I am considering Inverter & Non Inverter Air Con.

Do it really save electricity using INVERTER Using in LIVING ROOM etc ?

Which brand is recommended ?

I had the same dilemma last year when i was choosing air cond.

What I was told by the air cond technician is that, unless you on the air cond for around 10 hrs or long periods of time, there is no difference between them.

Because from what I understand, inverter saves electricity by maintaining the temperature through constantly cooling and running at low power.

While non inverter air cond maintains the temperature by cooling it down to the desired level, stops cooling and will only start cooling again after the temperature rises to a certain level.

This act of cooling and stopping takes up a lot of electricity, as more electricity is needed to restart the cooling as compared to running the cooling at low power continuously.

Thats what I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong...

So if you're just using for your living room, there should be no need for an inverter. Plus the price difference between inverter and non inverter is not exactly small.

As for brand, my recommendation would be PANASONIC. Its more expensive compare to the rest but each of them have lasted at least 10 yrs before breaking down and requiring extensive repair. When that time came, I just bought a new one...

Currently for my house I bought 5 air cond, all PANASONIC. 3 unit 1.5 hp and 2 unit 1 hp. 2 unit 1.5 hp in the living room and 1 unit 1.5 hp in the master bedrooom. Electric bill stands at around RM200-300, no tampering of my power meter.
My neighbor using dunno what brand, dunno how he use, he is complaining of paying RM800 a month.

And please take note, normal house circuit only can take total 4 hp of air cond running at any one time.

This post has been edited by radver: Jun 26 2012, 10:43 PM

Inverter starts saving money once it has achieved a stable condition, ie, there is no extensive temperature hike from your set temperature. To achieve the stable condition, you will need 3 hours minimum. So if you are using your AC more than that, you can get an inverter AC. If you still insist that you will get a inverter because you might use it more during weekend, compare the running amps between the brand and model you want. Another note, starting amp for inverter is always smaller.

So, ur current HOUSE PANASONIC is inverter or NOn - inverter ?

usefull info, thanks for sharing, i m also think of inverter or non-inverter, since i will set auto off after 2-3hours, i think i better go for non inverter type

Do you actually switched on more than 3 a/cs every night from evening till next morning? If you are only running 1-2 a/cs then it's justifiable.

Your neighbour probably runs 3-4 a/cs simultaneously though.

For my dad's house, he is running his a/c from 6pm till 5am, my youngest sis runs whole day (yes whole day) and my 2nd youngest sis runs her a/c from 6pm till 7am.

Our bill is about 500-600 per mth.

Plus of course there is about 8 ppl in the house, who uses water heater to shower as well.

U'll see savings IF u set ~>25C above. if u constantly set <22C or below, it is as good as non inverter

The more correct way of saying is "Inverter air cond will save electricity IF there are frequent stop-start situation".

Example:
1. Tiny air cond in very big room. No stop-start situation so no saving.
2. Big air cond in small room. Frequent stop-start situation so save lots of electricity

what bout problems face by both models in terms of spare parts if warranty is over?

For inverter to be cheaper than the equivalent non inverter, it must fulfill a few condition:-
1.) Use more than 8 hours a day. Less than that the savings that you get cannot cover the difference in cost.

2.) 25-27c. If you go too low, the inverter will be at maximum power all the time and you will not get any benefits from it.

3.)Appropriately sized. Similar to above, if you use too small of a aircond , then it will be at maximum power all the time to cool your room and therefore no saving benefits.

Generally people will use inverter for bedrooms and non inverters for living rooms.



This post has been edited by Drian: Jun 27 2012, 01:29 PM

honestly guys the blanket statements given just dont make a lot of sense.

1. inverter only saves at specific temp range.

false: inverter saves WHENEVER its not used under full load. This is a huge difference.

2. appropriately sized: true inverter or not aircon must always be appropriately sized. otherwise it wont do any good. appropriate depends on your very specific cool requirement and the level of insulation and airexchange in your room. for a badly insulated room you might need 2 HP while for the same room and temp setting you only need 1 HP with good insulation.

3. Minimum hour of usage to save

There is no minimum usage to save. You save from the first minute onwards (under non full load conditions). It's a question of breaking even.

