I think manticore hit harder per ball than rare bow. Bow has lower avg dmg thn manticore. Per ball of LB relies on avg dmg yes exactly like @Black said.
Yeah you are right for all except the part about archon beams..tht beam is directly from the paper dps, which is affected by aps and avg dmg. It is similar to the currently popular growing disintegrate skill. lets say u have disintegrate costing 15ap per sec. Then if u have 2aps you will burn exactly 30ap per sec( not including ap recovering). This shows beams are based on both aps and avg dmg. If it isnt affected by aps, u will only burn 15ap in 1 second instead of 30ap.

So, go for EF, 1h swords, chants, or similar aps 1h weapons. The archon 1st skill and left click depends on avg dmg for sure, but not that beam. Its all based on my experience as a wiz so far, might be wrong which is why i suggest u ask the ang mo kau's better.

I need more motivation to hunt..haha..what u guys flipping nowadays? share share~

@2890 and davy123 thx for the maths but i see liao

i was a rare mace 2 handed user before, it has the highest avg dmg and it surely hit harder PER HIT base on my meteor use, so 2890 statement is right but davy123 statement is right too because he is base on continuous dmg over certain time not base on 1 hit, as he said if both player having same dps, one is 3AS another is 2AS, the higher AS one will deal more dmg over time, eventhough his PER HIT dmg is lower but his total dmg let say over 10min will be higher because he hit 3 time per second over the 2 time per second.

i would say it depend on skill, i never use DH before, but base on WIZ, meteor rely on the AP to cast so it wont be able to continuous spam so the higher avg dmg weapon will be better than AS one. But CM wiz build, all their skill can be continuous spam so the AS is no longer an inflated figure and is better compare to avg dmg. 2890 i think ur DH will hit more dmg over 10min if u compare just normal hit with lower AS fren, but if compare skill that need a lot mana/AP to cast then he will hit more dmg.

ok now back to my question my concern is solely on archon beam only, heard is just base on paper dps, so does that mean avg dmg or AS does not matter ? just pick the weapon that give the highest dmg paper dps shown on character screen ?

This post has been edited by chitchat: May 2 2013, 08:28 PM

Yes buddy, you're absolutely right. It isnt affected by aps or avg dmg. All that matters is the paper dps. But ofc, if u can get higher aps why not? Those top wiz is 2.6+ aps with 500k dps unbuffed.

Sry about tht confusing numbers, jz trying bring up what i learnt few months back and share.

Edit : eh, aps does matter for the archon beam. Bcos it functions as disintegrate jz that it doesnt cost any ap using archon beam. But the aps does not affect final dps output of archon beam. Lol, u got me confused as well. Wah, pls stop discussing? Lol, we got some good conclusions alrdy.

This post has been edited by Davy123: May 2 2013, 08:36 PM

thanks for the formula but i still not sure, can i conclude base on the calculation, if both weapon same dps, the higher AS weapon will multiply more dmg if added triumvirate element % compare to the higher avg dmg one ? or the other way round ?

I'm not comparing with bow. Rare xbow as in rare crossbow

Bow are weak. haha.

So yeah BL hits harder on a rare xbow compared to a manticore because manticore's DPS is AS influenced where else the xbow is pure damage.

Hmm, yeah you are right. But what I wanted to clarify was is elemental damage better or AS better for the archon beam? Cuz my archon style is to stack:

1. Average damage
2. CC and CHD
3. Elemental Damage

then only AS. AS ranks the lowest because I felt that in archon mode, I wanna hit hard not hit fast. After reading what you wrote, it got me thinking maybe archon and say BL or other skill that relies on xx% weapon damage has different mechanics.

My understanding is if two char with identical DPS, the one with lower AS should hit harder per hit on skills that says xx% weapon damage i.e: Ball Lightning.

What about archon? Two chars with same DPS, one say 2APS one say 1.6 APS. Anyway to tell? Does it mean that 1.6APS archon hits harder per tick while 2.0APS archon hits weaker per tick but tick more often? Result is a tie???

flipping no longer possible with new patch cuz and cuz of AH bots and AH tycoons.

