ignorant these verses by going back to the previous verses where it either talks about Grace or Justification, not Sanctification.

Furthermore, I have also shown many a times how to read in context of scriptures you are using, yet you are either not rebutting it, or completely ignoring and then abundant it totally, and go on to quote other verses from other books again going back to Grace & Justification. Yes! You should read the previous verse when the word 'therefore'. Good! But you are doing this and completely IGNORE what the author is saying after 'therefore'! Which really baffles me on how can you completely ignore that and only stick to that portion of the scripture?

And you know what are you doing furthermore? You're indirectly implying that "I can live however I want since now I'm saved by God'. Why is that? You're stretching the doctrine of Grace & Justification to an extend where you don't have to do anything anymore since you're save now. This is where the problem starts. That is the reason Paul pen down Romans 6:15 and onwards is because he knew if stopped at the doctrine of Grace & Justification, people will take sin lightly and live however they want. But that is not the biblical teaching.

You are taking one side of the Doctrine of Sanctification and saying that is all, but I'm arguing that is not the biblical teaching. The biblical teaching is "Synergistic" when in comes to the Doctrine of Sanctification.

And you wonder why @Sylar111 concluded that you are saying 'I can sin however much I want since I'm save and am under grace!' When you argue you are not saying that, you insist.

Why the did than @Sylar111 assume then you are? Because YOU ARE INDIRECTLY IMPLYING THAT!

How? You completely ignore our duty as Christians, we ought to Mortify sin! Which is our process in the doctrine of Sanctification.

Again, look at my bold part of the scripture on top. Tell me? Is this not also the scripture? Tell me, am I'm ignoring that the fact Sanctification is work of God? No! In fact, I'm saying it is the work of God, but not God's alone, it is our work too.

Anyways whether you will eventually agree with me or stand your ground through it all, I will not put forth any argument anymore. May the Lord be you always.

My previous argument:


Do you want also then to include Paul's argument in Ephesians 4:17-5:21?

Sanctification is our work, yet God's! The term theologians normally use is "Synergistic"

God calls us to be holy, commands us to throw off sinful ways, and the directions to be like Christ. That is our work. Yet God promise that He himself is at work in us, and that He will strengthen and assist us. (Philippians 2:13, 2 Corinthians 3:18, 4:16, 1 Peter 1:2)

Sanctification is a process, we are at war with sin. But the entire sanctification will not be ours until our bodies are changed into the likeness of Christ's glorious body at his return (Philippians 3:21, 1 John 3:21, Romans 7:24)

Sanctification is also the supreme test that our conversion is genuine, and without growing in holiness nobody will see the Lord. (Hebrews 12:14)


You using the doctrine of Grace and Justification to say sanctification is the work of God alone. Again & again I have pointed you, you are BULLDOZING the doctrine of Sanctification with the doctrine of Grace & Justification. What's worst? Is that you are completely ignorant these verses by going back to the previous verses where it either talks about Grace or Justification, not Sanctification.

Furthermore, I have also shown many a times how to read in context of scriptures you are using, yet you are either not rebutting it, or completely ignoring and then abundant it totally, and go on to quote other verses from other books again going back to Grace & Justification. Yes! You should read the previous verse when the word 'therefore'. Good! But you are doing this and completely IGNORE what the author is saying after 'therefore'! Which really baffles me on how can you completely ignore that and only stick to that portion of the scripture?

And you know what are you doing furthermore? You're indirectly implying that "I can live however I want since now I'm saved by God'. Why is that? You're stretching the doctrine of Grace & Justification to an extend where you don't have to do anything anymore since you're save now. This is where the problem starts. That is the reason Paul pen down Romans 6:15 and onwards is because he knew if stopped at the doctrine of Grace & Justification, people will take sin lightly and live however they want. But that is not the biblical teaching.

You are taking one side of the Doctrine of Sanctification and saying that is all, but I'm arguing that is not the biblical teaching. The biblical teaching is "Synergistic" when in comes to the Doctrine of Sanctification.

And you wonder why @Sylar111 concluded that you are saying 'I can sin however much I want since I'm save and am under grace!' When you argue you are not saying that, you insist.

Why the did than @Sylar111 assume then you are? Because YOU ARE INDIRECTLY IMPLYING THAT!

How? You completely ignore our duty as Christians, we ought to Mortify sin! Which is our process in the doctrine of Sanctification.

