If you don't mind me asking.

Do you deal in East Malaysia as well?

right now my panasonic spec as in the link
http://www.panasonic.com.my/wps/portal/hom...E27HDEFD22E65HD

So whats the equivalent price? And thanks for discussion.

My hall is kinda big and my hubby said its better to have this lumen, and I do agree, since my kids are saying its easier to read.

One other problem with LED is its very sharp on eyes, if one to look at it directly.

Led have sharp glare, and can damage eye. Someone post a link here somewhere. Cfl still cheap and good.

I wonder what is the actual reading for those CFL bulb and LED bulb.

Those seller never tell the truth and just simply quote from the book. While consumer don't have a reading but just said "bright" or "not bright". But how bright is bright? The arguing is continue.........

I try to conduct a test on CFL bulb and LED bulb with different watt. Let see what is the reading.

This is the Hitachi 23w CFL bulb with 3500k and 1600lumen. The reading is around 30,900lux. The meter is about 10-20mm away from the bulb. The bulb is around 1yrs old. So not sure the brightness is still there.


When put it at the eye level, the meter reading drop dramatically to 124lux. The downlight from my eye level is about 1 meter.


Another Panasonic 18w CFL bulb with 5000k and 1000lumen. Meter read at 20,800lux.


At eye level, 133lux.


This is CREE ecosmart CR6 LED downlight rate at 10.5w and 575lumen. Come with 3year warranty. Meter read at 17,590lux.


At eye level, 135lux.


For the eye level measure, the reading lux is not really accurate. It influent from the wall and space. Bigger space and far away wall will have less lux. While those wall nearer will reflect the light and have higher lux.

My general spec is, for comfort reading is 400lux. Common looking around 250lux. While romantic mode with yellowish around 150lux.

[quote=ozak,Jul 4 2013, 09:20 PM]
I wonder what is the actual reading for those CFL bulb and LED bulb.

Those seller never tell the truth and just simply quote from the book. While consumer don't have a reading but just said "bright" or "not bright". But how bright is bright? The arguing is continue.........



Hi, good job comparing those,

ok, i think the way you measure give you inaccurate information,

first, the big manufacturer won't be wrong, especially those big company, because it need to be certified by 3rd party like TUV, ITS, etc

the way you measuring CFL including the reflector, take away the reflector, you will get very similar lumen figure from the box manufacture stated
a good reflector will boost your lumen reading by a lot, reflector can cost as cheap as 3 ringgit to 50 ringgit.

2nd, lux reading is usually base on min 1 meter away from the light source, but lux also have to calculate with a lot of factor

1. light with reflector or not, and its angle, because you can measure in diff angle and it give diff reading, some reflector gives more lux in diff location

2. your surrounding, wall color, any mirror reflector, windows, how you hold the meter, floor color , furniture , etc

3. usually we design using dialux we will calculate average base on one area, we won't take one reading, because rarely your room only have 1 bulb or downlight
usually we have minimum 4 and we calculate base on the ies file from manufacturer, now when we do that, all those above factor have to be included , then the distance you mount the light and the angle of the lights coming out of the fitting is important. of course like you say, actual and spec is very diff

4. lux also depends where you read it, we take usually for household , ceiling (light source) to waist level, not to floor, because how often you lie on the ground and read or making pastry or doing something on the floor, except for baby, then we calculate lux to the floor

lastly,

following is MRT spec for the station ; min lux (measure from light to floor)

general area, 150
ticket area , 200
platform area, 300
escalotor , 250
stairway , 175

my recommendation, well just my company opinion or my personal , everyone is diff, of course more lux better
reading - working - writing - 300 - 350 lux
assembly small item, hobby making model, 450 lux
cooking - making pastry - 300 lux
hall way 150 - 175 lux
living room general lighting 200 lux

anyway, how much you bought ur CREE LED ?

This is CREE ecosmart CR6 LED downlight rate at 10.5w and 575lumen. Come with 3year warranty. Meter read at 17,590lux.
pretty low lumen, average now 10w downlight is about 1000 lumen !

yes, we have dealers in East Malaysia, but depends which part, we have now in KK and Labuan
we can quote and mail, but i can't sell things here or i get ban from lowyat net, you can email me
my company or my dealer will quote u

yes and no, depends on the LED manufacturer include anti glare in the units, some with expensive, some don't have cheap
well UV and IR damage your eyes more brader
also mercury gas give you cancer

well, lets get a bit technical,

what is your living room size, color of wall, flooring color, any mirror of reflective material on wall, windows area
i think your case if normal reading and studying , about 350 lux should be very sufficient.

