FINAL CASE SEEN IN JOHN

FRUSTRATION OF HUMAN OPINIONS PT 3

We must see one point here. The point is that the Lord was able to raise up Lazarus from death. However, He could not do anything because He was continually frustrated by human opinions. He was frustrated by those opinions until the time came when they were subdued. Eventually, Martha was subdued with a certain amount of submission. The Lord has the resurrection life, the resurrection power, but it needs our cooperation. It needs our submission. What is our submission? It is simply the giving up of our opinion. You must forsake your opinion and allow the Lord to speak. When He tells us, “Move this stone,” we should simply move it. We must submit, cooperate, and coordinate with Him. We need to submit to His word, cooperate with Him, and coordinate with the resurrection power. Why did the Lord, who was able to raise the dead, not remove the stone by Himself? Because His resurrection power requires our cooperation. Once they had removed the stone, the Lord cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!” (11:41-43), and Lazarus was raised from the dead. He heard the voice of the living Lord, was quickened, and was raised from the dead. After Lazarus came out of the tomb, there was still the need for human cooperation. Lazarus’s hands and feet were bound with the burial clothes and his face was bound about with a handkerchief. Therefore Jesus said to them, “Loose him and let him go” (11:44). They had to remove the bandages from the resurrected Lazarus. They did it and the work of resurrection was completed.

We too must work by cooperating with the Lord to release others from the bondage of their bandages. When the Lord raises up people from their death in the church, we need to cooperate with Him in order to release them from their earthly bondage. By this kind of cooperation the church becomes the testimony of the Lord as life. The Lord could have moved the stone from the cave and He could have removed the bandages from Lazarus, but He did not do it. He would rather ask us to cooperate with Him. However, before we can cooperate with Him, we must first give up our opinions and act according to His will. In the church life, we must drop our opinions, submit to the Lord’s word and work, and cooperate with His resurrection power.

This is a serious lesson that everyone in the local churches must learn. Especially the Marthas and the Marys-the leading ones, the responsible ones-must learn to drop their opinions, submit themselves and their opinions to the Lord, and cooperate with Him and with His resurrection power. If in any local church the leaders drop their opinions, submitting them to the Lord’s word, and cooperate with the Lord’s resurrection power, that church will see resurrection life. This is a part of the major revelation of this chapter which is the submission of human opinions and the cooperation of the lovers of the Lord with His resurrection power. The Lord today is still waiting for an opportunity to express His resurrection power, but it is difficult for Him to obtain the submission, cooperation, and coordination.

We have to drop our opinions, submit every opinion for His consideration, and cooperate with Him. When He asks you to remove the stone, remove it. When He tells you to do a certain thing, do it. Then you will see resurrection life. You will see resurrection power. This is a part of the revelation of John 11. Most people have seen only the story of Lazarus being raised up from the dead. They have not seen the revelation in this chapter, which is that outside of religion, in the local churches, the frustration to Christ as life comes from our human opinions.

FINAL CASE SEEN IN JOHN

FRUSTRATION OF HUMAN OPINIONS PT 4

These nine cases are very meaningful because they show that the Lord as life starts with regeneration and ends with resurrection. All of these cases are signs signifying that the Lord comes to us as life in several different aspects. The experience of the Lord as our life begins with regeneration and reaches the climax with resurrection.

The Lord Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life" (11:25). Resurrection is superior to life. By itself, life can only have existence, but resurrection can withstand any kind of attack, even the attack of death. The Lord is not only life, but He is also resurrection. Death cannot hold Him because He can conquer death. Death cannot retain Him, because He is not only life-He is also resurrection. Life is the power to exist, but resurrection is the power to conquer everything that is against life. Therefore, because resurrection can defeat every attack against life, it is superior to life.

According to the Scriptures, death is a great power. When death comes upon a man, he cannot escape it. Not even atomic power can overcome death. Only the Lord Himself as resurrection can defeat death. He can deliver all of the dead persons from death because He is not only life but also resurrection. Since He is the resurrection, He can break the power of death. Even Hades is unable to confine our Lord to the tomb.