Since inverters are deemed to run with less stress on mechanics they should also last longer - how much i dont know. Guess is around 30-50% longer lifespan. since the inverter costs you around 30-40% more vs. the same model non-inverter you already break even on the lifespan savings. any additional savings will be from using less power.

so wether you use 24/7 or just 3hrs per day - you still save power.

Bro, you sure about this? Any creditable source to support?

For number 1, it is correct as the inverter will not be operating under full load, because it is at a specific temperature range. Whether or not the inverter is operating at full load is a function of temperature.
Also since the inverter itself has a efficency of say 90-92%. You probably need less than 90% load for inverter to outperform the non-inverter in efficiency.

For number 3, it is true that the compressor should last longer due to reduced stress to the mechanical parts. However you still have an extra inverter(which is basically an AC -DC converter) which comes with the PCB board and supporting circuitry, and that is more prone to failure.

No need for lengthy write-up. Just have to remember 1 thing.

Inverter ONLY save money when there are stop-start situation.

1. The more often the stop-start situation, the more money saved.
2. If there are no stop-start situation, zero money saved. In fact, more money spend.

Here my actual experience. First aircon is panasonic non inverter 1hp using 8hr for sleep. Bill average rm110. Run about 8-9yrs before it finally spoil.

Replace a new Panasonic inverter 1.5hp. Same usage. Bill cost me average rm70. Already running 5yrs till now.

First yrs already get back my return compare non inverter. Base on the last time bill and current bill. 5yrs now I already save rm2400. The save Can use for service the aircon many many time.

No matter how many hr using, it still save. Long or short. Sometime I find you guy are very slow to adopt the technology which is already more than 10yrs old. And still undecided it now.

You tell us how big the room etc. For what you described to be possible, your air cond must be big enough for the room. Tiny air cond in big room not possible

Inverter starts at full load to achieve set temperature, get the room into stable condition as soon as possible. That is why the room cools down faster with inverter.

My room is about 180ft2.

One thing I learn is, size the aircon according to the room size. Not your wallet size.

Assuming your ceiling is 9 ft, that means the room's volume is 1620 cubic ft. That requires an air cond of about 9720 btu. Your air cond is 13000btu. Your air cond is actually much bigger than the requirement. In situation like this, there will be VERY frequent stop-start operation. So you are guaranteed to save money by installing an inverter.

Just remember one thing: Inverter ONLY save money if there are stop-start operation. Period.

how u calculate the room btu ? what about lighting.. ? punya heat... etc etc etc ?

It is not just the inverter. The size of the aircon too.

The start stop is depend on the weather. When there is hot weather, the aircon run more. I can tell because I put it into auto mode.

The amount $ I save is already can buy another unit. So why you guys still doubt about inverter?

here... simple room btu calculation for air cond...
http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/air-c...oner-calculator

can advice how many HPs and Inverter or not for my living room?


Attached thumbnail(s)

true camel - 55313.2 BTUH Sensible Cooling - 31139 Btuh

Assuming, instead of 180sq ft, your is 500 sq ft instead with 1.5HP air cond. If you use Inverter, you will actually ended up using 10% more electricity than a non-inverter air cond. So using wrong size air cond will not save money.

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Added on June 28, 2012, 10:40 amI think you need over 30,000 BTU.

If you only fit one unit of 24000 or 27000btu, just get the non-inverter.

If you are going to fit 2 units of 18000 + 18000, inverter should work for you.

My 2 sen.



This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Jun 28 2012, 10:40 AM

It is not wrong size. My room is just about the 1hp spec. But I haven't calculate in the room insulate and wall radiation heat. The next spec is 1.5hp. There is no 1.25hp in the market. Which 1 you pick?

So if choose the 1.5hp size than, inverter or non inverter? Which 1 is saving? Don't get confuse with size and inverter.

BTU of the Inverter and non inverter is about the same. It just the way of inverter running is saving your bill.

sorry what is 18000?
how many HP is that?

Also inverter running at 100% load is actually less efficient than non inverter.

Whatever the gas R22 will be phase out, so in future we maybe running the same gas for both inverter or non inverter. Or maybe another type of gas.

18000btu....= to 2.0hp

18000btu/h per unit is too much la. Get 2 units of 15000btu/h AC. Total 36000 btu/h is overkill. Inverter or non inverter you look at how is your usage. 9000btu/h equals to 1HP.

