Hi situ,

Have you heard of this Evergreen Fund from hong leong bank?
It is very aggressive which is combination of REITs, unit trust, mutual fund, stock and etc.
The package seems to be very promising on the return rates and too rewarding.

http://www.hlb.com.my/pfs/ins/inshlss.jsp?flag=inshlss

Have anyone heard of it? Mind to share your thoughts?

Arigato!

It's basically another saving plan or income builder plan.

Sounds a lot like the CIMB Islamic investment plan...many have commented that it ended up delivering sub-par returns for the risk undertaken.

This:
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=805771&hl=

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Jul 21 2013, 04:56 PM

What do u mean by "delivering sub-par returns" ?

Means the profit (if any) does not match up for the level of risk that u are putting yourself into.

What is your opinion in these kind of investment plan ?

you can get much better investment out there than locking up your money for so many years and may end up losing money due to insurance charges eat up your profit..

FYI: it IS linked to the same CIMB islamic investment plan that pink spider brought up.

it's like A -> B -> C

A is HLB, B is Hong Leong Assurance, C is CIMB Islamic

Really? How u know?

If really that's the case, then don't bother

Really.

And i do research...

By referring latest HLA investment linked funds performance reports,

Types of funds:

Evergreen 2023 decline in NAV/units to RM0.887 compared FY 2012 @ RM0.907.
Evergreen 2025 increase in NAV/units to RM0.859 compared FY 2012 @ RM0.858.
Evergreen 2028 decline in NAV/units to RM0.824 compared FY 2012 @ RM0.843.
Evergreen 2030 decline in NAV/units to RM0.805 compared FY 2012 @ RM0.846.
Evergreen 2035 decline in NAV/units to RM0.769 compared FY 2012 @ RM0.819.

- The only lucky fund HLA Evergreen 2025 with annual return @ 0.12%????

- Any experts/agent from HLA may describe this events before i pull out my funds from this kind of slow moving fund?

- My POV is simple, y i need to invest in this type of return [0.12% p.a] instead of i'm save it in my bank account/savings a/c which also can generated more than that \o/. No need to compare with property investment which valued better than this fund.

To the agents: please make me clear on this product or else HLA gonna give a good reason on why the fund appears to be slow moving funds with low income generated. Thank you.

you will lose alot if you pull out

did those funds made any dividend distribution for those period?

If it's insurance linked, will lose a lot if surrender. Is this insurance linked ?

I am not sure.. hehe

now they make this as investment link product, they call it HLA evergain where 80% premium go to the fund and 20% will go to life insurance... the unique feature for this is upon maturity they will buy back your units with highest unit price that the fund have reached within the tenure (from min 9 years to 21 years), some sort of guaranteed return that they will buy back at locked highest price upon maturity ... so anyone in the known care to explain the pros and cons?

1) your agent lied. it's ILP. your first year premium, only 40% (or 45% i don't remember, HLA increased it) goes to the investment... from that investment, insurance company will deduct the charges (insurance, admin, fund management)

2) And the 80% 20%... also wrong info... 80% of that 40% will be invested into EverGreen fund (the unique feature applies to the FUND NOT the insurance product). 20% of that 40% will be invested into low risk fund for deduction of the charges stated in 1).

The unique feature, no doubt is great cause there's minimum unit price that they guarantee for you at maturity.

3) so i just visited the cacated website... and got some figures from it. the below are from the website, if you look properly. LOL. i just happened to know which figures means what.

link

take the example of the one maturing in 2023, in 9 years time...

current price 0.9014
Current guaranteed price 1.2358 (this can be higher but not lower, if fund perform good, then higher lo)

I buy this at 0.9014... 9 years later i cash in at 1.2358

so... 0.9014*(1.0357)^9=1.2358

so compounding get about 3.57% p.a return. (approximately, just to illustrate)
this is purely on the investment side. you need to factor in the cost of the entire insurance policy.