We must learn how to apply this resurrection life day by day. We must not only live by the Lord as life, but we must also conquer by the Lord as resurrection. Many times our circumstances affect us like death. But praise the Lord that all matters which contain the touch of death are a test because these matters prove whether or not the Lord is the resurrection. Nothing can confine us, for we have the Lord as our resurrection life. Regardless of the pressure or trouble we are bearing, we can stand it because we have resurrection life. According to 11:25, the Lord did not say that we will not die, but that we will prove to the whole universe that the Lord in whom we believe is the resurrection! Satan will try his best to put us permanently into death. One day, though we all may die, we will all be resurrected. Throughout the whole universe this will be the greatest victory, the victory that will testify that the Lord is the resurrection. However, even in our daily life we may have the foretaste of the ultimate victory of that resurrection. This is why the Apostle Paul said, “To know Him and the power of His resurrection” (Phil. 3:10).

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Dear my Christian friends, I am curious to know, Abraham and Sarai was born thousands/hundreds years before Jesus. To your believe, to who was he worshiped to as the trinity concept definitely did not exist by that time?

Well friend, I assume that you are a Christian(?), if not, this may be a bit solid.

Nearly all the seeds of the truths are sown in the book of Genesis. The trinity is be already seen in the first two verses of Genesis. But since you brought up Abraham, it is the most solid type of the experiences of the Trinity revealed in Genesis.

The term, "God of Abraham" shows God contacted, appeared to, and spoke to, and deal with Abraham. In His dealings with Abraham, God unveiled what kind of God He is. It was in so many dealings of God with Abraham that the details of what God the Father is were unveiled. As the Father, He is the God of glory, God of blessing, God of secret care for His elect, the God of all-sufficiency, God with His human friendship etc seen in Abraham's experiences of God.

God's work on Isaac made him a type of Christ as the son of Abraham. Matthew 1:1 says that Christ is the son of David and the son of Abraham. God promised Abraham that the whole earth would be blessed in his seed. Then Paul said in Galatians 3 that this seed of Abraham, not many seeds, is Christ (v. 16). Therefore, Isaac was a person who is a type of Christ as the son of Abraham, the one who inherits the promise and blessing God gave to Abraham (Gen. 22:17-18; Gal. 3:16, 14).

We see this in Christ:
1) As the only begotten Son of the Father—John 1:14b; 3:16a. [Isaac is Abraham's only son]
2) Given by the Father all that the Father has—Gen. 25:5; John 3:35; 13:3. [Isaac basically enjoyed all the Abraham's riches]
3) Offered to God for God's satisfaction and resurrected from the dead—Gen. 22:2-13. [Isaac was offered up]
4) Gaining the Gentile church as His counterpart through the Holy Spirit—ch. 24. [Isaac marrying Rebekah with Eliezier (a type of the Spirit)]

God's work on Jacob shows the experience of God the Spirit-how God disciplined him, dealt with his natural life, and weakened him, how God caused Christ to be formed in him through the constitution of the Holy Spirit, and how he bore the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

What is the discipline of the Holy Spirit, and what is the constitution of the Holy Spirit? The discipline and constitution of the Holy Spirit are one work; they are not two separate works. We are constituted by the discipline of the Holy Spirit. We are molded by the carving work of the Holy Spirit. When our natural life is being dealt with, the nature of Christ is being constituted into us. While Jacob was being dealt with by God, he began to bear the fruit of peace. In the midst of discipline, the fruit of peace is borne. The fruit of peace does not come after the disciplining work. While God was touching his natural life, the fruit of peace was borne. This is the principle by which God manifested Himself through Jacob. On the one hand, we have to observe the way that God carved him and weakened him. On the other hand, we have to observe the way that God wrought the nature of Christ into him through the Holy Spirit. This work makes Christ's nature his nature.