Again, look at my bold part of the scripture on top. Tell me? Is this not also the scripture? Tell me, am I'm ignoring that the fact Sanctification is work of God? No! In fact, I'm saying it is the work of God, but not God's alone, it is our work too.

Anyways whether you will eventually agree with me or stand your ground through it all, I will not put forth any argument anymore. May the Lord be you always.

it seems that in the old testament, there has been a lot of killing from the Israelite by god commands, it makes me feel that war nowadays is something normal 

I think I did request (twice) that you show me where did I even said what you claim.

Your refusal to show or perhaps you couldn't find it, now that is amazing indeed.

Because there isn't any.

Prove me wrong. If you say I'm denial then it shouldn't that tough to point it out.

There isn't any?

Are you sure?

You sure did mentioned the first statement. I just changed it a little to reflect what you are implying because to me, all of the words of the bible should be taken seriously.
Why can't you go and trace it yourself because this is what you should do because you would be slandering others.
If you do not want to make the effort to find out yourself then you can think whatever.
And this actually proof my point that you are never ever firm with what you say. You just twist and turn to fit what you say.
The reason why I do not even want to show you is because I am totally fed up with your behavoir. To be honest your behavoir is worst then someone who does not know Christ and I think at this point, even a non believer would trace back what he has said. The fact that you did not do that makes you worst then a non believer.

I am pretty sure Piros knows where you make that statement. Want to ask him to help you to trace?

And you really should know where i am coming from with regards to the second statement.

Are you so forgetful?

I do not think this is the first time that people are actually commenting about your integrity. I think many people notice that you actually change the subject matter or even twist things. That is why people are losing patience with you. Did you notice that no one actually visits your thread anymore? Have you wondered why?

Actually I do have something to share. I agree that sanctification comes from the holy spirit and that through the holy spirit changes sanctifies the person over time But at the same time, upon conversion, the person will also express a regret of his sin. If there was no regret, then this person is not saved. Whenever that person commit sins, he will regret it heavily. So, he realizes that he needs God's strength and not his own strength to overcome sin. A person who is saved will be sensitive to sin even though he may not be able to overcome it by his own strength. So yes, I do have something in common with you.

Anyway, last reply because I do not think I can waste any more time with someone with does not have much integrity.

Actually I got to admit that you do step onto many people's toe not because you are serious about the bible but because you want to defend your own stand. In fact, most of the time, even the most patience of brothers got fed up because of your character. They do not normally get fed up in other debates so go figure.

Another thing. Notice why I always emphasize that as Christians we should have more integrity then non believers? I think you know that as well. It's not to say that we do not sin anymore but the fact is that we are more sensitive to sin and our standards are actually higher compared to non believers.

And let's be honest over here. The reason you are debating with me in the first place is because you knew that I would eventually step on your toes so you need to take action first in order to establish authority. Let's not kid ourself here. I do know how the world works. God did give me some wisdom.

Li'll Bro, you keep attacking me, I'm trying my best to be patience you know?
You are like trying to provoke me to respond emotionally but I refuse.
Look back at how I post, I don't think I use emotional responses like how you do.
If you want to talk about integrity, be fair and see for yourself.
I think if other people, they would have blasted you left right unmerciful.

Did I make personal remark against you?
I don't use words like slandering, no integrity, like how you use so frequent against me.
When I post, I usually write the wider audience, not so much for you, unless I say it.

People around here already know that but you are rather new here.
Maybe you think you know how the world works but I can definitely say you don't know me enough.

That's why I ask you to point out where I err with you but you refuse.

Sigh.

My previous argument:


Do you want also then to include Paul's argument in Ephesians 4:17-5:21?

Sanctification is our work, yet God's! The term theologians normally use is "Synergistic"

God calls us to be holy, commands us to throw off sinful ways, and the directions to be like Christ. That is our work. Yet God promise that He himself is at work in us, and that He will strengthen and assist us. (Philippians 2:13, 2 Corinthians 3:18, 4:16, 1 Peter 1:2)

Sanctification is a process, we are at war with sin. But the entire sanctification will not be ours until our bodies are changed into the likeness of Christ's glorious body at his return (Philippians 3:21, 1 John 3:21, Romans 7:24)

Sanctification is also the supreme test that our conversion is genuine, and without growing in holiness nobody will see the Lord. (Hebrews 12:14)


You using the doctrine of Grace and Justification to say sanctification is the work of God alone. Again & again I have pointed you, you are BULLDOZING the doctrine of Sanctification with the doctrine of Grace & Justification. What's worst? Is that you are completely ignorant these verses by going back to the previous verses where it either talks about Grace or Justification, not Sanctification.