4) So... i like the feature... say if i have a kid, i'm saving for his/her education, i want a relatively low risk investment, then i go for something like this but if FD giving similar return, well, hmm... but... you need to understand is... this is INSURANCE, INVESTMENT-LINKED POLICY.

5) the returns will definitely be lower from what i illustrated because of other charges. Of course, if investment return is good, then maybe can earn more, but... this will depend on how CIMB because ultimately, the investments is invested with CIMB Evergreen

of course, other investment also got charges and risk...

Questions?

Edit: wrong used of ^ previously. Fixed

This post has been edited by adele123: Jul 23 2014, 11:19 PM

So it is a no go since compounding is only 3.5%...

D guarantee price upon maturity -v- current price upon entry is almost similar to CIMB Max InvestSave (100% investment)

It's almost similar because it is essentially the same thing. I have explained the 'mechanics' in previous post, up there.

But fyi the person who asked.... This investment has not been performing well since inception... Though it's better now... Only slightly...

Thank for the info. Because try download their brochure illustration is still using 80/20 %
http://www.hla.com.my/product_and_services...on=product&id=8

http://www.hla.com.my/CorpSiteCMS/Presenta.../1394205944.pdf

however notice the appendix 5 stated: allocated premium to purchase the unit actually is based on years i.e. 1st year 45%, 2nd years 50%, 3rd and 4th year 76%, 5th and 6th year 90%, 7 years and above 100% ....

further look at the charges:
rm5 monthly policy fee and still need to pay yearly fund management fee between 0.25-1.30% ... probably take back their guarantee bonus unit and guarantee additional allocation already ... hmmm

Ya. You notice appendix 5, the point I was trying to highlight. 80/20 is how your investment is allocated. My point was NOT all the money you pay goes to these investment, as you have already notice the illustration under appendix 5. I was afraid you didn’t know about the conditions in appendix 5.

For ALL investment-linked insurance, all insurance/takaful companies will charge monthly policy fee of RM5. I’ve seen RM6, if I remembered correctly, it was Etiqa. I don’t remember hearing any insurance companies not charging it.
Fund management fee is normal like any investment fund. The fund with the ‘unique’ feature, charges 1.30% p.a.

HLA Cash Fund charges 0.25% p.a. It’s those low risk, low return fund that invest in money market or similar type la.

the thing is this plan is sort of like feeder fund to CIMB fund, the charges actually mean original CIMB management fee or additionally charges on top by HLA? also if i didn't hear wrongly there is exit fee incur too if redeem.

this, you have to ask HLA whether you are paying double the charges or not, implicitly to CIMB and explicitly to HLA? i'm afraid agents are not likely to know the answer of it.

Well, this is an insurance plan. There isn't an exit fee. Well, not in the way you would think.

as you probably can understand by now... not all the premium paid is allocated towards your investment fund. it's only 100% from year 7 and after... what you pay over the 1st 6 years, those not allocated towards your fund (which is quite high), those are like your 'exit fee'... YOU will almost certainly lose some of the money your have paid earlier on to HLA. Highly unlikely to break even during the first few years, after all, we are talking about investment funds.

That is why there's always a warning on... "Life Insurance is long term commitment... you will lose more than you have paid if you cancel ..."

one of the agent told me about their guarantee pay out 20% on the amount you invest p.a.? anyone know what this?

I need to know which insurance plan they are talking about.

anyway... no such figures of return is remotely possible. LOL

I think that is previous HLA product so called 'CASH PROMISE'. This plan already withdraw last few weeks and launch another new plan so called 'WEALTH PLAN' now.

I think that is previous HLA product so called 'CASH PROMISE'. This plan already withdraw last few weeks and launch another new plan so called 'WEALTH PLAN' now.

hi guys, i've been approachd by agent regard this fund..can some one advise/comment about this fund? is it really good to invest in? what pro & cons? really need some info before decide..TQ

HL group? I can only use cheat and mislead to describe.
Even yesterday a ******* from HL group start bullshiting that mid income group no need to have fuel subsidy also won't affect much

example

Please read my previous post and do some homework.