Unless budget restraint, my view is, better to have too much/big than have too little/small. With too much, you can always turn it down but not the other way up.

And beside, I think 30,000 is the minimum so best be more conservative. My calculation ranges from 30,000 BTU to 35,000 BTU but I don't know which is the accurate ones.


This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Jun 28 2012, 12:22 PM

My calculation goes to a slight bit less than 32,000 btu/h. It is really his preference. For me I will go for 2 units of 15,000 btu/h unit. I personally believe that it is enough. Optimise what I need and save on my wallet.

There are several variables and I notice this is for living room. You may need the bigger 35000BTU if:
1. There are constant people moving in and out of the room.
2. Lots of sunlight coming into room
3. More people in living room compared to bedroom.
4. Extra heat from big Plasma TV
5. Huge Class A heat generating amplifier for HiFi
etc

Of course there will be.

1. There are constant people moving in and out of the room. - We do not know that. How often do we see people go open the front door of the living room?
2. Lots of sunlight coming into room - My calculation is facing east in the evening
3. More people in living room compared to bedroom. - My calculation is based on 4 people in the room
4. Extra heat from big Plasma TV - My calculation is based on the usage of 600 Watt electrical appliances
5. Huge Class A heat generating amplifier for HiFi - I did not consider that

I think only the person asking the question can answer those.

This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Jun 28 2012, 12:50 PM

Huh? Lots of people going in and out from your living room? Only hotel has that in a lobby. Your occupants don't sit around the house but go out and in all the time? I go in and out from my bedroom quite often. More often than going out from my living room to my porch.

During the morning, heat from sun is lesser than of the evening. If the living room is facing the east, during sunset, the heat will go to either the kitchen or else where. Living room will be spared. I put the room facing east as a buffer, since the best/ not hot situation will be the room either facing north or south (sun will go from east to west without direct light going into the house). Worst case will the room facing west, and I hope that this living room is not.

See..everybody is different. I go in and out of living room often. Sometime to the garden to water the plant. Sometime throw rubbish etc. As for bedroom, only go in at night at bedtime to sleep and I don't sleep walk. As to what the person who posted that question did, have to ask him.

Your post "My calculation is facing east in the evening". It confuses me. Why only face east in the evening? Does it means during the morning, it faces West? Hence my question. For me, those facing West and hence full force of the hot afternoon sun is the worst for air cond.

I don't think this is a right statement.

Both non-inverter and inverter work the same way, aka full loan at start to achieve the set temperature.

So there is no reason the room cool down faster with inverter or not.

Well, select what suits you best. Me and you are here to give him/ her opinion.

In my another phrase, I apologize that I confused you. My bad?

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Added on June 28, 2012, 1:59 pmWrong. Inverter runs from from 30Hz to 70Hz. Compressor RPM at 70Hz is higher than standard non-inverter 50Hz, hence cooling rate is higher. Check out Panasonic, Daikin, Mitsubishi catalogue for 50% faster cooling.

This post has been edited by lingleeyen: Jun 28 2012, 01:59 PM

Thanks for the clarification, I don't aware inverter is running at 70Hz.

At full load it is. Some inverter with different brand runs more than 70, some less.

Which brand Inverter, in you view, is the best? And how would you rate York's Y series?

In my view, there is no best inverter, no best AC. All AC works with the same principle. It is not like your AC can fly. ACs are backed with brands and so called recommedations. All AC has fair share of problems. Some ones recommendation is another condamnation.

You can only bet. Bet that it will last, bet that the catalogue value is what it claimed to be, bet that the service or installer knows what he is doing, bet that the additional functions actually works the way you wanted, bet that the after sales service is good.

How to bet, place your bets on the big brands. Not something like Media, i, Koolman.

u are partly correct...inverter save if u on your air con 24/7.... it still act the same as normal aircon but with inverter fitted in the start and stop mechanism of cooling of the air con compressor take up lesser energy .. tats all... my 2cent

I don't bother with lesser brand. I am only interested in
1. Daikin. I am concern of their using R22 gas which may be less available in future.
2. York. They are using R410. So are their Y series using Daikin's technology?
3. Panasonic.

.......I lost of words with this explanation.

