Hi Everyone,

I am a importer, distributor and retailer for LED, however i only sells medium to high end LEDs for commercial and industrial use.
so i need feedback from you guys for ideas what to bring in for the residential market.

email / pm or post you question and suggestion here, i will try to improve my service to everyone.
email: >> kenny@vertsolcon.com (enquiry also)

From my experience selling LED for the last 4 years, i found out that the following rule of thumb to determine how much a person should pay on LEDs

1. Lumen/Watt (brightness/energy use = efficiency) i.e. 6 watt , 550 lumen = 91 l/m = very efficient
2. CRI (color rendering index) below 70, poor ; 70+ , ok ; 80 + good ; 90 + super expensive
3. Lifespans (25,000 ; 35,000 ; 50,000 hours)
4. Warranty (6 months, 1 year, 2 years, 3 years)
5. Brand of the chips (CREE, Bridgelux, Samsung, Epistar, Citizen, Toshiba, no brand etc)

Industry standard
1. Lumen per watt @ 3000k - downlight >85 , MR16 replacement > 40, others >65
2. CRI >80
3. Lifespan >35,000 hours
4. Warranty 1 year

Please advise me which is your priority of these


Thank you

3 years warranty

3 years warranty? I thing the china LED co. can bankrap.

365* 24 WHOLE DAY = 8760 hours 1 year
8760 * 3 years WHOLE YEAR = 26280 hours

What is the point for u to promise >35,000 hours Lifespan if you are not even confident that it will last for 26280 hours?

my concern is cheap and last long

usually when LED light spoiled, is it always the driver get spoiled first? and is the driver can be change easily?

That is normal la bro.. Just like cars, even the car lifespan will be more than 10 years, but the warranty only 3 years.

End of the day it comes to price. Normal 25w energy saver would cost about RM 15 (average), so how much would equivalent (1000lux) bulb cost? Anything more than 2x the time price, is not worth it for practical use.

Unless you have 24X7 lights with monthly bill of 3-10k; only then its worth for a replacement.

When will LED be at the same level of price as the "Ping-Pong" Bulb as of now.

From feedback I got, many still reluctant to change to LED because they feel the quality of LED sold in the market still consider terrible for the price they pay. So for downlight they still use energy saving bulb.

Hi , i don't think residential turn on 24 hours a day, that usually commercial we use that calculation.
usually 2 year warranty

yes, the chips usually have no problem, mostly driver / transformer
but the chip determine the brightness, CRI, lifespan ,etc

i see thank u for ur opinion

True, because the market importing "budget" LED lights because people reluctant to pay money to try the good quality ones,
for example YEXX brand and EVAXXX brand selling RM80 for 16watt 6" light , my brand - Aztech selling RM128, Philip about RM140
there are quality LED lights, but not a lot of people will pay for it other than commercial client

Thats not the consumer's problem right?! Its the pricing problem, when we can get energy-saving bulbs at rm10; whereas LED is RM120. Read my comments above.

Well a 25W PLCE CFL is about RM17 retail with brand, is about 1100 lumen, i don't think is lux - 44 lumen / watt
6W LED branded, RM39 bulb give you about 550 lumen - 91 lumen/watt

that calculation shows very efficient in energy saving, and normal house hold common area is about 200 lux design, which is very easy to achieve using LED, i will say energy saving is over design and waste energy. plus LED have no IR and UV ... CFL have mercury in it

PLCE lifespand 7000 hours, LED 35,000 hours
well that alone justify the money right, it last 5 times longer with 1 - 2 year warranty ?

PLCE no warranty

ermm, Energy saving buld E27 PhX brand is about RM13, AzXXX brand is about RM39 only
where you buy your LED RM120, that price is 3 year ago where most of the bulbs are that range
even Philip 7w is about RM50+ only @ ace hardware

Even the budget one is so expensive. (I will get back to you on the price around my area)

Moving on,
The Malaysian government has been promoting LED with the new policies these few years.
Do you see the price of LED will eventually lower to a more affordable/cheaper level?

This post has been edited by WisdomTrumps: Jul 4 2013, 05:11 PM

Sorry bang for the confusion; I meant lumen and not lux.

so how much is 1000 lumen LED?