Quick note
1) this is an investment-linked insurance plan. Not pure investment. if you want pure investment this is not it.
2) if you already have existing insurance plan, suggest you to not get this as well.
3) PROS: if you hold to maturity, they have something called minimum guarantee unit price
4) CONS: it's insurance plan, you might not need it. they deduct charges cause insurance company do need to charge you by providing insurance coverage.

My take? No. not worth it. i rather take my money put in FD.

hi adele123,

tq for such a info..it help me a lot to make a wise decision..
i've heard is a combination of hla n cimb for these fund.

the evergreen thing, it's managed by CIMB. HLA just feed into them.

This HLA evergreen is just a saving plan managed by CIMB by buying into mutual fund-like scheme.

The returns are very similar to most of the other company saving plan.

The main point is that a saving plan is there to provide you a fixed savings that you put into if you're not the kind of person that saves a lot as a pool of fund for additional fund for retirement or education.

I would like to know more about this , as far as I know the premium only paid for 6years only. Am I right?

It depends on which plan u choose

hope you won't be confused.

Like any investment-linked insurance plan, there is flexibility to pay or not to pay premium for the whole of life of the insurance coverage term. the insurance plan will sustain provided there's sufficient money inside to deduct insurance charges.

in reality, the premium for this HLA plan is meant to be payable every year, and not meant for 6 years only. the option is there to convert to a 6-year premium payment.

i just signed this plan for 3 months ago and i wish to cancel the plan now although i knw that i will lose the money that i paid before this. bt i found that the agent is lying to me and nt describe clearly to me and the agent is so untrusting. The agent keep ask me to pay money even before the due date for more thn 3 weeks with the bad attitude like im owing the money.they should remind you its about time for the payment but not asking you to pay money like u r owing thm. its so annoying. Any way can i cancel it?

U can directly go to HLA branch or get in touch with me ...to be mentioned , the surrender value been paid back to u will lower than the amount u paid last 3 months , if u okay with that , I will help u terminate ...

I spoke to HLA salesperson last week about this fund. The summary of the conversation are yes, it is an insurance linked investment funds. During the course of my investment, if I mati, yes there're will be an investment payout to my family.

Another point is, say i start investment for 30k first year, i have to continue invest another 30k for 2nd year and 30k for 3rd year. If i take out before the 3rd year, sure will not return 100 percent. There's only a profit return after the 3rd year. Can I say only guaranteed profit after 3 years?

Am I correct?

This post has been edited by frostfrench: Sep 22 2015, 05:13 PM

This is a long term saving plan.... don't expect to profit in the first 15 years ...

thank you. Long term is not for me.

This post has been edited by frostfrench: Sep 23 2015, 11:01 AM

Need some advise bros here... i just bought this plan less than a year paying a premium of RM6k. What is the breakeven ? Say if i were to withdraw by the year 7, will i get all what i have put in ?

My agent says can. Or is she lying. Since some of u mention it is a long term savings for 15 years to start seeing a profit..

without punching calculators or being technical at all, and i'm pretty sure i'm 99% correct...

no, you can't break even by year 7.

why you ask?

HLA Brochure

Please refer to page 11, #4.

in the initial 6 years, 173% of your annual premium is gets burnt...

how do you break even to earn back this portion?

Long story short for the average layman
1) this is an insurance product with investment element, not a pure investment product
2) before you say HLA is bad, every insurance company out there do charge you something, else how can they earn money?
3) insurance... break even is possible... but hold long term... and long is very long...
4) if you want pure investment product, don't buy investment-linked insurance.

Thank you. Appreciate. dont feel to continue next year . maybe i will cancel it. not sure if i get anything back...

This post has been edited by Ah Goo: Oct 6 2015, 11:05 PM

if you have more questions, i can answer in detail. after you study what you have bought.

you will definitely get something back. just not much. insurance is meant for long term.

you work in insurance industry?

Hello there, can you kindly explain the bolded parts? I've been promised that I can withdraw everything out by year 7.