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Added on June 28, 2012, 9:50 pm I am pretty sure that you have already select your brand. So why not go with it leh?

York is not Daikin, Daikin is not York. Daikin under Daikin Corp. York under JCI.

This post has been edited by lingleeyen: Jun 28 2012, 09:50 PM

In 2006, the OYL Group became part of Daikin Industries Ltd of Japan, hence my asking.
http://www.oyl.com.my/

I'm using PANASONIC non inverter air cond. All bought last year...

On paper, yes inverter will save electricity compare to no inverter. But as others have pointed out there are other factors to consider also.

1) Air cond size suitable for the room size - air cond too small is the problem
2) Tinted windows or not - better heat insulation always saves electricity
3) downstairs or upstairs room - downstairs room always cooler then upstairs room
4) how low the temperature you set for usage - air cond will always be full blast if you set 22 degrees celcius, hence no saving
5) how much of the wall facing the sun - I just moved from a terrace house to a corner lot, extra one wall facing the sun = extra heat, so obvious...
6) how long the air cond is on each day or night

Balance it out and the inverter air cond will work as designed and save electricity. If air cond not powerful enough to overcome the heat introduction via the various factors above. No savings...

And if you're renovating the house, consider the budget very carefully.

For my family, air cond is never on >5 hours, temp 26, all windows tinted, I didn't calculate so accurately for the required air cond size, just depend on word of mouth, air cond technician, friends and family's experience

My conclusion la...

This post has been edited by radver: Jun 28 2012, 10:35 PM

Yup, OYL Group was acquired by Daikin at that time. The only link they have with York is Group Associated and OYLC. GA is a sales entity/ sales office. They sell York Room Air Cond and Package Air Cond in Malaysia. Another subsidary of OYL Group is OYL Condair. They are the manufacturer of Chillers, Air handlers, fan coil, mainly on the commercial side of Air Conditioner under York brand, because this subsidary is a joint venture between OYL and JCI. Daikin does not control the manufacturing side of York RAC. York is under Johnson Controls International.

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Added on June 29, 2012, 8:14 amYou very funny la...Since you know already the problem why not rectify it and do it the right way?

1) Air cond size suitable for the room size - air cond too small is the problem (Get the right sized AC)
2) Tinted windows or not - better heat insulation always saves electricity (Tint it. Saves you electricity even if you are on Non Inverter)
3) downstairs or upstairs room - downstairs room always cooler then upstairs room (True. Higher temperature, get a bigger capacity AC. Non Inverter needs to be sized in teh same logic too)
4) how low the temperature you set for usage - air cond will always be full blast if you set 22 degrees celcius, hence no saving (Not necessarily. Depending on your room size and room condition for this one)
5) how much of the wall facing the sun - I just moved from a terrace house to a corner lot, extra one wall facing the sun = extra heat, so obvious...(Get the right sized AC and black out curtain. What does it have to do in affecting your selection between Inverter and Non Inverter?)
6) how long the air cond is on each day or night (My study is that inverter starts saving with correct sized AC after 3 hours of stable room condition achieved)

If never on more than 5 hours, you will still save if you can achieve your stable room condition fast enough. It is just that the ROI is slow. If I on my Inverter AC for 8 hours and it saves after 3 hours, my saving is on the balance 5 hours. Of course my ROI is faster.


This post has been edited by lingleeyen: Jun 29 2012, 08:14 AM

so conclusion which 1 shud i get?

Meaning to say, there are no technology transfer between Daikin and York? I was hoping there is. I am very happy with York non-inverter and just don't know about their inverter type good or not.

One thing I couldn't understand. York's L series 24000btu has poor EER compared to Panasonic whereas those with smaller btu are as good or better than Panasonic. Any idea why?

You should go to the real aircon site to check it out. You dont see result here. Let the dabating continue here.

I believe that there is no technology transfer between Daikin and York for the RAC. Generally, the York Non Inverter is much better than Pana. Cheaper too. Inverter type, York loose out a little. I have no idea why the EER is poor for a certain range. There can be the development direction. So pick the best out of the brands. Don't just stick to one brand.

Yes, I would say so because I find Pana's quality has been going down. And like I said earlier, I am very happy with York's non-inverter.

