Here's the formula.

Basics:
My sword 1041.2 dps comes frm [(576-912) /2] * 1.4

Let's put 2 examples :
1. 500-900 avg dmg wand 1.4 aspd (700*1.4=980dps)
2. 633-1000 avg dmg spear 1.2 aspd (816*1.2=980 dps)

Now add a source 100-400 avg dmg to both..

Case 1. 500+100 - 900+400 which is [(600+1300)/2]*1.4=1330dps
Case 2. [(733+1400)/2]/2*1.2=1279dps

ThT is before adding other dmg frm accessories.

So u can see thT case 1 gets higher overall dps due to the higher aspd. The element bonus dmg is a multiplicative formula applied to the main weap before other avg dmg kicks in. Let's use case 1 using a trium with 18% element:

500-900 wand. It will be (500*1.18 + 900*1.18)/2 *1.4 = .........

So in conclusion, of u see 2 similar dps items, go for the one with higher atk per sec. It will boost yur overall dps after counting elemental dmg n other eq avg dmg and aspd.

Hope thT helps

This post has been edited by Davy123: May 2 2013, 03:08 PM

I see. Yeah, if there's another CM wizard, venom hydra is the shiznit then.

Hmm let me see, unless you can substitute your trivumrate which boost APoC, then you switch your stormcrow to mempo with CC which adds more DPS boost and EHP (assuming you put amethyst inside the socket)?

For the DS slot, not much can be said because i could also switch it to teleport. I guess that slot varies depending on your gameplay style. Even switching it to frost nova is also okay, i guess.

I have an APoC triumvirate and I don't think is a good idea to run it with memPo.

My reasoning is 8% elemental damage is BETTER than 9% AS. Sure the paper DPS might be higher with the samurai helm but stacking elemental damage and average damage is the key to such builds IMO.

I tried:

1. MemPo + APoC Trium
2. Storm Crow + Trium

I think second combination better.

i see i see. how about storm crow + ApoC trium? Maybe the 2nd slot is applicable for the likes of blizzard or.........meteor? lol

but yeah, you may sacrifice the vit.

don't think it will work because i think disintegrate have horrible proc rates. Have not tested yet but meteor + disintegrate doesn't really sync I think. And btw, I need 30 APoC in CM mode to spam meteor non stop so I don't think this weird build with 20 is gonna cut it.

I don't like Blizzard, I think is weak but right now I think black ice might be a good sync.

Actually metalfreak's sleet storm build is stronger but problem is melee range. Things get nasty

Here's the formula.

Basics:
My sword 1041.2 dps comes frm [(576-912) /2] * 1.4

Let's put 2 examples :
1. 500-900 avg dmg wand 1.4 aspd (700*1.4=980dps)
2. 633-1000 avg dmg spear 1.2 aspd (816*1.2=980 dps)

Now add a source 100-400 avg dmg to both..

Case 1. 500+100 - 900+400 which is [(600+1300)/2]*1.4=1330dps
Case 2. [(733+1400)/2]/2*1.2=1279dps

ThT is before adding other dmg frm accessories.

So u can see thT case 1 gets higher overall dps due to the higher aspd. The element bonus dmg is a multiplicative formula applied to the main weap before other avg dmg kicks in. Let's use case 1 using a trium with 18% element:

500-900 wand. It will be (500*1.18 + 900*1.18)/2 *1.4 = .........

So in conclusion, of u see 2 similar dps items, go for the one with higher atk per sec. It will boost yur overall dps after counting elemental dmg n other eq avg dmg and aspd.

Hope thT helps

Bump....

Edit, 2820 ur both right and wrong
Yes Element adds to avg dmg but aspd affects the dos formula mor than avg dmg. Thus, pick higher aspd main weap. There is a reason why axe mace spear are much cheaper than wand and swords.

Source from monkeybazz, imba archon player thT cleared my doubts last time.

This post has been edited by Davy123: May 2 2013, 03:14 PM

hmm, yeah...meteor is not viable but with blizzard, thanks to cold blooded passive skill, i think it maybe beneficial especially against tons of mobs, plus it slows down their movement.