Here's what I've been told:

Say I put in 100k every year. For 6 years.

Yearly cashback 20k + 2000(depending on HLA's performance) + extra cash incentives

If I withdraw everything out on year 7, I'll still gain. Even after deducting inflation 6%, GST 6%

Do correct me if I'm wrong.

you give 100k for 6 years... total 600k

you get back 22000 for 6 years... total 132k...

need i explain further?

like i said, you need to read the brochure and understand first, then maybe read my post here

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=76757524

This post has been edited by adele123: Oct 7 2015, 07:09 PM

this is a cash value or permanent life insurance product with variable returns-a not inconsiderable amount or substantial portion of your monthly or yearly contributions are invested in mutual funds run either by the insurance co or manage by 'partner' or 3rd party independent mutual funds.as we grow older,the portion allocated to 'investment' diminishes while the premium for the other part-life insurance increases

the insured can borrowed or even paid the premium by using those cash value accumulated in the investment'account'

the return on the investment and hence your 'cash value'is solely dependent on the performance of the mutual fund and these products imposes a hefty penalty for early withrawal which presumably would deter most participants from leaving the insurance scheme

if you are only interested in the life insurance part of the deal-just buy a term insurance wihich is considerable cheaper than this whole life insurance product

these are products originally designed in usa for taxation purposes as monies invested in the product can grow without incurring any capital gains/personal tax until withrawal

It's advisable to get your financial planning check again by someone who genuine is there is help you out and see if it's reasonable to cancel it or not.

If you have any question, feel free to ask me.

i've just get my policy yesterday, is it really not a wise choice to put money in this?

Appreciate it. Thank you so much..

Hi.. I just want to know when can we get back all our principal and the accrued interest with this evergain fund? After how many years? The agent that approached me says 12 years?

And then he said current price is 0.82
The guaranteed price when i cash in at the end of my contract is at least 1.42



I can't understand how the earlier calculation works.. so how much percentage of interest do I expect?

This post has been edited by wkyrichie: Nov 28 2015, 11:05 PM

Bro.. you are more into Stocks or Forex?

No other investment instrument other than these two?

Avoid 126 group selling this product. I was cheated by agent of theirs

Possible to elaborate more on how you was cheated? This group is from Klang Valley?

Based at Kota damansara. No full disclaimer of the product & grace period

if current price is 0.82 and minimumly you will get at least 1.42 12 years later, then...

0.82*(1.0469)^12=1.42

So... 0.82, earning 4.69% every year and compounded, 12 years later you get 1.42. sounds good?

Now the problem is this...

1) you lock your money for 12 years minimum (based on what your agent is telling you). can go for 4.5% FD lately... lock in 1 year only...

2) this is the price you buy, and the price you can sell. but those are NOT your actual returns...

let's use simple examples with simple numbers

Now over say 12 years, assuming you buy 1000 units per year, you should have 12000 units... correct?

BUT... over 12 years, some of these units will be deducted to pay for insurance coverage, say 50 units per year...

so at the end your balance is say 11400 units... so... your actual return has to factor in these too...

So... 4.69%? no not really...

Last time my insurance say pay for 14 year then can opt not to pay. Policy will continue by itself.

But now already 17 years.. Cash value + dividends only can sustain like 2++ years only if i opt not to pay the annual premium...

Sigh...

I wouldn't advise to save inside a saving plan unless you're not a prudent saver or you are good in investing in other areas that will generate you a better return

Scam alert on this plan

interesting...would you mind elaborate more on this? where and how?
BNM has guidelines and review procedure on new products introduced by insurers and takaful operators.
BNM missed out and you noticed?

The plan itself wun scam. It's the selling agent who usually explain in wrong way.

I wouldn't call something that lays down in writing what u would get yourself into as a scam.

profit not as good as something else =/= scam

u no exercise diligence and read thru the prospectus and related documents, it's your own fault. We live in a capitalist society -caveat emptor. Capitalism punishes the lazy, rewards the industrious.

