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 The SSD Thread V4, Solid State Drive

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horns
post Dec 1 2014, 10:46 AM

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QUOTE(terradrive @ Nov 30 2014, 01:27 AM)
Just got myself Crucial MX100 256GB, never knew my pc can load things so fast now  sweat.gif
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I can still remember my dad's face when i upgraded his i3 laptop. I think he wanted to hug me lol!

I wanted to give him a i7 laptop with a larger ssd, but he told me that i3 was good enough, and a small drive is fine. So i just replaced the old hdd with a ssd (ocz vertex 3 120gb) and bumped the ram to 8gb (2gb ramdisk).

No more complaints since then.

horns
post Dec 1 2014, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(terradrive @ Dec 1 2014, 04:18 PM)
Last time I always leave my PC on when I didn't use it for a while, now I just off lol! Can turn it on back very fast, so syok.
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nice smile.gif

QUOTE(Clumsy_JJ @ Dec 1 2014, 06:06 PM)
Thanks for ur comment. Then how about the bug fixed firmware update bug fixed for samsung? Is it i need to install the update if i use samsung ???

Thanks
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yes the bug in samsung 840 evo was fixed. you can use samsung magician or crystal disk info to verify the firmware version. (the bugfix firmware version is EXT0CB60 for sata ssd and EXT42B6Q for msata ssd)

QUOTE(charkoteow3 @ Dec 1 2014, 06:11 PM)
idk if this is the right place to ask but here goes.

im planning to add an SSD into my workstation. (mainly for adobe illustrator and photoshop)
will there be bottleneck issues if I reinstall everything (my softwares) into the SSD but leaving the OS in my current  HDD?

too lazy to install the OS again.
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i think you should reconsider the option. putting the OS into ssd is important to take advantage of much faster boot-up. actually that's the whole point of having a ssd imo. you pay for boosting up everything in the system. this should include your OS hehe
horns
post Dec 2 2014, 08:57 AM

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QUOTE(charkoteow3 @ Dec 2 2014, 01:57 AM)
how often do you reboot your pc? i can't remember the last time i turn this baby off.
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quite often. many times. everyday hehe

QUOTE(wildwestgoh @ Dec 2 2014, 06:51 AM)
Work PC, reboot? We shut down everyday to conserve electricity. sweat.gif
Not to talk about those high-end monster that choke water faster than we drink, save electricity, save the earth. tongue.gif

p/s: Server aside.. different story. blush.gif
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yes, it's a good practice. nowadays, nas takes over the role of file server. there is no need to run machines 24/7.
horns
post Dec 2 2014, 11:08 AM

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uh? maybe it's because they put the empty unallocated partition at the end of the drive for over provisioning purposes.

horns
post Dec 2 2014, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(Human10 @ Dec 2 2014, 05:25 PM)
Just go LYP again (yeah, I kaki LYP, will visit there from time to time depend on mood, LEL).

Seems like Sri Computer's Crucial MX100 256GB is back with stock (may not be too much though).

But still I ended up settling for Transcend 370 due to being the cheapest 512GB around, sub RM700.

Hope I didn't made any wrong decision.
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tbh the price of sub 700 is very attractive. i have read about this transcend drive from review sites. from reviews it is indeed a very affordable ssd, with damn good values. the one graph at thessdreview.com is particularly surprising imo.

Attached Image

it is impressive. notice that the top two use the same Silicon Motion SM2246EN controller. several other drives, like Corsair Force LX and PNY Optima are using the same controller.

maybe later you can tell us how it fares?

edit: noise? what noise?

