Doesn't anyone think its strange that the F 35 JSF has ALWAYS been CHOSEN by the various governments ....and to date no F 35 was ever chosen on merit or even in a tender process.

Below is a link leaked by John Stillion and Harold Scott Perdue, two analysts at RAND, who were asked to do a war time simulation in 2008 on an attack by China on Taiwan and US forces going to Taiwan's aid.

It also touches on simulated war scenarios between the F 22, F 35 and Sukhoi.....where in every aspect the F 35 was "blown out of the sky" by the Chinese Sukhoi's. It also looks critically at the role and effectiveness of the BVR war scenario.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/42891479/Air-C...sent-and-Future
(RAND is a think tank in Santa Monica, California. Founded in 1948, RAND maintains close ties to the Air Force. The air arm provides classified data, and in return RAND games out possible war scenarios for government planners).


Another article on the comparisons between the F 22, JSF, Chengdu J20, SU 35 and PAK FA...where the PAKFA was rated the best aircraft in the bunch ...in essence the best fighter aircraft in the world.

http://www.ausairpower.net/index.html
(Air Power Australia is a non-profit entity established with the primary aim of air power research and analysis, especially in the context of a modern integrated joint national force structure).

This post has been edited by Phillip_x: Nov 20 2013, 05:30 PM

F-35 are so primadonna..too many drama..not sure if tis is good or bad

F-35 is not that bad.
the only thing troubling the project were cost over runs.
it will took them quite awhile for its to mature.
The f35 spec have been downgrade due to lack of funding.
in term of ncw f35 is way ahead of those rival stealth fighter imo.

Let see the primadonna symptoms (caveat :- these were problems faced and I am not sure if it has been solved) Here is a list of the Novel deficiencies of the F35 :-

Total system crashes (few times)
Soft skin - cant take any bullet hits ..therefor can only fight BVR
Cant fly near 20 nautical miles of a electric storm
Cant fly in rain
One F35 cant communicate with another F35 or any other aircraft
Short legs
Low weapons capacity internally...if it carries external weapons load stealth diminished
Not really stealth full
Not sure if BVR really works as it has been claimed
At one time test pilots refused to fly it
Single engine plane
Algorithms keep increasing now 24 million less than half accomplished
Very expensive

This post has been edited by Phillip_x: Nov 20 2013, 05:47 PM

FT quote the other day , f35 is slow and maneuverability not even on a par with conventional jet fighter tht we hv today......

at the end of the day, f35 is just suit for surveillance and reconnaissance task aircraft only lol,as fancy "Steatlh" comes at a price................

This post has been edited by nikita zuleica: Nov 20 2013, 05:51 PM

Are you sure they cannot communicate with each other?
What do you mean by fully stealth?
If you want huge weapons loads without compromising stealth might as well use b2.
Most aircraft cant take much hits unless it were su25 or a10.
I do recall they did some a2a and bvr testing not long ago.
not sure about it cannot fly during raining times.

apsal untung?

the M16 has killed vietnamese,africans,arabs,persians and a lot of innocent people.Tavor ada?

2 very different weapons in a single supply chain?well thats stupid

the pictures look very weird.tavors with vietnam war era ammo belt.looks like the jews went back in time


err yes and no.the main political parties in afghanistan are held by people who were in the Northern Alliance
people like Hamid Karzai are mujahideen but there are also people like Rashid Dostum who led a fight against the mujahideen in the 80s
People have to remember that the mujahideen wasn't a organization but just a bunch of guys united against a common enemy(soviets) and when the enemy was gone started fighting each other.when another common enemy arrived(taliban),they decided to form the Northern alliance

people seem to think that after the soviets left there was peace until NATO bombed the living shit out of that place.how I wish that was true

a fighter with new technology,biasa la teething problems

all of the problems are hearsay or under fixing.its not a finished product,dont judge it too early

the f-16 broke down constantly in its early days

the F-18E/F was hated and still is hated by USN pilots.its callsign is rhino because its big,ugly and slow as f***

Indonesian Marines 68th Anniversary Gallery.











source

speaking of marines..how did it go with US's offer, the LPD USS Denver? does Mindef interested?

yes,I have Master's degree and moved to SEA to be a security guard

I advise on security matters only because of my background,not my real job leh

cis aku tertinggal perkataan consultancy je!
Black Water tu security guard jugak

aku ajak lepak sokmo tak mo mu!

Hahaha, are u involve in the recent Rumaila incident? If you do, we might be working with the same company I know that my co hired ex military personnel

for advisory and preemptive team for security purpose.

pelan2 ganti. our boys molle style vest pakai belt pouch gak

btw i dunno but afaik them thais going to phase-out their current M16A2 with Tavor,with some units getting micro tavor (dunno if they gonna keep the mepro sight. not that they complain abt it)

What do you mean by fully stealth ?

Production aircraft will likely be delivered in 'high stealth' (US) and 'low stealth' (export) configurations.The stealth capability in the JSF is designed for low cost and maintainability, rather than best possible stealth performance.

Stealth is achieved by a combination of shaping, detail design and absorbent/glossy materials, with shaping being the most dominant feature by some degree. While detail design and materials can evolve over the life of a design, and be upgraded incrementally to match an evolving threat, airframe shaping is fixed and whatever limits it imposes are unchangable.

This is the pitfall of economy 'narrowband' stealth - it can defeat upper band radars used for the engagement control, BUT IS MUCH LESS EFFECTIVE IN DEFEATING LONG RANGE SYSTEMS USED TO ACQUIRE TARGETS. IF A Su-30 CAN BE POSITIONED CLOSE ENOUGH IT CAN ENGAGE THE JSF IRRESPECTIVE OF STEALTH ,and with a kinematic and missile performance advantage the odds are unlikely to favour the JSF.