This post has been edited by 2890: May 2 2013, 08:44 PM

that you gotta do a simulation on d3up.com

boy now im confuse as well. LOL

Anyway, just get as much paper DPS as possible. THat's what i understood so far because davy123 is right, archon beam is channeling style so the damage calculation has to include attack speed as well.

yeah i missed out on that. Thanks man!

@2890 i think they say archon beam is depend on paper dps at ur char screen, i think it mean higher AS does not make it hit faster nor higher avg dmg make it hit harder, well not sure maybe davy can enlighten us hehe

I found the answer to all the questions here.

Check this out.

http://www.clicktoloot.com/p/combat.html#offense

When you channel a skill with a continuous effect such as Disintegrate, it will deal damage based on cycles, which are equal in length to your swing speed, that is 1/APS value. The damage is calculated based on those cycles, then spread over the whole cycle duration so that it's dealt to the target continuously instead of once every cycle. Just as with DOTs, damage is shown as combat text every half a second, with rounded numbers.

A thing worth pointing out is that channeled skills deal same dps (when weapon's dps stays constant) over time no matter the weapon's speed. Their cost on the other hand is paid per attack cycle, therefore making faster weapons burn your resources at a higher rate compared to a slow one. As Wizard and Witch Doctor are the main users of channeled spells, and they do not have access to real resource generator abilities like the other classes' Primary Skills, considering weapon speed is of utmost importance for their resource management. This is really no different to any other skills, but people might find the continuous nature of channeled skills confusing.

This means that channeling's skill damage is independent of weapon AS but dependent on weapon DPS. A faster weapon only makes you burn your arcane power faster.

Okay i'm confuse.

oh btw, davy123 is right. Archon beam = char screen DPS. Okay, let's stack paper DPS!

lol bro 2890,

with my sucky build and items, i manage to play the disintegrate build moderately, but here's my suggestion.

Switch blizzard skill slot to frost hydra and substitute disintegrate convergence to intensify. I somehow able to intensify easily maybe because i'm used to archon disintegrate. Seems like a viable build bro.

I've been alternating between all the hydras. So far i think venom is better with CM. Your frost hydra is in solo mode? i'll give it a try but yeah blizzard sucks. I tried it during solo mode and don't think is good.

Intensify? the beam so thin and u got no problem triggering APoC?

Yeah, good link u got thr. Concluded. Now im more confident to explain tht to other wiz if they ask.
Hope u build a nice archon thr. Things prety cheap nowadays. took me 1b to build my current archon back in pre-1.06. But 1b now can build 500k dps archon with good ehp and LS.

Yup solo bro. Hahaha, in terms of effectiveness per Arcane power, frost hydra is better compare to blizzard. At least, em hydra target moving enemies while at the same time helps me trigger cold blooded on them. If blizzard i have to make sure i target the area correctly.

At times, my arcane power dried out but that's because i do not have stone of jordan to reduce disintegrate ap costs. I only depend on my Apoc and storm armor rune skill.

wah.. manyak numbers.

Anyway my Icey Build is only viable for MP1-3.

Why don't you ask a monk's opinion?

Tempest Rush requires 15 spirit to activate and the channel spirit requirement is 10/APS. If you are Dual Wield with 2.5APS you are burning 25spirit/sec if compare to a 2H (skorn FTW) 10spirit/sec @ 1.0APS, even with the same pdps. Hence the lower the APS with higher pdps the better resource utilization.

I believe the same applies to any channeling skill that a lowest APS high avg dmg weapon are in advantage.

This post has been edited by yuhhaur: May 3 2013, 11:34 AM

oh the monk opinion was on bell damage per hit. don't remember but thanks!

how's your wiz going?

soon, I got the last mile on my monk. TR till puke lol

random: SAYA SUDAH UNDI!

I double checked. APS is important for Archon build.

The more APS stacked for the build, the faster the Archon left click on the ground.

oh waiiii

incoming patch 108 tonite nerfalems