This post has been edited by horns: Dec 2 2014, 10:24 PM
horns
post Dec 3 2014, 12:54 AM

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QUOTE(Human10 @ Dec 3 2014, 12:03 AM)
Can't deliver much, as my PSU is sent for RMA, currently testing it on my SATA2 laptop. laugh.gif

Some high pitch vibrating noise. Googled around and they say SSD may offer suffer from coil whine or resonance too. sweat.gif

Also, even for budget SSD, the built is a little too flimsy and light with the plastic case...
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oh ok haha

i guess the high pitch noise doesn't affect the drive's performance. the plastic case, well, let's see if the temperature is good enough. for general use i guess it should be fine. normally manufacturers use metal case to serve as heat spreader. thermal pads are placed between chips and metal case for that purpose. (not all have pads, so i guess it's not really a big deal)

although the price is that of a value drive, it's tagged as premium by transcend. its endurance rating (tbw) is kind of crazy. (http://www.legitreviews.com/transcend-ssd370-128gb-sata-6gbs-ssd-review_150465/9)
horns
post Dec 3 2014, 09:26 AM

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QUOTE(marfccy @ Dec 3 2014, 12:56 AM)
1TB version have 1000+TB endurance shocking.gif
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yes. the last time i checked they have no official tbw published. note that the scope of warranty is also based on the indicator of its software (ssd scope).

i think endurance is not an issue for ssd. what's left for us to learn is the performance of this drive, especially in real world usage.
horns
post Dec 3 2014, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(wildwestgoh @ Dec 3 2014, 01:08 PM)
Any SAS SSD out there with reasonable price? Looking to find a SSD for a company's server but the SSD price is one hell of a joke, yes it has good endurance (200GB @ 3.86PB) but it just don't justify the high price, I could buy a high-end PC with that price alone.

Is Enterprise SSD came out just so to earn more from "Enterprise"? sweat.gif
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QUOTE(wildwestgoh @ Dec 3 2014, 01:21 PM)
Erm, If that server uses SATA then I won't be headache right now, but it's SAS...  doh.gif A darn evil that created to sucks money out of Enterprise market.
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sas ssd is expensive because of its endurance.

i think you should consult options from your vendor for much better warranty support (imo that's the better way to secure the investment)

QUOTE(Human10 @ Dec 3 2014, 01:25 PM)
Not sure if reliable, but may be try if an sata adapter will work?
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this is one option hehe

edit:

after weeks of previous benchmarks, these are the current ones for samsung 840 evo sata and msata:

840 evo, sata, 500gb
Attached Image

840 evo, msata, 500gb
Attached Image

sm841, sata, 512gb
Attached Image

crucial m500, sata, 960gb
Attached Image

crucial m500, sata, 960gb
Attached Image

all seemed fine. however if you still followed the feedback at overclock.net, there are still mixed reviews. not sure what's wrong, but on my side it's good now.

This post has been edited by horns: Dec 3 2014, 05:31 PM
horns
post Dec 7 2014, 04:20 PM

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QUOTE(powerwoot @ Dec 6 2014, 10:10 PM)
huh, something that we are looking forward, this is good news  rclxms.gif

http://techreport.com/review/27436/the-ssd...aking-petabytes
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yes it seems that ssd's have the endurance that we need. even with those samples which died half way of this test, we can't live that long to witness their deaths. if this is the case, the questions about premature deaths for those drives that we had on hand might be related to other factors than nand flash endurance. there are still a number of observations can be made from this test. it's for you to find out hehe

QUOTE(ronaldjoe @ Dec 7 2014, 12:09 AM)
a nice comparison smile.gif

pcie is definitely the way to go for a system in near future. this will be true when nvme ssd's start populating the market. however if you take into accounts the costs to achieve the same for now, sata options are still good.

horns
post Dec 8 2014, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(ainuddin @ Dec 7 2014, 11:29 PM)
hi guys, need some pointers here. this is my current SSDs condition;

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


is the drive still good? been serving me well for almost 6 years now, planning to get the intel 730 240gb as replacement if things go downwards too quick. is it a good choice? it has 5 years warranty which is good, but everyone seems more interested in the samsung series.
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looks good to me, too. you can check based on values in the last page of this guide (http://oczforum.com/staff/meander/OCZ_SSD_ABC_Guide.pdf) fyi ocz vertex 2 was released in 2010.

the main difference in intel 730 is the enterprise-grade nand flash chip that has much higher endurance.
horns
post Dec 8 2014, 02:23 PM

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QUOTE(ainuddin @ Dec 8 2014, 01:56 PM)
oh ya, sorry about that, ya i bought this back in 2010, when SSD prices were insane. i haven't been upgrading anything for a while, so decided to dump my cash on it. one of my best pc upgrading decision ever.
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if the capacity is a problem to you, then you should consider the upgrade. ssd's today, with the same price, have capacity and speed that is double of the older drives. to get that full speed you need sata3.