Source:-http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-JSF-Analysis.html

" What the USAF will not tell you is that ‘stealthy’ aircraft are quite detectable by radar; it is simply a question of the type of radar and its angle relative to the aircraft…"
Pierre M. Spey, a key member of the F-16 and A-10 design teams

Source:-http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-f-35s-air-to-air-capability-
controversy-05089/

Stealth fighters are not invisible just difficult to detect on certain radar frequency.Countering stealth ? Nebo SVU VHF AESA -already in service, Chinese CETC Y27
Source:- http://www.docstoc.com/docs/42891479/Air-C...sent-and-Future


If you want huge weapons loads without compromising stealth might as well use b2.

JSF F35 -

SEVERELY REDUCED STEALTH CAPABILITY
An air-to-air load of eight AIM-120s and two AIM-9s is possible using internal and external weapons stations; a configuration of six 2,000 lb (910 kg) bombs, two AIM-120s and two AIM-9s can also be arranged.

STEALTH MODE WITH INTERNAL WEAPONS
2 (TWO) Air to Air missiles, 2 bombs ONLY


So stealth or reduced stealth ?
When the F35 fires their 2 (TWO) AAM's they will have to turn back and run for dear life with their totally not stealthy red hot nozzle facing the Enemy errr Sukhoi has 12 weapon stations AND AN INTERNALLY MOUNTED GUN . ONLY AIR FORCE F35 has an internally mounted gun and the others GUESS? in STEALTH ATTACHMENT POD ! OH yes F35 has short legs may not make it back to carriers as carriers have to be placed out of anti ship missiles be they land or ship based (let alone air launched). ALSO it has 1 engine !

Since advent of BVR missiles 588 air to air kills have been recorded by BVR equipped forces. ACTUAL BVR KILLS 24 !

Source:-http://www.docstoc.com/docs/42891479/Air-Combat-Past-Present-and-Future


Most aircraft cant take much hits unless it were su25 or a10.

F 35 is the exception extremely thin skin as they had to reduce weight. Also they can only manage sustained turns at 5g or less USAF 4.6g (just like 1960's aircraft).

Source:- http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-f-...troversy-05089/


I do recall they did some a2a and bvr testing not long ago.

Yes they did but there is limitation as to what they can carry internally as internal weapon bay area different sizes and limited specs as to length of missile.


not sure about it cannot fly during raining times.

Read /watched somewhere that it could not (minor kink not sure if its rectified) will try to get and attach the link.... and F 35 LIGHTNING 2 , cant fly during lightning !..they are fixing it.(video interview with Gen.Bogdan below)

Are you sure they cannot communicate with each other?

Yes read it / watched it sometime back ...have been trying to find the link but not successful. Will post i once i find it.


Meanwhile here is an in depth report by Four Corners Australia on the F35 with critical interviews with Lt.Gen.Chris Bogdan, Executive Officer F35 programme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pteMgYPm1xM

Also article dated 30th October 2013 by the Center For Arms Control and Proliferation titled
Fact Sheet: The F-35 “Lightning II” JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER (JSF)

http://armscontrolcenter.org/issues/securi...ke_fighter_jsf/



And in order to be complete and fair Rand issued a statement in September 2008 regarding the report:-

“Recently, articles have appeared in the Australian press with assertions regarding a war game in which analysts from the RAND Corporation were involved. Those reports are not accurate. RAND did not present any analysis at the war game relating to the performance of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, nor did the game attempt detailed adjudication of air-to-air combat. Neither the game nor the assessments by RAND in support of the game undertook any comparison of the fighting qualities of particular fighter aircraft”

However in May 30, 2013 Defence Industry daily stated "That last assertion is true. On the other hand, DID managed to obtain a copy of the RAND Power Point briefing external link. When the full briefing is read, RAND’s study does have implications for the F-35. They are decidedly mixed.......
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-f-...troversy-05089/

Once the F 35 programme matures it may be a great plane once it finds its niche as there a great many proponents to this plane concept. How great only time will tell.


This post has been edited by Phillip_x: Nov 21 2013, 02:08 AM

kuantan is rape capital.do not want
hehe maybe.OPSEC yo

I work in an office.spent too much time in the field already.occasionally join the training courses for fun

They dun have term of fuly stealth.
low observable or very low observable.
As for jsf is still under vlo but putting more emphasise on frontal rcs.
X-band and upper s-band would have tough times tracking it.
Btw the closer you are to the radar the higher chances you will be detect are applied to all stealth fighter.

nothing wrong being single engine.
it only allowed to carry more heavier payload and longer distance.

Rand analyst were having quite lots of dispute.

But meh I dun expect much fron these f35 anyway still need lots of times to develop.

Yes you are right too many words so I use stealth...

"nothing wrong being single engine.it only allowed to carry more heavier payload and longer distance. "...

Totally agree my bad i was referring more to the Navy they need two engines for safety and distance since carriers based out of enemy anti ship / anti air range of fire apart from the payload. There is some talk navy not happy and may pull out...same with Canadians as they want twin engine aircraft...safer over water and over the cold North ...they want the FA18 E/F.

Rand analyst were having quite lots of dispute.

Yes, both analyst left Rand...but the input gleaned is still good. A lot of people discrediting the report but Why? Every one who spoke against it has been blackballed.
Now some of them fighting back eg. Defence Industry Daily....and now they are using the Govt oversight reports to whack back.

But meh I dun expect much fron these f35

Neither do I. Time will tell whether its a success or not but according to the latest they have again exceeded the costing.

The biggest problem f35 is having 3 variants and f35b is the biggest problem they have to dealt with.
Usn were not happy due the original spec were not meet.

On a differ note multi nation defence project dun seem to be working well.