Yes, actually it drops from the high - RM180 - 190 range to now about RM 130 range per set
of course the 4" drop even more, so my post is what is the consumer wants

i can import very low CRI (60), 25,000 hours, 6 months warranty , low lumen per watt
that can drop very much, almost half the price ... but will the consumer accept and i wanted to know how many % will accept

depends on size and type of LED and brand, good quality ones

4" about 90 +
6" about 130 +
spot MR16 , 90 +

but why you need 1000 lumen in residential area, usually commercial design will ask that kind of lumen
normal 600 - 800 is very good because house have low ceiling in malaysia

If you don't mind me asking.

Do you deal in East Malaysia as well?

right now my panasonic spec as in the link
http://www.panasonic.com.my/wps/portal/hom...E27HDEFD22E65HD

So whats the equivalent price? And thanks for discussion.

My hall is kinda big and my hubby said its better to have this lumen, and I do agree, since my kids are saying its easier to read.

One other problem with LED is its very sharp on eyes, if one to look at it directly.

Led have sharp glare, and can damage eye. Someone post a link here somewhere. Cfl still cheap and good.

I wonder what is the actual reading for those CFL bulb and LED bulb.

Those seller never tell the truth and just simply quote from the book. While consumer don't have a reading but just said "bright" or "not bright". But how bright is bright? The arguing is continue.........

I try to conduct a test on CFL bulb and LED bulb with different watt. Let see what is the reading.

This is the Hitachi 23w CFL bulb with 3500k and 1600lumen. The reading is around 30,900lux. The meter is about 10-20mm away from the bulb. The bulb is around 1yrs old. So not sure the brightness is still there.


When put it at the eye level, the meter reading drop dramatically to 124lux. The downlight from my eye level is about 1 meter.


Another Panasonic 18w CFL bulb with 5000k and 1000lumen. Meter read at 20,800lux.


At eye level, 133lux.


This is CREE ecosmart CR6 LED downlight rate at 10.5w and 575lumen. Come with 3year warranty. Meter read at 17,590lux.


At eye level, 135lux.


For the eye level measure, the reading lux is not really accurate. It influent from the wall and space. Bigger space and far away wall will have less lux. While those wall nearer will reflect the light and have higher lux.

My general spec is, for comfort reading is 400lux. Common looking around 250lux. While romantic mode with yellowish around 150lux.

[quote=ozak,Jul 4 2013, 09:20 PM]
I wonder what is the actual reading for those CFL bulb and LED bulb.

Those seller never tell the truth and just simply quote from the book. While consumer don't have a reading but just said "bright" or "not bright". But how bright is bright? The arguing is continue.........



Hi, good job comparing those,

ok, i think the way you measure give you inaccurate information,

first, the big manufacturer won't be wrong, especially those big company, because it need to be certified by 3rd party like TUV, ITS, etc

the way you measuring CFL including the reflector, take away the reflector, you will get very similar lumen figure from the box manufacture stated
a good reflector will boost your lumen reading by a lot, reflector can cost as cheap as 3 ringgit to 50 ringgit.

2nd, lux reading is usually base on min 1 meter away from the light source, but lux also have to calculate with a lot of factor

1. light with reflector or not, and its angle, because you can measure in diff angle and it give diff reading, some reflector gives more lux in diff location

2. your surrounding, wall color, any mirror reflector, windows, how you hold the meter, floor color , furniture , etc

3. usually we design using dialux we will calculate average base on one area, we won't take one reading, because rarely your room only have 1 bulb or downlight
usually we have minimum 4 and we calculate base on the ies file from manufacturer, now when we do that, all those above factor have to be included , then the distance you mount the light and the angle of the lights coming out of the fitting is important. of course like you say, actual and spec is very diff

4. lux also depends where you read it, we take usually for household , ceiling (light source) to waist level, not to floor, because how often you lie on the ground and read or making pastry or doing something on the floor, except for baby, then we calculate lux to the floor

lastly,

following is MRT spec for the station ; min lux (measure from light to floor)

general area, 150
ticket area , 200
platform area, 300
escalotor , 250
stairway , 175

my recommendation, well just my company opinion or my personal , everyone is diff, of course more lux better
reading - working - writing - 300 - 350 lux
assembly small item, hobby making model, 450 lux
cooking - making pastry - 300 lux
hall way 150 - 175 lux
living room general lighting 200 lux

anyway, how much you bought ur CREE LED ?