I am looking for a inverter in the 1500btu to 18000 btu range for the bedroom for use at night. Any recommendation?

I`m using an inverter, and like some say, use it more than 3 hours then you`ll see the save. =D

For 1 HP Inverter, I got the Panasonic PS9MKH. Inverter only no other function like ECONAVI or e-ion. For Bedroom, I got a S15MKH. Inverter with ECONAVI and e-ion. 2HP i got a York M series YWM20/YSL20 with ioniser.All bought last month.

What wrong with pana?

Nothing wrong with Pana. I am just saying some of the model has lower spec than the other brands. So select the best among brands.

Got a question here , do i need to switch on the econavi mode to enable energy saving ? or the panasonic inverter are design to save energy all by itself ?

Switch on anything that can be run auto. Even econavi.

Even it is inverter, if you overwrite the saving mode, it don't save.

ooo everything in auto mode plus econavi, thanks for the guide bro

i need to change from non-inverter to inverter, normally how much will they charge per feet?
and to take down the old unit as well.

I get the BTU calculation from one got the Panasonic Technician, the formula are simple as below:
(H x L x W) (ft) x (heat factor)

He claim that Malaysia heat factor was:
5 - Cool environment
6 - Sunlight / Room with Windows
7 - Kitchen / Rooftop environment

Eg: A room with 10ft Width/Height/Lenght in a condo with 2 windows.
BTU = 10 x 10 x 10 x 6/7 = 6000/7000
1HP aircon is more than enough for this case.

When 6? When 7?
Window with partial sunlight? Direct sunlight into your window?

Just my 2 sen.
Hope it helps.

The most important aspect on inverter savings is how to use it to maximize comfort and energy saving.

First thing to do is to determine your personal room temperature that you are comfortable. I believe 24 degrees C is the best. When you set that temperature, the aircon will run until it hits 24 degrees thens cuts off (non-inverter) or slows down (inverter). Thus if you set a temperature say at 20 degrees then both aircons will have to work very hard to maintain that temperature as the delta between outside ambient temperature to the target temperature is greater (thus a lower temperature than necessary will not save money versus a reasonable temp such as 24 degrees.) Non-Inverter aircons starts and stops very often -- it is the starting and stopping that draws the most energy versus a variable speed Inverter motor where it can slow the motor down and speeds up when required this where the energy savings comes in.

The other item is to consider that is not much point to wrap yourselves up in thick clothing or blankets and set the temperature at very cold such as 16 or 18 degrees C. That is wasting energy and wearing out your aircon.

CZlee's formula is very good indicator of the BTU required. Aircon rating is usually based on BTU in Malaysia. Here's an indication:

1 "ton of cooling," a common unit in North American refrigeration and air conditioning applications, is 12,000 Btu/h. It is the amount of power needed to freeze one short ton of ice in 24 hours, and is approximately 3.51 kW.

Typically 1HP aircons would have a cooling power around 9K+ BTU depending on make and model. Now, remember you only need to cool down the room not freeze a block of water into ice. Thus a 1HP Aircon is usually more than enough to cool a bedroom of 10x10x10 room.

The other aspect you want to consider is humidity as well (the amount of moisture in the air in the room); ideal humidity would be just below 50% not too dry not too wet. If you have humidity constantly above 70% you will see mold growing in corners of your walls in your room - this is caused by poor air ventilation and condensation. Mold is very bad for health. Malaysia climate is very very wet and humid, sometimes I wonder why people even bother buying humidifiers - that defeats the aircon and makes your aircon work even harder. If anything Malaysians should be buying dehumidifiers. --If you ever wondered why you have so much water coming out of your aircon units when they are running .... they are doing their job by removing moisture in the air and by doing so helps reduce air temperature.

Oversizing your aircon, the concept a lot of folks are considering buying a 1.5hp or 2.0 hp aircon instead of a 1hp aircon that matches the BTU required based on the above formula is that they think the aircon is more powerful and can cool a room much faster as compared to the 1hp aircon and so it shuts off faster and saves energy. That would be to a certain extent true, however most people also forgets about the humidity in the room, a nice comfortable room to sleep in is around 40% humidity, nice dry and cool. Versus a cold clammy feeling of a humid room cooled too fast - the moisture is still heavy in the air makes for an uncomfortable cold room. I would suggest follow the formula, get the an aircon that is size as close to the BTU you require let the aircon run for at 24 degrees for a few hours then you have a nice comfortable environment. An inverter aircon that is size right and run for an appropriate amount of time at 24 degrees will save more money than an oversize aircon, because an oversize aircon cools fast switches off ... but a short while later (30mins) you will still need to run the aircon again when the temperature rises ...