you can convert the old drive to secondary disk in your rig, or become a portable.
horns
post Dec 9 2014, 10:24 AM

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QUOTE(DreamScars @ Dec 8 2014, 08:07 PM)
hello guys, i wanna know is it true that for crucial m500 every drive from 120GB-960GB only has a 72TB write life time? regardless of the capacity size?

i saw one user complain from another forum about the write life time, which should scale with capacity.
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yeah that's the case. crucial has this rule for some times. i do hope they change it later. (because that term makes their 1tb looks pricey)

QUOTE(DreamScars @ Dec 8 2014, 08:31 PM)
alright thanks for clearing it up smile.gif

i'm going to get the 240gb variant at under rm400. is it a good drive?
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QUOTE(DreamScars @ Dec 8 2014, 09:40 PM)
kinda tight on budget so only able to buy ssd's under rm400  smile.gif
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ideally for m500/mx100, you should get 480/512gb instead of 240gb/256gb. for m550, you can get the 256gb.

QUOTE(DreamScars @ Dec 9 2014, 01:57 AM)
will take a look at it  smile.gif

that said, i will not see much of a performance difference between different ssd's right?
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usually not much.

horns
post Dec 9 2014, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(DreamScars @ Dec 9 2014, 11:04 AM)
i can't afford higher capacities model for now so have to make do with 240gb at most  smile.gif

how about crucial m500 240gb vs transcend ssd370 256gb, which will be better?
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that's the ideal case. to me the problem with smaller m500 is that its performance is not up to par, due to reduced parallelism. (note that this is a purchase consideration, not mandatory. most ssd's are way faster than hdd)

sorry i'm not sure about ssd370. maybe someone with the drive can give you a better idea.

for general use, anything that can stay in steady state of at least 350MB/s will bring you peace of mind.
horns
post Dec 9 2014, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(DreamScars @ Dec 9 2014, 01:11 PM)
thanks, i've made up my mind and will be buying the m500. In 2 years time i will probably be buying another ssd with larger capacity and faster speed and this will go into my old laptop  smile.gif

only used hdd so far, i'm looking forward to receive my ssd soon biggrin.gif
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oh ok. yeah most probably you will upgrade in two years hehe

--

samsung 850 evo is coming, with new tlc nand and 5-year warranty. a tlc that can do 2k p/e (samsung said). inside one of articles they also mentioned the p/e cycles of samsung 850 pro and 845dc pro to be 6k p/e and 40k p/e. it's no wonder the price is so steep!

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8747/samsung...-850-evo-review
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/19553...-the-mainstream



horns
post Dec 9 2014, 05:48 PM

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QUOTE(chocobo7779 @ Dec 9 2014, 04:46 PM)
hmm.gif Not bad... though I think the pricing looks awfully expensive for me.... sweat.gif

Anyway, note that the prices are MSRP, which means that retailers will likely to price it lower than suggested pricing. icon_idea.gif
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well yeah but the price is still on the high side.
horns
post Dec 9 2014, 10:04 PM

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QUOTE(Human10 @ Dec 9 2014, 08:45 PM)
Wondering why Samsung as a big chip manufacturer themselves still playing with TLC instead of MLC or even SLC... sweat.gif

My point is that do MLC/SLC really much pricier than TLC even Samsung manufacture the chips themselves?
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from what i have read, 85% of the manufacturing costs of a ssd actually go to nand flash chips. yes it's pricey i guess.

i think their idea is to make tlc chips more cost-effective on their end (reduced manufacturing costs. tlc chip is inexpensive to produce compared to the other two). another thing about the other two is physical limitations. slc/mlc requires more physical space. as things go smaller each day, there might be a problem to house 2tb mlc/slc in a m.2 form.

furthermore, there are plenty of rooms to improve tlc it seems. with further improvements in reliability and endurance, they can mass produce tlc chips in very large quantity to bring the costs even lower. when the qualities of tlc chips are very close to mlc (or slc if that's even possible. we already know ram can be used to serve as internal cache. it's basically indestructible), all we can get from the market will be tlc-based, while slc/mlc will be used for enterprise-class only.