For the disintegrate, we must use convergence? How about intensify skill rune?

I tried sleet storm build.....i dont think i want to try it again. lol

Flipping now really hard

Reason is you are competing against AH tycoons and AH bots. I've seen so many awesome triumvirate, chant wand, chant off hand bidded at 2b on 1d11h.

I gave up on flipping since patch hit and i'm just farming. Sometimes lucky, sometimes not so.

Weird I run my spec with memPo and storm crow through d3up and yeah mempo with the 9AS gives me higher DPS but the weapon's damage range and average hit is higher with the 8% elemental damage.

I think u might have misunderstood me. No doubt AS will give you higher DPS but is pretty much inflated DPS. What i'm looking for is solid consistent damage and the elemental damage wins here IMO.

A good example was my DH and my friend's DH. both same DPS but i'm at 2.12 AS and he is at 1.6-1.7 AS. He hits harder.

Yeah blizzard + cold blooded seems viable but i've yet to test this spec solo.

Hmm, i tried all runes of disintegrate actually. I still can't make up my mind but so far the good ones while running with a CM seems to be convergence.

1. Convergence - wider beam
2. Chaos nexus - doesn't seem right unless u r at melee range
3. entropy - doesn't pierce or doesn't pierce enough and requires you to be at melee
4. volatality - nahh
5. intensify - nice but thin beam

i'm still mixing and matching. If you have a better one, let me know!

Another one i'm looking forward against uber boss, is the death blossom build. O.M.G.

look for a youtuber named Archon. He tested it in PTR. Seems to be viable.

This post has been edited by peinsama: May 2 2013, 03:46 PM

archon inferno friday? yeah saw his vids.

I'm checking out death blossom as well. Don't really get how it works. Is pretty random but I guess against ubers is a sure hit. Thanks for the tip!

I don't get u bro..but formulas don't lie..if u look at it, emental dmg is multiplied into avg dmg before being multiplied by atk per sec..so, aspd is actually the prime factor of the dps output..

another logic view on this matter is, 2 wiz has 400k dps, one with 2aps another 3aps..well, if u spam skills such as archon beam it depends solely on paper dps which is 400k, both wiz will have similar dps output.
If u spam meteors, which is affected by aspd, the 3aps wiz will b able to deal mor dps bcos he castes 3 meteors of 400k dmg each in 1 sec while the 2 aps wiz can only cast 2 meteor of 400k dmg each sec.

Edit:
I farm mp5 a3 alkaizer plus keep3, and towers at 30mins each run. 6-10de, 300-350k gold, 0-3legs which are useless as far as I know. Roughly 1m in 1.5hours. If I'm to farm 100m at this rate, I will need 150hours..am I doing something wrong? Damn hard to earn money since nth sells these days.

Edit 2:
I've been talking to a few lyn folks about when's new expansion? New lvl cap, new items, new maps. That's the only way to get the economy running..lol

This post has been edited by Davy123: May 2 2013, 04:17 PM

the problem is....

100 m only can buy you an average item

Yes elemental damage is being multiplied into average damage first. So isn't it better to get a weapon with higher average damage?

The above example of Axe Vs Wand. AS no doubt make the beam ticks more in archon mode but here I think we should prioritize average damage because the DPS of a weapon is inflated with the base AS on the weapon. Good example is rare xbow vs manticore. Manticore's DPS is AS influenced so it will never hit as hard as a rare xbow with the same DPS.

My understanding is based on my DH experience so i'm assuming is probably the same with wiz. Harap harap not wrong la.

Yes formula don't lie and yes i agree that the AS influences the DPS output. But i'm trying to explain that paper DPS is not what you should look for in archon mode because archon's are dependent on weapon damage. A good example was my friend and my DH last time, same DPS but his Ball Lightning hits 100k harder than mine. My DPS was paper DPS as I stack tons of AS on my DH.

Yes haha, I feel u bro..I'm trying to flip cheap items these days, earning bits by bits..it's so much diff from the good old days when every 3-5 runs sure get few items to sell.