Also, don't forget humans are made out of 90% water, if more than one person shares a room ... the amount of moisture/humidity in the room rises even more rapidly ... of course cups of liquids/drinks we bring into the room will add to the moisture evaporation into the air too.

If you are wondering how you would know the level of humidity, you can buy an install an hygrometer or buy a digital clock that comes with a temperature and hygrometer.

Passive Cooling strategies:

This is in addition to buying an aircon.

1. Install a ceiling fan and run that step1 or step 2 speed, slow and steady helps spread the cooling of the aircon faster.

2. Install Aluminum Air Ventilators (thus silver rotating things you see on top of the roof) and put vents in each room ceiling, this will draw fresh air into the room when you are not using aircon. Very helpful by day, as the sun heats the roof, the hot air in the roof between the ceiling boards will exit via the vent which causes a negative air pressure as hot air exits cool air will be drawn from the room below and fresh air will be drawn from outside. This will help minimize your moisture in the room and reduces mold/mildew growth chances in your room.

3. Install awnings/shades for your window/walls to reduce direct sunlight heating your windows/walls.

Hope that helps.

This post has been edited by amberglow: Feb 26 2013, 09:21 AM

hye there, need to buy aircond. need recommendation how many HP,either inverter on non and the best brand.
my bedroom is 18x13. and probably i will use aircond <5hours per day at night.

From the formula given in this thread you will need 2.0HP aircond.

hi pejakb, maybe you can choose 1.5HP or 2.0HP 's air-cond, here are few type of air-cond brand with good reputable and affordable price (Daikin, Mitsubishi, York, Samsung) hope it can help u some.. hehehe

Thanks bro for the tips and info..

any review of sharp plasmacluster ac ?

I planning install 3 1hp & 1 2hp inverter. Is it really can save electricity? Need advise.
Thanks

Yes. Go with Inverters cost slightly more, but pays for itself in the long run. Even if you are doing a rental unit, go for inverter aircons, then you can advertise energy saving aircons so tenants pays a low electricity and your rental unit becomes more attractive.

Also as a safe guard in case tenant "lari" and leave utility bills not paid, you have a smaller electric bill to worry about. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

That's a gimmick, skip that feature on aircon; makes your aircon run very hot, and there's an iritating bright blue light indicator when you have the plasmacluster ionizer running. I have one unit I hardly or never switch on the ionizer feature.

Very hard to sleep when there's a bright blue light shinning.


Better you buy a separate air ionizer such as Medklinn Air Sterilizers if you are into negative ions.

http://www.medklinn.com/my/index.php?page=...atures-benefits

Thanks sir for the review and suggestion..

Ya inverter a bit expensive but i think in future hope can save more electricity bill.

I'm assuming you are changing from an existing R22 gas aircond installation to a R410A inverter type. You can save money on the piping by just getting Daikins. They are the only brand in the market with R22 gas + inverter combo. Best case scenario is you won't need to change your piping at all. Plus, their compressors are more thermally efficient than Panasonics

Kindly share ur knowledge/experience regarding the following:
- What's the meaning of thermally efficient?
- How to know from the spec sheet of both inverter model that the compressor in one is more thermally efficient than the other?

Thanks.

Taking the non-inverter models as a baseline, for 1HP
Daikin consumes 800W and outputs 2600W cooling capacity, that gives a ratio of 3.25
Panasonic consumes 865W and outputs 2650W cooling capacity, that gives a ratio of 3.06
Higher is better.