ignore the lumen, because if you have a high lumen bulb, with bad reflector, you get low lux
always as design for lux , not lumen

Both are important. You have good lux at all the area or At a focus point? A good living room light must have large area of same lux measurement. To have that you must have high lumen. "Assuming both led and cfl have same reflector"

Yes, thats why furniture layout is important, you see if you measure lux at the edge of the wall, you reading will suck , especially next to cabinet
usually we design base on the usable area, not the whole room with same lux
we can design that with addition MR16 to light up those area, but its all down to budget

well, CFL you need reflector, LED not much use of the reflector 180 degree, unless your bulb is a 270 degree bulb
then yes, with some reflector it will be useful

If using cfl can achieve the consistent lux in high area, vs using led that need additional mr16 which can damage eyes. Which one sound reasonable?

Maybe you can call me paranoid, I will only use led after someone have used it more than 10years without changing the bulbs and driver. Because with cfl I can get 10 years life span for the bulbs and ballast, and cheaper too.

well, brother, i am not arguing LED vs CFL, i wanted to know what kind of spec and money people willing to spend on LED
i don't encourage people spend money on all LED, because of budget
some like store room , wet kitchen, i still spec T5 , T8 or CFL , i do sell CFL

right now we have 3 of this panasonic CFL bulbs. each is RM10 (22w X 3)

room size is roughly 12 X 15.
ceiling height is 8 feet
room color, light blue with one side of the wall is sliding glass door (10 feet)

The Ceiling light is almost similar to this; except its with 3 lights
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50231951/

Thanks for your education information. At least we can understand something about light. With your experince, you can educate us more about how to choose a light, brightness, placing etc. But don't too techincal to understand. Some rules of thumb and general guide will help alot.

I mostly point out to those seller only tell the watt as brightness which is wrong and lead to consumer believe watt as brightness. Another is the LED lifetime which quote as standard as high as 40k hr. When the comsumer bring back the spoil led light to the shop and argue why cannot last as it claim, than blame on the driver, heat and macam macam story. Than when seller can claim with such a high lifetime but cannot give long warranty. That put us in suspicious of the product. I think you're quite familiar with such think.

I know my testing is not accurate. But try to as accurate as possible. But if I try to filter up the test, it would be a lab test already. My purpose is see what is my number lux that I can accept comfortly. So I can buy the correct bulb, reflector or placing the downlight in a correct space. Where we consumer lack of such information.

The CREE LED cost around RM120. It is for testing the reliable which I don't trust much on LED at the moment. You can read some testing here --> https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1481183/+560

This post has been edited by ozak: Jul 5 2013, 02:28 PM

if someone have a new LED measure it when is new, and after 1000 hours measure it, and 10,000 measure again. The LED can last but brightness may not.

Last time no meter. Cannot check.

Now got meter, after run for a yrs with 10hr/day read at 135lux eye level. (about 1meter from the bulb) If using conversion with bulb spec 575lumens at 1meter and 120angle, the lux is 183lux. So it lower abit or around that reading.

If you got a brand new un-used LED put it on and measure. So you now have new bulb reading and 3600 hours LED bulb reading

I always curious how the china made LED light perform. Are the light up to the spec as it claim. 1day will try it out and post here.

Are you still selling the Aztech LEDs ?
I'm going to use LED for my whole house.
Already bought about 30 Oxy 6" and looking to buy another 25 more. I don't mind exploring other brands as long as it is white frame, round and 6" and most importantly can last.
Can you let me know what stocks you have an how much for each. I can also send you my floor plan to count how many I need.
Plaster ceiling is going up in my house so I will need to decide soon on the remainder.

Hi, the theoretical the product will last as the design specification or at least the test results. but the world is not ideal, there are so many factor that causes the LED driver to fail. Well to be fair to LED, non of the CFL product last as advertise, i.e. 8,000 hours, most of them fail after 2000 - 3000 hours. if you lucky it may last until 5 or 6K. but they are much cheaper to replace , so people ignore it.

ya, for normal house hold , we just gauge using our experience or by the rule of thumb
if you guys are interested, read the following article

http://www.houzz.com/ideabooks/12520025/li...ontent=gallery9

if pretty much rule of thumb, however it is pretty tricky to apply to LED
well my product RM 128 - 138 , give about 1100 - 1200 lux depends on temperature, let me know if you need any to test

well , i am not expert, just sharing on my experience, you are pretty good having a nice lux meter to measure those, i mean we just us dialux, the actual when we measure sometimes is off ... hair ... people say light design is ART , i am really a lousy painter then ... lol ...