Boss, my understanding right or wrong? Might need to tweak if is wrong.

Hmm im not sure bro 2820. Here my calculations. Might b wrong cos im not maths major.
i dont dare to conclude anything since this is first time im experimenting with elem dmg. I manipulate the avg dmg of main weap and kept constant the elem dmg to check dps output but it appears that both cases yield similar dps.

lets use a total of 30% elem dmg frm eq, for a 1.4 aps wand and a 1.2 aps spear
1. 500-900 avg dmg, 1.4 aps wand equivalent to 980dps shown. [(500*1.3 + 900*1.3)/2]*1.4 = 1274 dps
2. 633-1000 avg dmg, 1.2 aps spear equivalent to 980 dps shown. [(633*1.3+1000*1.3)/2]*1.2 = 1273.74 dps


I think dh lightning ball is based on both aps and avg dmg which is similar to wiz arcane orb i used to play back in 1.01, now lets put 2 examples :
1. 400k dps,3.0 aps dh spaming lightning ball..each LB hits based on the avg dmg of 400k
2. 400k dps,2.0 aps dh spaming LB..each LB hits based on the avg dmg of 400k as well. But the tricky part is that this 2nd dh cast only 2 LB in a second whereas the 1st dh casted 3 LB in one sec.
3. 500k dps, 1.0 aps dh spaming LB will have higher dps than the 400k dps dh. But, the 1st dh having 3aps is able to cast 3 LB which results in higher dps than the 3rd dh.

I dont know why ur dmg is less than ur friend's LB knowing that both u and ur friend have similar dps. Not entirely sure about this but i'll ask my RL dh friend to test out when hes free.

lets use a total of 30% elem dmg frm eq, for a 1.4 aps wand and a 1.2 aps spear
1. 500-900 avg dmg, 1.4 aps wand equivalent to 980dps shown. [(500*1.3 + 900*1.3)/2]*1.4 = 1274 dps
2. 633-1000 avg dmg, 1.2 aps spear equivalent to 980 dps shown. [(633*1.3+1000*1.3)/2]*1.2 = 1273.74 dps

Continue, include avg dmg items from source/other eq ( lets say avg of 200-600 )

1. 500-900 avg dmg wand. [(700*1.3 + 1500*1.3)/2]*1.4 = 2002.00 dps
2. 633-1000 avg dmg spear [(833*1.3 + 1600*1.3)/2]*1.2 = 1897.74 dps

Looks like the adding avg dmg increases dps output in case 1 more than case 2.

edit :
i give up sorting up/researching the forums for formulas. U might wanna ask the ang mo kau for better opinions.

This post has been edited by Davy123: May 2 2013, 06:05 PM

i thought for single hit skills like ball lightning, hota, bola, then APS doesnt matter.. its either you hit hard with less bullets or you hit softer with many bullets. at end of day avg dmg per sec is the same

but for skills like caltrops, rend, that explosion thingie on cm wiz, all which has a determined amount of ticks per activation then its more sensible to go for higher avg dmg

Davy123

Your math is right. I think we deviated from the original topic. We are comparing two weapons: A wand and A spear. Assuming NO ADDITIONAL average damage from other sources, two weapons with identical DPS, the weapon with the slower APS will be hitting harder PER HIT. I think we all know/agree on that and i have no idea why i'm bringing this up now. LOL

If you add in identical average damage coupled with the elemental damage then yes your math is right. The wand would be harder due to higher DPS. But bear in mind, we are comparing similar DPS setups here. (or are we?)

For example, a 200k DPS skorn wielding monk and a 200k DPS DW monk. The skorn user would be hitting harder per bells or per hit. Same goes to a manticore vs rare xbow DH, both with similar DPS. The rare xbow DH's BL would be hitting harder per ball.

I choose a slower but higher average damage weapon for archon because is gonna give more damage per hit or per tick or how ever it is called.

wlcling

yeah you are right as well. I think i'm confuse as well right now.

Anyway, happy hunting.