This is CREE ecosmart CR6 LED downlight rate at 10.5w and 575lumen. Come with 3year warranty. Meter read at 17,590lux.
pretty low lumen, average now 10w downlight is about 1000 lumen !

yes, we have dealers in East Malaysia, but depends which part, we have now in KK and Labuan
we can quote and mail, but i can't sell things here or i get ban from lowyat net, you can email me
my company or my dealer will quote u

yes and no, depends on the LED manufacturer include anti glare in the units, some with expensive, some don't have cheap
well UV and IR damage your eyes more brader
also mercury gas give you cancer

well, lets get a bit technical,

what is your living room size, color of wall, flooring color, any mirror of reflective material on wall, windows area
i think your case if normal reading and studying , about 350 lux should be very sufficient.

ignore the lumen, because if you have a high lumen bulb, with bad reflector, you get low lux
always as design for lux , not lumen

Both are important. You have good lux at all the area or At a focus point? A good living room light must have large area of same lux measurement. To have that you must have high lumen. "Assuming both led and cfl have same reflector"

Yes, thats why furniture layout is important, you see if you measure lux at the edge of the wall, you reading will suck , especially next to cabinet
usually we design base on the usable area, not the whole room with same lux
we can design that with addition MR16 to light up those area, but its all down to budget

well, CFL you need reflector, LED not much use of the reflector 180 degree, unless your bulb is a 270 degree bulb
then yes, with some reflector it will be useful

If using cfl can achieve the consistent lux in high area, vs using led that need additional mr16 which can damage eyes. Which one sound reasonable?

Maybe you can call me paranoid, I will only use led after someone have used it more than 10years without changing the bulbs and driver. Because with cfl I can get 10 years life span for the bulbs and ballast, and cheaper too.

well, brother, i am not arguing LED vs CFL, i wanted to know what kind of spec and money people willing to spend on LED
i don't encourage people spend money on all LED, because of budget
some like store room , wet kitchen, i still spec T5 , T8 or CFL , i do sell CFL

right now we have 3 of this panasonic CFL bulbs. each is RM10 (22w X 3)

room size is roughly 12 X 15.
ceiling height is 8 feet
room color, light blue with one side of the wall is sliding glass door (10 feet)

The Ceiling light is almost similar to this; except its with 3 lights
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50231951/

Thanks for your education information. At least we can understand something about light. With your experince, you can educate us more about how to choose a light, brightness, placing etc. But don't too techincal to understand. Some rules of thumb and general guide will help alot.

I mostly point out to those seller only tell the watt as brightness which is wrong and lead to consumer believe watt as brightness. Another is the LED lifetime which quote as standard as high as 40k hr. When the comsumer bring back the spoil led light to the shop and argue why cannot last as it claim, than blame on the driver, heat and macam macam story. Than when seller can claim with such a high lifetime but cannot give long warranty. That put us in suspicious of the product. I think you're quite familiar with such think.

I know my testing is not accurate. But try to as accurate as possible. But if I try to filter up the test, it would be a lab test already. My purpose is see what is my number lux that I can accept comfortly. So I can buy the correct bulb, reflector or placing the downlight in a correct space. Where we consumer lack of such information.

The CREE LED cost around RM120. It is for testing the reliable which I don't trust much on LED at the moment. You can read some testing here --> https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1481183/+560

This post has been edited by ozak: Jul 5 2013, 02:28 PM

if someone have a new LED measure it when is new, and after 1000 hours measure it, and 10,000 measure again. The LED can last but brightness may not.

Last time no meter. Cannot check.

Now got meter, after run for a yrs with 10hr/day read at 135lux eye level. (about 1meter from the bulb) If using conversion with bulb spec 575lumens at 1meter and 120angle, the lux is 183lux. So it lower abit or around that reading.

If you got a brand new un-used LED put it on and measure. So you now have new bulb reading and 3600 hours LED bulb reading

I always curious how the china made LED light perform. Are the light up to the spec as it claim. 1day will try it out and post here.

Are you still selling the Aztech LEDs ?
I'm going to use LED for my whole house.
Already bought about 30 Oxy 6" and looking to buy another 25 more. I don't mind exploring other brands as long as it is white frame, round and 6" and most importantly can last.
Can you let me know what stocks you have an how much for each. I can also send you my floor plan to count how many I need.
Plaster ceiling is going up in my house so I will need to decide soon on the remainder.