Furthermore, I have also shown many a times how to read in context of scriptures you are using, yet you are either not rebutting it, or completely ignoring and then Abandon it totally, and go on to quote other verses from other books again going back to Grace & Justification. Yes! You should read the previous verse when the word 'therefore'. Good! But you are doing this and completely IGNORE what the author is saying after 'therefore'! Which really baffles me on how can you completely ignore that and only stick to that portion of the scripture?

And you know what are you doing furthermore? You're indirectly implying that "I can live however I want since now I'm saved by God'. Why is that? You're stretching the doctrine of Grace & Justification to an extend where you don't have to do anything anymore since you're save now. This is where the problem starts. That is the reason Paul pen down Romans 6:15 and onwards is because he knew if stopped at the doctrine of Grace & Justification, people will take sin lightly and live however they want. But that is not the biblical teaching.

You are taking one side of the Doctrine of Sanctification and saying that is all, but I'm arguing that is not the biblical teaching. The biblical teaching is "Synergistic" when in comes to the Doctrine of Sanctification.

And you wonder why @Sylar111 concluded that you are saying 'I can sin however much I want since I'm save and am under grace!' When you argue you are not saying that, you insist.

Why the did than @Sylar111 assume then you are? Because YOU ARE INDIRECTLY IMPLYING THAT!

How? You completely ignore our duty as Christians, we ought to Mortify sin! Which is our process in the doctrine of Sanctification.

Again, look at my bold part of the scripture on top. Tell me? Is this not also the scripture? Tell me, am I'm ignoring that the fact Sanctification is work of God? No! In fact, I'm saying it is the work of God, but not God's alone, it is our work too.

Anyways whether you will eventually agree with me or stand your ground through it all, I will not put forth any argument anymore. May the Lord be you always.

The very same thing that people accused Paul of, so IF I'm misunderstood, I guess I stand with Paul as being misunderstood in the context of Romans 6:1. People are afraid that too much Grace will give people license to sin. It's not. Looking at the scripture, evidence for evidence I believe it's consistent.

Romans 6:1 - What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?

Do you see the similarity, people accuse Paul of the same thing as what you and sylar111 accuse me of. 

I agree for Sanctification, not against it only I differ the way about it, how it's done, I based my reasons from digestion of the scripture over time. Only Grace can bring us out of sin. (Romans 6:14) And it works effortlessly by the spirit, none of my strength.

I agree with you in the sense, we want to arrive at the same destination, I am for Holiness, I am for Righteousness.  It may look like synergistic Sanctification but perhaps we understand the roles differently.

I am very zealous for the truth as well, along with you and sylar111, don't get me wrong, In fact if you allow me to say it, I think I'm far more zealous than anyone else which is bad really because I tend to step on people's toes 

I don't know about you but I see only God who has the power to sanctify, Man has absolutely no power, neither the strength to do it. Our Role is to keep on consistently believe in the word of God that declares us Righteous until the transformation manifest. The Righteous shall live by FAITH not by works.

I know what you explained has been understood as it is in the Church for so many centuries.

I don't want to cause any disharmony to you and or anyone else. Shalom.

guys this is not a thread for you to venge your personal opinion about how the bible work, different people has different opinion about the bible as you both has a different theology, which the teaching is different so if u want debate on who is right please do it so in PM..............this is not the place for you say who is right in championing the word of GOd, if you have different opinion work it out among yourself, UW bible version may be different from your bible version sylar..............

UW, i suggest we use 1 standard bible version in this thread make it understandable for everyone who read it, i suggest to use NIV UK version or NJKV version for bible phrase here

Yeah sure no problem. I kinda like New King James version.

too many bible version is confusing as their translation is different and word is not matching with each other

For me I find that the more translation there are, it suppose to give better insight to a particular word.

If unsure, can always check the hebrew and greek n check it up with the concordance, thayer's Greek and Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew.

After all the word of God is alive, can be applied in life situation, any circumstances.

I think the most universal version now is still the NIV, so we can stick with that as the standard.

i always saw your quotes seem like it is not from either NIV or NKJV but pehkay version is scripture posted here is NIV i think

anyone here following Hillsong conference right now?

https://hillsong.com/backstage