the above are just my clueless thoughts. don't take it seriously hehe
horns
post Dec 9 2014, 10:08 PM

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QUOTE(marfccy @ Dec 9 2014, 09:44 PM)
shhh its business point of view  rolleyes.gif

why would they sell you something that can last long, when they can sell you something that couldnt?

capitalism ho!
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yes i agree that it's about business. however, 850 evo is now said to have 2k p/e, with 5-year warranty. i believe there are still rooms for improvements.
horns
post Dec 9 2014, 10:18 PM

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QUOTE(marfccy @ Dec 9 2014, 10:11 PM)
3D NAND is doing good there biggrin.gif

but im still not convinced of it being TLC
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lol! yeah i myself am not fond of it also hahaha! still, i think time will tell smile.gif meanwhile, mlc FTW!
horns
post Dec 10 2014, 08:48 AM

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QUOTE(marfccy @ Dec 10 2014, 03:32 AM)
thats the only thing preventing me from purchasing the 840 Evo, when i was first hunting for SSDs

i saw good speed and software support, but TLC NAND, then endless debate within myself doh.gif

then wanted to opt for 840 Pro, but too pricey (that time was 400+ for 128GB)

then in the end, purchased Intel 530 at RM369
PS: wanted to try Corsair Force series but Intel seems more "reliable"
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tbh, at present tlc ssd's has evolved to become good enough for most of us. since 840 non-pro, every release showed significant improvements compared to old ones. 840 evo is not bad actually for general use. (since the slow read bug got fixed my pair is working well)

by the way samsung magician has been upgraded to 4.5.

i have little knowledge about corsair drives. i have a very small corsair ssd (forgot the model) but i rarely used it now.





horns
post Dec 10 2014, 10:35 AM

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QUOTE(1024kbps @ Dec 10 2014, 09:59 AM)
TLC will be the future of large and cheap SSD, i read the article bout it somewhere.
also larger SSD has longer life span if the SSD controller and the OS is doing it right.

HDD capacity can increase as large as they want as i dont really care, you dont wanna lose 60TB of data at once do you? brows.gif  sweat.gif
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bingo smile.gif

i actually suspect the issues about bad ssd's are due to other factors than nand. nand is never the limiting factor in terms of endurance. (ssd has different components inside it, and nand is not the only thing that gets worn out)

QUOTE(rurushu @ Dec 10 2014, 10:13 AM)
is it my imagination, or is it that I see every time Samsung releasing a new SSD, they touted that it would be more "cost efficient", "cheaper to manufacture", "performs better with lower cost" etc etc but in reality, all I see is still their drives are still on the high side? Plus, Samsung is ocntroling all the process of manufacturing SSD, from the NAND production to the controller and firmware designs, and historically a company that can control all of the process by itself often manages to bring their products' cost lower compared to other collaborated manufacturers. But it just doesnt seem like it's the case here....  cry.gif  cry.gif

Samsung, when can your drives with those awesome performances (on paper) can also matches the prices of those of MX100 or Ultra II?

Hmm.... I think rulling out that HDD are definitely going to die is a subjective matter, I think when talk about failing rate, yes, HDD has a higher falling rate, due to the spinning plater and the magnetic arm, there are also SSDs that failed, and there are HDD that really performs well.

So in my opinion, i still being conservative regarding the reliability of HDDs compared to SSDs. Just my 2 cents  laugh.gif
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if you looked at samsung's case closely, you will find that they introduce new technology every time. with that, there will be at least 2 costs sunk into the total. one is r&d, another is manufacturing. (different processes) this will always happen when a new technology is used in production. the price will be high, until it gets stabilized with appropriate volumes in production.

controlling the whole process is an advantage mainly for technology development. lowering production costs might come later.

for now, we still have plenty of options. just wait until the technology becomes mature and harvest it at the right time. (it might be sooner than you thought biggrin.gif)

as for hdd, it's still the cheapest option for years to come. just make sure you have redundancy, including cloud-based backups.



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