Hi Everyone,

I am a importer, distributor and retailer for LED, however i only sells medium to high end LEDs for commercial and industrial use.
so i need feedback from you guys for ideas what to bring in for the residential market.

email / pm or post you question and suggestion here, i will try to improve my service to everyone.
email: >> kenny@vertsolcon.com (enquiry also)

From my experience selling LED for the last 4 years, i found out that the following rule of thumb to determine how much a person should pay on LEDs

1. Lumen/Watt (brightness/energy use = efficiency) i.e. 6 watt , 550 lumen = 91 l/m = very efficient
2. CRI (color rendering index) below 70, poor ; 70+ , ok ; 80 + good ; 90 + super expensive
3. Lifespans (25,000 ; 35,000 ; 50,000 hours)
4. Warranty (6 months, 1 year, 2 years, 3 years)
5. Brand of the chips (CREE, Bridgelux, Samsung, Epistar, Citizen, Toshiba, no brand etc)

Industry standard
1. Lumen per watt @ 3000k - downlight >85 , MR16 replacement > 40, others >65
2. CRI >80
3. Lifespan >35,000 hours
4. Warranty 1 year

Please advise me which is your priority of these


Thank you

Hi , i don't think residential turn on 24 hours a day, that usually commercial we use that calculation.
usually 2 year warranty

yes, the chips usually have no problem, mostly driver / transformer
but the chip determine the brightness, CRI, lifespan ,etc

i see thank u for ur opinion

True, because the market importing "budget" LED lights because people reluctant to pay money to try the good quality ones,
for example YEXX brand and EVAXXX brand selling RM80 for 16watt 6" light , my brand - Aztech selling RM128, Philip about RM140
there are quality LED lights, but not a lot of people will pay for it other than commercial client

Well a 25W PLCE CFL is about RM17 retail with brand, is about 1100 lumen, i don't think is lux - 44 lumen / watt
6W LED branded, RM39 bulb give you about 550 lumen - 91 lumen/watt

that calculation shows very efficient in energy saving, and normal house hold common area is about 200 lux design, which is very easy to achieve using LED, i will say energy saving is over design and waste energy. plus LED have no IR and UV ... CFL have mercury in it

PLCE lifespand 7000 hours, LED 35,000 hours
well that alone justify the money right, it last 5 times longer with 1 - 2 year warranty ?

PLCE no warranty

ermm, Energy saving buld E27 PhX brand is about RM13, AzXXX brand is about RM39 only
where you buy your LED RM120, that price is 3 year ago where most of the bulbs are that range
even Philip 7w is about RM50+ only @ ace hardware

Yes, actually it drops from the high - RM180 - 190 range to now about RM 130 range per set
of course the 4" drop even more, so my post is what is the consumer wants

i can import very low CRI (60), 25,000 hours, 6 months warranty , low lumen per watt
that can drop very much, almost half the price ... but will the consumer accept and i wanted to know how many % will accept

depends on size and type of LED and brand, good quality ones

4" about 90 +
6" about 130 +
spot MR16 , 90 +

but why you need 1000 lumen in residential area, usually commercial design will ask that kind of lumen
normal 600 - 800 is very good because house have low ceiling in malaysia

[quote=ozak,Jul 4 2013, 09:20 PM]
I wonder what is the actual reading for those CFL bulb and LED bulb.

Those seller never tell the truth and just simply quote from the book. While consumer don't have a reading but just said "bright" or "not bright". But how bright is bright? The arguing is continue.........



Hi, good job comparing those,

ok, i think the way you measure give you inaccurate information,

first, the big manufacturer won't be wrong, especially those big company, because it need to be certified by 3rd party like TUV, ITS, etc

the way you measuring CFL including the reflector, take away the reflector, you will get very similar lumen figure from the box manufacture stated
a good reflector will boost your lumen reading by a lot, reflector can cost as cheap as 3 ringgit to 50 ringgit.

