1st thing 1st... the 0cd dogs leave the globes... if the owner took the globes, our Gruesome Feast will stack???

coz i no use gruesome feast ytd... if the globes can give us 10% INT and MANA, then got chance wor...

This i'm not sure since i have not encountered 2 party members using suicide dogs.

I just bought a skorn and an amulet.
Going to replace the helm and a ring too.

Personally i hvnt tried 0cd dogs build .. i've only tried reduced cd zdog (giyua + homunculus + grasp + tribal rites passive) .. few things i noticed:
1) using reduced cd zdog gear will result it lower dps (homunculus vs ukh, giyua vs vision/mempo, grasp vs rare/hf rings)
2) sacrifice dmg will be also much lower as a result
3) in PvE (non ubers) time taken for zdog to "hug" intended target cant be outright controlled (as opposed to aiming using other spell) ... the fastest way i found to get zdog close to intended target is to cast a bit far from mobs (avoiding zdog to engage non intended targets) then SW as close as u can to intended target so ur zdog will "teleported" next to it (u need to be at quite a distant for the zdogs to be tele)
4) pros: huge health replenish/healing (24k) .. free health globes for party members

The way i see it 0cd build is useful/easier to use n target in ubers (benefit party as a whole i,e health globes) .. MAYBE will be imba in PvP

Gears for 0cd:
- Homunculus: max 20 sec cd
- Visage of Giyua: max 9 sec cd
- Mara's Kaleidoscope: max 8 sec cd
- Skull Grasp: max 7 sec cd
- Stone of Jordan: max 8 sec cd
Tribal Rites passive will give 11.25 sec cd

Base cd for summon zdog is 45 sec however bear in mind that it takes 2 casts & animation frames for those are roughly: sacrifice+explosion (4th dog exploded) = 1,12 seconds (figures taken from a wd player findings in another forum). Also u hv to take into account the travel time taken for the zdog to engage/hug intended target.
If u take into account 1 sec casting and Jaunt (3 sec) ... getting 4/5cd is sufficient to constantly use zdog/sac. Basically after using tribal rites, u need another 30 sec cd from other gears.
The highest dps obtainable is if u dont use Homunculus but 20 sec cd is pretty huge. Giyua is pretty decent to use since it gives AR + high intel + mana regen, So is Mara since it has fixed main stat + AR + 3 random rolls (can get trifecta if u r rich lolz) .. SoJ also wont compromise your real dps too much.
Easiest combo is Homunculus + Giyua but it will compromise your total dps. Imho best combo would be Giyua + Mara + SoJ + Grasp

Skill setup:
Must hv active skill would be summon zdog/final gift & sacrifice/for the master. For passive skill, Tribal Rites & Zombie Handler.
Other useful skills, perhaps Grasp of the Dead/Unbreakable Grasp (to keep target in place) .. Wall of Zombies/Unrelenting Grip could also be useful to slow down enemy & stop enemy from getting close to u while making it easier for zdog to hug target.

Anyways .. current price of reduce zdog cd is ridiculously high which makes it a huge investment to even consider (for me at least). For those who want to give it a try can spend a reasonable budget by getting Homunculus & Giyua (2 of the cheapest reduce zdog cd gears) b4 depleting your bank balance on mara/soj.

This post has been edited by Gecko: Jan 9 2013, 08:03 PM

The Mara and SoJ pages are so long....it's like finding a needle in a haystack as you need to hover on EACH item.

Other than Giyua, you can have rare helm for the 9 sec cd. I think I picked up one but the other stats are rubbish though.

Sample: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Bata-2162/hero/810700

Pretty high paper DPS of 166K

Paper DPS is the key word here
That setup have lots of ias gears: 9%(gloves) + 9%(TWH) + 9%(Tal's Chest) + 9%(Lacuni)
Those ias gears are the main reason for the high paper dps BUT ask yourself this .. does Sacrifice benefit from ias? afaik low mana primary attacks like Splinters & Ghost Bomb do benefit from ias .. i dont see how ias can increase Sac damage tho.
Stacking avg dmg is the way to go if u r using Sacrifice to obtain the most real dps.