I'm not sure why anyone would buy a savings plan like this.

If you buy a simple 15/20/25 year term insurance and put the rest into an FD, you'd probably do better.

No to mention you'd have very high liquidity, without any fixed commitment.

Agree with you...

As you know ppl buy these mainly there do not have much knowledge on insurance savings plan, did not do research.. Another is of course the agent promising the sky..

Anyone had a look at the underlying funds ? TS mentioned aggressive.... I agree.

https://portal.hla.com.my/CMS/getattachment...et_Sep2015.aspx

Champion of champions fund.

This post has been edited by lukenn: Dec 23 2015, 12:20 PM

I only see lousy funds

True true

Do agents read line by line? 99% they not even know the plan.

Anyhow with increasing of interest rate & asnb ... Better go the route of FD n trust than this ... If u want insurance just get PA only few hundred a year

Sorry OT a bit, but just sharing.

Just read through some of the comments and thought I'd share this. The plan itself may not be clear, but the agent is the one who generally mis-represents.

I went through one of the links to another page, and saw the numbers of an old HL product called HL Cash Promise. If you know what to look for the numbers are quite obvious.

The moral of this story is to always ask for an illustration of how it works, with facts and figures, of course. In this scenario, best effort is slightly better than FD, but with a very long lock in period.



This post has been edited by lukenn: Dec 26 2015, 01:44 PM

Hi All

May i know is every product of HLA came with insurance?

I have been told by my friend if i put x amount (one time only) for min. 3 years, i can get back premium + interest

Haven't met that friend yet but would like to get more information first.

is this the correct site to browse the product? http://www.hla.com.my/product_and_services.aspx

Yes. because HLA is an insurance company.

and yes... but bear in mind THIS IS NOT investment product. if you are looking to invest and get something in return in 3 to 5 years, THIS IS NOT the way to go.

thank you for the info and advice.

i read the product sheets and see how...ask u all if i have further questions

thanks again!!!!

If need insurance get a purely insurance product.. If want to grow money by their interest, avoid this. Go elsewhere to do investment..

I have go through the products listed on HLA website and i found "Venture Invest Plus" which sound like what my friend is trying to sell to me - put x amount (one time) for x years.

the product sheet : http://www.hla.com.my/CorpSiteCMS/Presenta.../1403699557.pdf
the product site : http://www.hla.com.my/product_and_services...n=product&id=31

Can someone please correct me if im wrong?

Thank u in advance.

Venture Invest Plus is a single premium investment-linked insurance plan.

In layman terms, it works almost the same as a normal unit trust product... you put in premium once and ONCE only... (you can top up like unit trust product, as well) Except that if say the customer passed away, the insurance company will pay either the investment fund value OR the basic sum assured, whichever is higher.

SO... explanation aside... i am 99% sure what your friend recommended is this:
HLA EverGain Plus

To be honest, what your friend said is rather misleading...



Being an insurance product, and especially within the first few years, the money that you get back will be very much less the amount that you have paid. So, my personal opinion is that if you are looking for investment product, not HLA please.

IF you looking for insurance product, NOT this HLA EverGain Plus. The way they sell their insurance products, is rather misleading and not to your advantage.

Thank you, adele123.

HLA EverGain Plus has annual premium to be paid rite (like every year till the policy ends - i dont wan this kind of commitment)?

That friend is somehow considered best friend of mine so kinda hard to reject if he hard selling HLA product to me later.

Once i meet my friend, i will come back and ask more heheheheeee......

once you had bought and passed the cooling of period...no need to ask here again lor...

Hehe.. Besy friend also can be enemy when comes to money

After reading here and there i have come to a conclusion and it is purely my opinion. Please correct me if I am wrong. I didn't look really into details the technicality and the numbers, I emphasized more on the features and concept.