Hi, the theoretical the product will last as the design specification or at least the test results. but the world is not ideal, there are so many factor that causes the LED driver to fail. Well to be fair to LED, non of the CFL product last as advertise, i.e. 8,000 hours, most of them fail after 2000 - 3000 hours. if you lucky it may last until 5 or 6K. but they are much cheaper to replace , so people ignore it.

ya, for normal house hold , we just gauge using our experience or by the rule of thumb
if you guys are interested, read the following article

http://www.houzz.com/ideabooks/12520025/li...ontent=gallery9

if pretty much rule of thumb, however it is pretty tricky to apply to LED
well my product RM 128 - 138 , give about 1100 - 1200 lux depends on temperature, let me know if you need any to test

well , i am not expert, just sharing on my experience, you are pretty good having a nice lux meter to measure those, i mean we just us dialux, the actual when we measure sometimes is off ... hair ... people say light design is ART , i am really a lousy painter then ... lol ...

Hi, Yes, i also carry Phillips too
Aztech is not too bad, 2 years warranty, 16 watt about 1200 lumen, all colors 3000k, 4000k and 6500k
round and square, drop me an email kenny@vertsolcon.com, i have stocks ready, phillips no, i need to grab from them, too expensive to stock

The correct question is , which is not manufacture in China hahahah ....
most of the chips and drivers are made from there ...
well, China do make very hi-spec LED, no brand customise product, for those hotel, casino, airport, etc
they are very nice, nicer than all the brand out there, but price also very nice

so its about 3.6m x 4.5m
well probably 2 unit 11 watt 4" downlight should able to do that , about 110 lux base on 10+ ft ceiling, so i guess you should have a bout 175 if 8ft
or lower lux 1 unit 16 watt 6" Downlight

you can download aztech apps from google playstore or apple store FREE,
it can calculate how many fixture on how many lux u need

Quality stuff need to pay. Don't expect quality stuff cost peanut.

good point....sometimes its hard to get correct information from the seller because all looked almost the same in terms of its brightness when its new. But when time passed you will notice those cheap LEDs brightness will dropped significantly. I'll said 3 months. Good quality LED will maintain its brightness loss in less than 3% annually. (correct me if im wrong)

It is not theoretically the product last as the design spec. It must last as the design spec. As a designer, you should know all this possible problem happen in your r&d. And deal with it before you get your product out in the market.

What is not ideal is, it is a copy product with reduce the quality in order to sell cheap.

CFL do have quality type that can last as it claim. The current Hitachi CFL that I use can last as long as 8k hr or 2yrs. It is made in Japan. Normally I will sapu all if I can find. Specially the old packaging.

The CREE downlight I test is made in Mexico. And they are able to give 3yrs warranty. But I already modify it. void the warranty.

CIMA lights offering
Evenzo LED, model 8009, 12 W, warm white, 1 set with casing, 6" is rm75 and 4" is rm55.

anyone know the quality? and price is okay?

Get certificate or Spec report from supplier, i will always give my customer when they request
lumen degration is what a lot of owner do not take account , which me you really did you home work

Yes, even Osram LED , some made in china, some still made in europe,
the price difference is shocking, 30% more ! now as importer, i don't even consider europe because other will just sell you the exact thing made in china 30% cheaper

yup, CFL do have good quality, but now a day people don't even buy OSRAM, PANASONIC, HITACHI or PHILLIPS , all sell china and malaysia brand

And and check the spec

Power factor
Lumens
CRI
Chip
Warranty

Price is ok, YET and Evenzo is the more affordable ones, but spec wise ... up to individual

I can offer 4" RM 90 ish 11w , depend how many units u looking for full retail RM110

Power factor 0.9
Lumens 1000
CRI >82
Chip Samsung
Warranty 2 years

Even CREE have few different chips , some are more , some are less
unless you study the lab report for everyone of them

I know china chip one will loose about 8 - 10% a year , max 50% lost
Taiwan Epistar less , much better than china brand

of coz
Bridgelux, Osram, Samsung, Citizen, etc much better, coz they are the top chip makers

how about LED bulbs only not the full set one? plan buy about 30 bulbs, might be 15 CFL and 15 LED, or 30 LED...

is lumen degration cover under warranty?

AFAIK it's case by case on different brand.
Some branded manufacturer do have this kind of warranty but not those rojak brand.
And remember to ask what type of warranty they giving (1 to 1 exhange or send back for repair)

The one is economical is Aztech 6w 550 lm @ 3000k , about the RM38 each
but no stock at the moment

normal consumer, No ahahaha
project , YES

too bad

Aztech is origin from Singapore? The driver reliable? heard LED driver life span short is poor quality.