I think stacking up the IAS is for the fast attack for the zombie dogs.
For suicide dog build, without IAS, the paper DPS is about 80-100K.
Mainly due to the use of mojo and voodoo mask.

I have almost completed my bears build. I can spam bears now and have my EHP increased by 130K (d3up).
I need to get a Zuni mojo (with zombie charge resource cost reduction).
Bought a skorn and don't really like it. Killed many times due to the slow attack speed.
I switch back to EF+mojo combo. Work very well so far.

P/S I give up the suicide dog build due to the cost is way way too high. It can cost billions of gold.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Jan 10 2013, 09:33 AM

for my experience, avg dmg very very important for Suicide Dogs dmg...

i did not have 0cd suicide dogs but i did test the dmg delivered by the dogs...

no matter how fast my attack speed, the dmg still low...

once i changed gear from IAS to XX-XX, my paper dps drop yes, but my dogs really can kill big white mobs...

tht's my experience...

tht's different story from bears build...

bears players will have 1 primary and 1 bears...

tht's why IAS is very important for Widow or GB or PD...

my non lyn fren, he got very high attack speed, i think 2.x, widow + bears...

the widow heal him very fast due to he throw 2 jars of widow in 1 second...

tht's how he tank, he only got Jousting Mail (4xx LOH) and Manajuma Knife (3% LS)...

But mana runs out fast if you have high IAS.

I found I can't do well in MP9/10 if I remove the passive, jungle fortitude.
Do you guys encounter the same?

there is a way to almost unlimited mana regen...

Passive: Vision Quest, Rush of Essence

Skill: Haunt/Draining Spirit, Spirit Barricade/The Spirit is Willing, Corpse Spider or Fire Bomb <--- for VQ trigger

the rest u can matching urself... like Spirit Walk/Honored Guest

^ these i copy from China player, how they unlimited mana to spam bears...


yes i also got this issue, jungle fortitude is need if u don have high armor... i see people drop it and use Horrify/Frightening Aspect...

This post has been edited by HenryLow: Jan 10 2013, 10:15 AM

oh ya almost forgot this... maybe useful for 4 wd mp10 uber:

u guys wan to hired Nood DH..

idk about other players experience using Skorn & Bears as main dmg dealer on high mp but in my case .. the most important thing is to ensure u always hv mana to keep spamming bears ... as long as u hv mana u will hv steady stream of bears delivering high dmg (more so for crits) .. during Ubers even on mp10 i dont go OOM as long as i manage my mana well i.e always keep VQ up (just throw 1 widowmaker then back to spamming bears), when mana @ health dip below 25% i will pop SW/HG to hv 2 sec of invulnerability + mana regen. Minimum of 40% CC is required to ensure u crit most of the time .. its those crit dmg that replenish your health pool fast. Stacking ias to get faster attack using bears is not recommended as u will run out of mana faster. My build gets mana regen just from Zuni full set, VQ passive, a lil bit from widowmaker hit & Blood Ritual passive (to reduce mana cost of bears) .. i prolly shud try get a SoJ with bears reduce cost to make it more efficient.
However if u use 1h+mojo it will be more practical stacking ias as base 1h wpn speed is alrdy fast so u prolly do dmg at a faster rate using widowmaker & bears whenever u hv mana. For 2h user like me, widowmaker is just to keep VQ up (i dont even depend on mana return from widowmaker hits or its dmg) .. keeping a constant stream of bears provide the best dmg output imho.
Anyways i like to point out that to be able to stand in middle of fight (while spamming bears) and take some hits without dying too fast, its best to stack physical resist & some melee reduction% .. elemental dmg such as mortars, arcane sentry, molten etc u need to do some kiting and use SW to get out of tight position.
To answer Aleune's question .. i stopped using JF passive ever since i switch to 2h (used it back when i use EF + ToTD) .. for ubers n high mp key runs i use VQ, BR & SV .. low mp speed farming i switch to VQ, GF, GI.