Pros
1. Its an insurance therefore there will be payout if touch wood anything happens
2. And at the same time it gives you return on your premium paid. e.g you paid RMxxx and you get back RMxxx + RMxx (returns depending on the fund performance) at maturity. If the fund really perform then jackpot lo if worst case scenario you get back return almost equal FD.
3. Its protected by PIDM means its a recognized product. Bank savings account also protected but lesser than insurance.
4. Its capital guaranteed so this means if you put RMxxx you will get back RMxxx guaranteed... right?? - pls correct me if I am wrong.
5. Its also for legacy planning cause apparently if you goes down under (dead), touch wood, your next of kin will get cash from this plan within a short period compared to other assets including cash in bank accounts which might take too long to be transferred to your loves ones and also properties which might take years to settle...

Cons
1. It will locked your money until maturity: early withdrawal will not get back your full money invested. Therefore must be pretty sure you won't use that money until maturity.
2. It won't get as high return as other investments such as shares or even maybe unit trusts but those are also riskier..
3. The return might even be equal to FD but FD no insurance coverage on you ma...
4. If you are so into returns maybe you should not put your money in this instead invest in riskier schemes...

Anything else??

This post has been edited by adele123: Mar 11 2016, 07:35 PM

Hi adele123

If the performance is worst than FD i.e the plan achieving only 2% return then that's really bad..

From what you have replied for Pros = 1,3,5 it is fine for me but for 3 just to clarify, I thought PIDM is to protect the depositor from an institution like a bank when it goes bankrupt.. Are you saying if the bank goes bankrupt PIDM will payout when the depositor is dead??

For Pros 2 and 4 I hope you have some actual past performance that you can share to support your answers... I just want to be crystal clear if you don't mind

For Cons number 2 - even if the underlying asset is unit trust itself but there is already a guaranteed price so I guess it will be less riskier than unit trust right? correct me if I am wrong again.

Thank you

PIDM protects 2 things that i know of. one is savings account, one is insurance policy. PIDM doesn't pay out when the depositor die. i think most people don't see that pidm doesn't just protect savings, it protects insurance too.

Pros 2...

HLA EverGreen Fund 2023: Current price as at 08/03/2016 is 0.9183. Price at maturity at Dec 2023 is 1.2358. Using excel i can tell you the compounded return over 7.5 years is 4.04%. I used 7.5 year as an approximation.

HLA EverGreen Fund 2035: Current price as at 08/03/2016 is 0.8451. Price at maturity at Dec 2035 is 1.4221. Using excel again, the compounded return over 19.5 years is 2.71%, using approximation of 19.5 years.

All these information are obtained below, except of return percentage.
HLA EverGreen Fund

Now, the above calculation assumes that every single cent you put with HLA is used to buy the funds and there are no charges. truth is there are charges.

even assume that all the money you paid in, goes to the investment fund, because it's an insurance product, it deducts monthly charges to pay for the cost of insurance. also for the first 6 years of the premium payment, which means not all the premium you paid goes into investment. part of the premium you paid goes to commission. so... factoring all these expenses, the actual return will be lower than the one i calculated above.

the numbers shown are actual numbers, not even based on past performance. assuming current performance.

the example i showed at number 4 is to illustrate what it means when it says price is guaranteed, doesn't mean capital guaranteed. two very very different scenario that brings very very different results.

Hi, anybody know how much commission will the agent get when close evergreen deal ?

e.g Yearly 10k deal

This post has been edited by primacom: Apr 7 2016, 03:25 PM

*double post*

This post has been edited by vergas: Apr 15 2016, 04:52 PM

You can ask the agent. smile.gif

Or you can estimate, look at their small print in the first year only 45% of the premium you paid goes to your investment account, the remaining 65% will goes mostly to the sales force.

depends on the tenure, I think their plan all revert back to ILP already. 20% of 10k = 2k

i think this fund u cant just pay 6 years n put there until maturity,
it is intended for u to keep top-up the unit when price low to owned more unit until maturity

anyway. can you share how u calculate the compounded interest return? thx

I already explained, using excel. One can use financial.calculator.

0.9183*(1+0.0404)^7.5=1.2358