The history of God's leading in the life of Jacob can be divided into four sections. The first section describes Jacob's nature (Gen. 25—27). It began with his birth and lasted until the time he received his father's blessing by cheating. This section tells us the kind of person Jacob was. The second section describes the discipline Jacob experienced (Gen. 28—30). It began from the time he left his home and lasted until Padan-aram. During this period, he suffered trials and discipline. The third section describes the dismantling of the natural life of Jacob (Gen. 31—35). It began from the time he left his father's-in-law house in Padan-aram, journeying through Peniel, Shechem, and Bethel, until he arrived in Hebron. During this period, Jacob's natural life was being touched by God. The fourth section describes Jacob's maturity (Gen. 37—49), that is, the period of his old age. It began from the time Joseph was sold to the time Jacob died.

So, I will end this with this verse, when God answered Moses ....

In Exodus 3:15 (2nd book in the Bible), "And God also said to Moses, Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial from generation to generation.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Mar 5 2014, 08:22 AM

Friend, I am not Christian, I just curious.
Holy Spirit and God is not the same?

They are equivalent.


God is Spirit (John 4:24). This speaks of the nature of God. As far as the divine essence is concerned, God, the complete Triune God, is Spirit.

Hmm ... not to go too deep.

The Spirit is God's reaching man, God’s abiding among man and in man, and God's indwelling man.

Without God as the Spirit, we cannot experience God.

God is one yet He is triune for our experience and enjoyment. Otherwise, He is just the unique God far away up in the heavens ... nothing to do with us

Trinity concept:
1. Holy Spirit
2. God
3. Son of God, i.e Jesus

Since Holy Spirit = God, and God = Holy Spirit, means there are only 2 Gods in Christian i.e Jesus and God / Holy Spirit. Means, trinity concept is not trinity anymore.

Am I correct?

Incorrect. The trinity still exists, but it's hard for us to conceptualize because there is nothing in this world that is similar.

The closest approximation would be that of Ice, Water, and Vapour. All three are water, but just in different forms. Note that this is an approximation, and merely a gateway to help you understand, but not a complete metaphor.

God is the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is Jesus, and Jesus is God, and all three are one and the same, but different.

Wow ... you just show something mysterious about the Trinity. The fact that Holy Spirit = God, and God = Holy Spirit shows the high matter of coinherence.

The Father is in the Son and in the Spirit; the Son is in the Father and in the Spirit; and the Spirit is in the Father and in the Son. They are three, yet They are mingled together as one. This is coinherence. The Three of the Godhead not only coexist but also coinhere. Coinherence is a mutual indwelling or a mingling.

Your latter statement, "...means there are only 2 Gods in Christian i.e Jesus and God / Holy Spirit. Means, trinity concept is not trinity anymore." shows that you might not understand what the term "Trinity" means ...

I have a scriptural question

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Is this an indication of salvation proved by works? Or there's another context?

Might wanna take a look at Hebrew 6:1-3

It talks about repentance from dead works. The thing is that what we did in the past does not mean we will get into heaven (going to heaven is strictly a grace thing, you get it as long as you confess that Christ is Lord) but it speaks more to the blessing in life and in the eternal life where our lot AFTER the rapture is.

Lol .... this is one of the "hammer" used by Arminisiam against Calvinism. Again, it is a matter of the two-foldness of the truth.

Do take the time to read this post: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f...post&p=41638260

The above post will clarify the matter of salvation and reward. That will the key to understand all the verses related to salvation and verses that seem to infer "losing the salvation" / "salvation by works".

But to answer your question on the verses ... actually that section did not refers to believers but to the nations (v. 32).

The nations refers to all the Gentiles who remain at Christ's coming back to the earth, after He has destroyed those Gentiles who follow Antichrist at Armageddon (Rev. 16:14, 16; 19:11-15, 19-21). These remaining Gentiles will all be gathered and judged at Christ's throne of glory. This will be Christ's judgment of the living before the millennium (Acts 10:42; 2 Tim. 4:1). It differs from His judgment of the dead at the great white throne after the millennium (Rev. 20:11-15) and will be executed on the earth after His judgment of the believers at His judgment seat in the air (vv. 19-30).