@Henry
I've used the freeze build in Ubers b4 and i think it will work on mp6 n below ... for mp7 and above ur dps is too low (due to using Azurewrath) to do any real dmg & u will be doing freeze with vry low dmg output. However the freeze build make u almost "untouchable" lolz

My thoughts regarding 4 WD doing mp10 ubers:
- all 4 WD must be able to do burst dmg using Bears
- since no barb @ monk to tank .. all WD use garg/bruiser bcos i think 4 garg doing stun will be the best tanker .. restless giant will give more dmg but the cooldown is too long.
- 3 WD use slamdance (1 min of dps boost total with 1 min cooldown) & another WD use Hex/Jinx to keep Kulle preoccupied ... instead of killing Kulle 1st .. its best to kill SB 1st since hard to stay within slamdance AoE to be used on Kulle (he moves n teleports). 1h+mojo users might want to try use SB/Pheb to dps SB (to counter against SB's RD)

This post has been edited by Gecko: Jan 10 2013, 01:27 PM

I think it's not so easy to take down SB because the damage reflection is pretty high, especially if you want to spam bears.
Besides, SB doesn't give you one-blow during enrage timer.
IMO, better kill ZK first.

I'm looking forward to another MP10 uber party.

i think we really need 1 wd to do freeze...

The most important thing is, freeze or not, we need to tapau uber bosses before the enrage timer.
This is what we failed to do in the last game.

Tht is bcoz we keep running around, we cant even focus attack...

very interesting built for WD MP 10 from this guy built http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/TurkNuk...82/hero/1166024

unlimited zombie dogs spam + scoundriel which has high percentages to freeze

somewhat CM wiz-ish type

hi guys, what do you fellow WDs feel about increased attack speed? does it just increase paper dps? does it increase my minion attackspeeed?

im actually running a build whereby my "hounds of hell" are used as mini-tanks + minor dps.
not really a fan of the 0 zombie dog build as i find it frustrating when the dogs dont group up correctly or find their own mobs, so when i sacrifice, the damage isnt really 1000% as calculated on paper

Heres my profile, any sifus here also can suggest what to upgrade next would be greately appreciated
Mightymouse#2640

happy hunting

This post has been edited by MightySmiter: Jan 11 2013, 10:14 AM

WD is bound by the skill that deliver burst damage, you go either bears or suicide dogs.
Others are not going to work (in high MP, i.e. MP10).

So, bears... you don't need IAS at all.
Dogs, you can stack IAS since it doesn't have high consumption of mana.

If most of the time u use Ghost Bomb to deal dmg & only on ocassion use Bears for elite pack .. there's no harm to stack more ias on your gears .. GB will benefit from more ias but using bears with high ias will drain your mana super fast .. so imho available gear upgrades for u wont be cheap hehe
Try to get full zuni set .. +20 mana regen from full set bonus will help u spam more bears .. zuni vision will give lots of health & bigger mana pool .. pox will give u AR + CHD
The upgrades i would recommend to get most ias & still maintain zuni full set:
- Get Tal's chest with either high vit roll @ AR roll (quite expensive for AR roll) .. u gain more ias & elemental dmg bonus from 2 Tal set
- Zuni Vision with CC, Zuni Pox with CC @ IAS (trifecta will cost a bomb), Zuni Skull with CC + reduced Bears skill
- Lacuni with CC to get ias & 24% MS
- u might also change Jousting Mail to a high armor rare pants with 1xx intel, 2xx vit, 7x AR, 2 sock .. since u r not using RoT @ Acid Rain, LoH from Jousting Mail wont benefit u much.

This post has been edited by Gecko: Jan 11 2013, 11:52 PM