Once you factor in the inverter, things get a little bit more tricky, as the airconds don't always work at full power and output the same capacity
This is just a rough estimate based on the datasheet

Daikin R22: 1 HP inverter
at min consumption of 300W output should be cooling of 1200W, so max efficiency ratio is 4
at max power consumption of 1100W output should be cooling of 3200W, so efficiency is 2.9

Daikin R410a 1HP inverter
at min power consumption of 300W output should be 1200W, so max efficiency ratio is also 4
at max power consumption of 1050W output should be cooling of 3200W, so efficiency is 3.0

Panasonic R410a 1HP inverter
at min consumption of 225W output should be 840W, so max efficiency ratio is 3.7
at max power consumption of 920W output should be cooling of 3280W, so efficiency is 3.6

For inverters, it then implies that Daikins are more efficient as long as you don't turn on full blast at a super low temperature set point. Obviously if you right size your airconds, i.e., use the appropriate HP, then you wouldn't have to, because the room would be cool without a super low set point. (That's why buying the right HP for your room size is also important)

Really appreciate ur explanation above.

But the comparison above only valid for min and max output range, what's really happening in between is what really matters to conclude which inverter is more 'thermally efficient' no? Ofc like u said it's just a 'rough estimate', but these estimates seems abit weak to form a conclusion.

Seems like the Panasonic inverter cooling capacity output can go further 360W lower than the Daikin inverter at lower power consumption of 225W. Despite of the slightly higher efficiency in the Daikin in this lowest output level, if in a situation where a room is very small with excellent insulation where a cooling output of around 800W is sufficient to maintain the set temperature, then the Panasonic inverter would save more electricity rite?

This post has been edited by mimi1986: Apr 18 2013, 03:48 PM

I think you misunderstood a bit: you would want the cooling capacity to be HIGHER for a lower amount of electricity used, not less.
to put it simply: at lower electricity consumption, the Panasonic would also not be as cold. But having said that, if you just need 800W steady state to maintain the temperature, Panasonics will do fine. It's just that you have to shell out extra money to rip out your air-cond piping and replace them with thicker pipes to accommodate the higher working pressures of the R410A gas. If your existing pipes are in good shape, why bother? That was my rationale in choosing Daikins R22 inverter models over Panasonics. Don't forget too that in the event you need to refill gas during a servicing, R410A is about 3x more expensive (last I checked)

Thanks for the clarification.

But I think when u used the word 'cooling capacity' above, u r referring to 'cooling efficiency' rite?

Anyway, my existing pipes is the thicker pipe for R410a so not an issue. And the quotation for installation of R410a inverter model is rm200 versus R22 inverter model rm150, so the only concern is the gas refilling cost.

efficiency = output / input. how much you get out of what you put in. High cooling efficiency means you get more cooling out of less power used. IOW, more cold for less electricity used.
If you already have thicker pipes, then it shouldnt be an issue any more.

Lastly, some people say Panasonics are loud but others say they are quiet. I can't tell which is one is correct, but I know Daikins are consistently rated as quiet and supposedly have better build quality. At the end of the day it's more a case of a personal preference/brand loyalty, but both brands should meet your needs.

Hi, thanks for your recommendation. Does all model of Daikin R22 can use back the old piping? But I assume need some wiring for inverter control right?

Piping yes, I think can reuse, but wiring might be different. Best you check with your installer

For inverter. There are how many steps of the compressor speed. I think it has only 3. 0% 50% and 100%. Is it?

Additional note, inverter unit seems less cooling then non-inverter. So if you're those expect very fast cooling, then non-inverter is not for you

Its not less cooling, its just has a better temperature control. In return you'll get better power saving.

Not very sure bout temperature, I am using Panasonic Inverter.
So far average I on my aircon 4 hours average weekdays and include weekend (goes up to 7-8 hours per day).
normally 25-26celcius.

Electric Bill increase bout RM5-10 only.

Thanks, good to listen from "real" experience.

Guys I'm still using non-inverter and trying to save on the electric bill like everyone else cause I turn on my AC most of the time. Nowadays I use Dry mode and I take a reading from my meter for a few days to try out. Normally using the normal mode I used about 18-19kwH per night but using Dry mode I can get 13-14KwH.

I feel Dry mode can be quite cold as well. Wonder if I'm doing the wrong thing

My non inverter Pana is about 8 years old, and is not cooling very well. It starts/stops every 10 minutes or so even with the temperature reduced to 22-23% at night after a hot day. My aircon service guy says the compressor is not working properly. What do you guys think?

Thinking of changing to the inverter model (S13-PKH).

Guys how many HP air con is recommended for a 300+/- studio?