Any 6" square LED bulb 9~12w? Budget less than rm50/unit.

Aztech from Singapore, Made in China
Driver failure about 2% so far , so every 100 units 2 will come back 1 year or 2.
2 years warranty

Aztech 6" wattage 8w, 16w, 24w, 30w
i don't think budget enough, very sorry, you need to source for some lower specs

At the moment, Aztech is the lowest spec and cheapest brand i carry, others i don't deal because warranty issue

your budget can go for Evanzo , YET , CYK
i think they are within your budget.

most of the lighting shop have them.

lots of choice for that budget. But it usually won't last for more than 2 years (depend on your luck)

Agree, but YET and Evanzo going to setup factory in Malaysia, so i think they will start giving warranty for 1 year
quality wise, is a cent to a cent quality

Hi, really not technically sound on this topic.
Wll ask many stupid questions. Haha.

Can we install LEDs for our new homes? To replace down lights?
Do we need to change the wiring? Since the consumption is much lower.
The led comes in shapes, sizes, designs? Or just tiny little bulbs?

Yes, you can install LED for your new home, in come in various form, you can but normal fitting and put a LED bulb or tube, or you can use LED downlight that comes in a set.
no, you do not need to change wiring if you already have wiring for your normal light.
downlight comes in square and round. yes, there are tiny halogen replacement as well ...
let me know or other forum people can advise as well.

cheers

hi, based on your experience, does the above proposed lighting points looks ok?
10 downlight in the living area seems too much to us.
do you sell 9w square led downlight?
thanks.


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Wow 10 LED light for living room? How many switch to control the 10 LED light? and do you have L box?

My house the living room is about the same, I only have 6 CFL downlight, and I have another set of L box T5 light. T5 hardly switch on unless I need bright, like party.

yes we will be doing L box
looks super overkill to us. a slightly smaller room need only 4, but living needs 10.
btw, there wont be any cove light, the downlight will be the only lighting source.

Hi, if you planning to put 4" LED downlight, 10 nos, you getting about 500 lux , base one 10ft ceiling height, bright color wall, bright color tiles.
that is too much i think, this is brightness more than you get in bank 300 lux !!

i only sell 11w 4" downlight. about 300 lux you need probably only 6 4" 11w LED , pending on colors

300 lux is bright, i would not venture into it, i suggest about 200 lux for living, probably 4 - 5 units
2 units on the tv side and 2/3 unit on the sofa side, you will have some minor dark sport, but mehhh ... u can live with it.

thanks. do u have a shop or something that i can see your product?

you can come to our office @ ioi boulevard puchong

we have a show room at centrio bangsar south, but thats like demo unit, for architect and designer only

Hi all, has anyone here installed Tomi 4" LED downlights+dimmers from Top10?

I am facing "blinking" problem when I turn on the dimmer, and it would blink very often unless I turned the dimmer to the max. Any sifu here can advice?

3 possible way to solve this:

1. maybe your dimmer not compatible with the LED light

2. voltage drop - i am assuming you loop the LED in series, is like switch to 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 back to switch
what you should do is loop parallel , switch to 1 and back , switch to 2 and back etc or use bigger cable if you do series

3. don't loop too many units together, like 8 unit with 2 dimmer switches instead one 1

if is the driver problem, then the unit is not suitable for dimming. then don't dim ...
i think no. 2 is the most common problem, even with Aztech LED

Good to see you started this thread zealless.

Back to your original question, for me the priority is reliability. The whole light (driver + chip) should be able to last years without problem. Often people promote LED saying it has long lifespan like 50k or 100k hours, but in reality most don't last anywhere as long. Don't know if it is driver issue or chip issue.

Related to reliability is warranty. If something is tested to be reliable I think the manufacturer would give longer warranty.

After that I will look at efficiency - lumens/watt.

Then CRI. I think 70-80 is enough for general use. I don't plan for 90+ CRI unless got some specialized application.