After the judgment at Christ's throne of glory, the "sheep" will be transferred into the millennium to be the people living under the kingly ruling of Christ and the overcoming believers (Rev. 2:26-27; 12:5; 20:4-6) and under the priestly ministry of the saved Jews (Zech. 8:20-23). In this way the "sheep" will inherit the (coming) kingdom. In the millennium there will be three sections: (1) the earth, where the blessing of God's creation will be, as mentioned in Gen. 1:28-30; (2) the nation of Israel in Canaan, from the Nile to the Euphrates, from which the saved Jews will rule over the whole earth (Isa. 60:10-12; Zech. 14:16-18); and (3) the heavenly and spiritual section (1 Cor. 15:50-52), the manifestation of the kingdom of the heavens, where the overcoming believers will enjoy the kingdom reward (5:20; 7:21). The kingdom that the "sheep" will inherit consists of the first section.

God deals with the unbelievers according to the law and with the believers according to the gospel of Christ during the age of grace. But at the end of this age, the three and a half years of the great tribulation, God will send an angel to preach a specific gospel, the eternal gospel. This is a dispensational matter. Then, after Christ has judged the believers at the judgment seat in the air, He will come with the overcomers to destroy the armies of Antichrist, save the remnant of the Jews, and set up His throne of glory in Jerusalem. Then all the living Gentiles will be gathered before Him to be judged. By the judgment seat in the air, He will clear up the situation among the believers. By descending to the Mount of Olives He will clear up the situation among the Jews. Finally, at His throne of glory He will clear up the situation among the nations. He will judge them not according to the law or according to the gospel of grace, but according to the eternal gospel, according to how they have treated His little brothers during the great tribulation.


P.S. This is not a major truth for contention ... ...so I won't fight for it if you don't agree.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Mar 5 2014, 09:15 PM

Very true, been experiencing it every time. Witness it happen to other believers every time.

God is Faithful.

There's no doubt about it.

So Sophiera, Do you understand what Pehkay explained?



ps: Thank Pehkay, great revelation there.

Sorry, I am kinda of confuse
I understand from your explaination Holy Spirit is another God besides God and Jesus. Who is the Father?
I did not mean to provoke anyone here, just for myself clarification, but when Christian wants to use Allah, which God is referring to Allah?

Allah is a noun.

Noun but Allah is a Proper Noun, not common noun.

Nope I didn't say that.

When Christian uses Allah, it is a generic term for God. It is not WHICH GOD are we referring to.

BUT when we refers to God, it is the Triune God (singular) that we are referring to. According to the Bible, God is uniquely one (Deut. 6:4; 1 Cor. 8:6), yet He is also the Father, the Son, and the Spirit (Matt. 28:19b). This is difficult for the human mind to reconcile or explain, but this is the revelation in the Bible.

The Father, the Son, and the Spirit coexist with one another (Matt. 3:16-17; Eph. 3:14-17), and They also coinhere. To coexist means to exist together at the same time. To understand the coexistence of the three of the Divine Trinity is not difficult, but to understand how the three of the Divine Trinity coinhere is very difficult. To coinhere means that the three of the Divine Trinity exist within one another, abide in each other (John 14:10-11; 17:21). The three of the Divine Trinity from eternity past have been and still are coexisting and coinhering with one another.


The three of the Divine Trinity are distinctly three and yet one. The Father is distinct from the Son, the Son is distinct from the Spirit, and the Spirit is distinct from the Father and the Son.

Yet the Son is the Father (Isa. 9:6; John 14:9-10), and the Son is also the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17). The Son became flesh (John 1:1, 14) and was called the last Adam. This last Adam through death and resurrection became a life-giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45b). The son given was called the Eternal Father, and after His death and resurrection He became the life-giving Spirit. Therefore, the Son is both the Father and the Spirit.

HAHA ...

You have to study first what the word Trinity means and its implication

This post has been edited by pehkay: Mar 6 2014, 12:00 PM

It's a common noun.

Back in the days prior to Islam, before Mohammamed was even born, the Arabs already using the word allah to refer to a divine deity.