2nd, lux reading is usually base on min 1 meter away from the light source, but lux also have to calculate with a lot of factor

1. light with reflector or not, and its angle, because you can measure in diff angle and it give diff reading, some reflector gives more lux in diff location

2. your surrounding, wall color, any mirror reflector, windows, how you hold the meter, floor color , furniture , etc

3. usually we design using dialux we will calculate average base on one area, we won't take one reading, because rarely your room only have 1 bulb or downlight
usually we have minimum 4 and we calculate base on the ies file from manufacturer, now when we do that, all those above factor have to be included , then the distance you mount the light and the angle of the lights coming out of the fitting is important. of course like you say, actual and spec is very diff

4. lux also depends where you read it, we take usually for household , ceiling (light source) to waist level, not to floor, because how often you lie on the ground and read or making pastry or doing something on the floor, except for baby, then we calculate lux to the floor

lastly,

following is MRT spec for the station ; min lux (measure from light to floor)

general area, 150
ticket area , 200
platform area, 300
escalotor , 250
stairway , 175

my recommendation, well just my company opinion or my personal , everyone is diff, of course more lux better
reading - working - writing - 300 - 350 lux
assembly small item, hobby making model, 450 lux
cooking - making pastry - 300 lux
hall way 150 - 175 lux
living room general lighting 200 lux

anyway, how much you bought ur CREE LED ?

This is CREE ecosmart CR6 LED downlight rate at 10.5w and 575lumen. Come with 3year warranty. Meter read at 17,590lux.
pretty low lumen, average now 10w downlight is about 1000 lumen !

yes, we have dealers in East Malaysia, but depends which part, we have now in KK and Labuan
we can quote and mail, but i can't sell things here or i get ban from lowyat net, you can email me
my company or my dealer will quote u

yes and no, depends on the LED manufacturer include anti glare in the units, some with expensive, some don't have cheap
well UV and IR damage your eyes more brader
also mercury gas give you cancer

well, lets get a bit technical,

what is your living room size, color of wall, flooring color, any mirror of reflective material on wall, windows area
i think your case if normal reading and studying , about 350 lux should be very sufficient.

ignore the lumen, because if you have a high lumen bulb, with bad reflector, you get low lux
always as design for lux , not lumen

Yes, thats why furniture layout is important, you see if you measure lux at the edge of the wall, you reading will suck , especially next to cabinet
usually we design base on the usable area, not the whole room with same lux
we can design that with addition MR16 to light up those area, but its all down to budget

well, CFL you need reflector, LED not much use of the reflector 180 degree, unless your bulb is a 270 degree bulb
then yes, with some reflector it will be useful

well, brother, i am not arguing LED vs CFL, i wanted to know what kind of spec and money people willing to spend on LED
i don't encourage people spend money on all LED, because of budget
some like store room , wet kitchen, i still spec T5 , T8 or CFL , i do sell CFL

Hi, the theoretical the product will last as the design specification or at least the test results. but the world is not ideal, there are so many factor that causes the LED driver to fail. Well to be fair to LED, non of the CFL product last as advertise, i.e. 8,000 hours, most of them fail after 2000 - 3000 hours. if you lucky it may last until 5 or 6K. but they are much cheaper to replace , so people ignore it.

ya, for normal house hold , we just gauge using our experience or by the rule of thumb
if you guys are interested, read the following article

http://www.houzz.com/ideabooks/12520025/li...ontent=gallery9

if pretty much rule of thumb, however it is pretty tricky to apply to LED
well my product RM 128 - 138 , give about 1100 - 1200 lux depends on temperature, let me know if you need any to test

well , i am not expert, just sharing on my experience, you are pretty good having a nice lux meter to measure those, i mean we just us dialux, the actual when we measure sometimes is off ... hair ... people say light design is ART , i am really a lousy painter then ... lol ...

Hi, Yes, i also carry Phillips too
Aztech is not too bad, 2 years warranty, 16 watt about 1200 lumen, all colors 3000k, 4000k and 6500k
round and square, drop me an email kenny@vertsolcon.com, i have stocks ready, phillips no, i need to grab from them, too expensive to stock

The correct question is , which is not manufacture in China hahahah ....
most of the chips and drivers are made from there ...
well, China do make very hi-spec LED, no brand customise product, for those hotel, casino, airport, etc
they are very nice, nicer than all the brand out there, but price also very nice

so its about 3.6m x 4.5m
well probably 2 unit 11 watt 4" downlight should able to do that , about 110 lux base on 10+ ft ceiling, so i guess you should have a bout 175 if 8ft
or lower lux 1 unit 16 watt 6" Downlight

you can download aztech apps from google playstore or apple store FREE,
it can calculate how many fixture on how many lux u need

Get certificate or Spec report from supplier, i will always give my customer when they request
lumen degration is what a lot of owner do not take account , which me you really did you home work