Hahaha you are correct brother, thats why they say *"up to" 50000 hours, yes, they won't last that long , because once u reach about 35,000k, you lumen degrade is pretty high, you might want to replace to newer tech, high lumen per watt, better driver, i will say good for 4 - 5 years, although technically it could last up to 8 - 10 years

reliability, well, product have no problem on design, the way consumer use it that worries the manufacturer. thats why there are limited warranty.
you see many installer want to be quick and cheap, so they always loop in series, that is not the problem, problem is the wire size they use is the same.

i assume a lot of people understand voltage drop, the longer the wire go, the more the voltage drop, thus a bigger wire is need.
just same as pipe, if u use a small pipe, the outlet near the source, will have very good floor, but the further (horizontally) the flow will drop pretty bad
same for voltage, you need a bigger pipe. well insufficient voltage always the case that cause the LED to flicker and damage the driver. especially dimming
you see we can make the driver very reliable, like handphone factory charger, but i will cost you RM150 a driver, and no one will pay for it.

like a lot of previous sifu have commented, good not cheap, cheap always some flaws, so is like gamble
even the product i sell is not perfect, unless i am selling a 15w downlight about rm400, 150 for driver, 150 for casing and LED, then maybe i am very confident on the quality.
they are quality commercial grade LED that can last 65,000 hours, minimal degration, hi CRI , warranty 5 years ...
but normal consumer won't pay for that, not even big corporates.

thanks for your feedback, i just realise a lot of people don't really need high CRI and i think reliability is the next one

would you consider like lets say, only 25,000 hours , high efficiency 80 -100 lm/w, CRI 70+ , warranty 2 years with good driver
because this will really drop the LED price to top ten price

Question to all, will you willing to pay for high grade LED for household ?

about RM70 per MR16 with transformer ??
Spec: Bridgelux XML chip, CRI85, Lumen 650lm, 3000k, 40degree, 35000 hours, cast aluminium 58mm length heat sink, CE ROHS certified customise driver

Tx for the advice. I will demand my ID to fix it as I think they hv done wrong in relation to suggestion no2. Tx.

I have recently installed LED lights in my house, but I'm still a bit worried about the driver lifespan.

Now my another new house is ready, I'm not sure if dimmable LED is a good idea. Any sifus here can advise if it is beneficial to go ahead? Thanks.

Where the best place to get LED strip? I actually need 2 x 110cm only. Jalan Pasar?

Hi, good idea, don't dim your LED even it is dimmable
anything pass thru a dimmer, the power factor drops, even you max out dimmer, you can't get 100% brightness out of the LED
unless your LED is too bright and you have dim, then no choice.

Hi Strip you can get from anywhere, make sure they supply you brighter ones.
where you stay, i can recommend one of my dealer or my kaki shop near your place

make sure you buy a good driver, nothing less than 80 buck for less than 100w
usually driver gives you problem , strip not really

Unfortunately my dimmer is embedded into the original house. It will cost money to rip out and install another set of wiring and switches.

looks like you going to spend money anyway.

one normal switch to replace the dimmer is about RM3 , labour maybe about 20 buck
or you change the dimmer to a more efficient dimmer, estimate about RM300

so change to a normal switch still cheaper way , you don't need a set of new wiring

The wiring seems different. But thanks, I will consult my electrician and make a cost comparison.

hi, i am pretty sure is the same wiring , you just need to change from the dimmer switch to normal switch
and i am pretty sure you LED will be brighter.

Sounds good. Can save $$$. Thanks!

dear sifu, my electrician told me that in order to do the point (20 above, he would need to re-wire the connection as currently two LED lights are wired to one switch. Is it true? Tx

1. maybe your dimmer not compatible with the LED light
>>> i think you change to normal switch , cannot dim will be a easier solve
>> if 2 LED to a switch, dimmer shouldn't have any problem, so i guess is not dimmer problem


2. voltage drop - i am assuming you loop the LED in series, is like switch to 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 back to switch
what you should do is loop parallel , switch to 1 and back , switch to 2 and back etc or use bigger cable if you do series
>>> yes, you need to spend a lot, i guess you better live with it or don't dim at all

3. don't loop too many units together, like 8 unit with 2 dimmer switches instead one 1
>>> same as above

sorry, best to save money is not to dim, unless you want to spend some money there
also if dim the Power factor PF will drop, mean the brightness will drop even you max out the dimmer
depends on the dimmer and driver, it could be as much as 15% - 20%

Thx for the advice and suggestion.

Any comments abt gama led lights?it's a Singaporean brand n was told it has a transformer in d driver

driver = transformer , is converting energy from AC to DC , same function
Gama, no comment , never spec there things before

ok thanks zealles..im not very technically inclined hehhe