There isn't a doubt in my mind that this is a scam, but hasn't it ever occured to you that even lousiest of schemes pays at first? I say, when there's a wave, ride it! The trick is knowing when to get out. You're missing out on an exploit of a lifetime. Haha.

This isn't some small time run-of-the-mill scam either, its a brilliant and elaborate one at that (a gentlemanly tip of the hat to the proprietor). It's been going on for a while, and just by the sheep count in this thread, I'd say it still has some mileage left. The beauty of it all is that you don't even have to risk your own neck and get out in time, just profit and feed the fund with their money! It's useless to argue with these people. Come get your gold, fools! Run!

When a bunch of idiots gather, a smart guy somewhere always makes a profit - you can quote me on that.

This post has been edited by Madge: Aug 15 2012, 03:15 PM

If you call the Bank Negara and speak to them, then you will know how serious they are. They can't prevent you from buying, but from the tone, you can gauge that the mileage left could be very limited. The BNM advisor told me a scenario that if Bank Negara decides to raid any of these companies, then all their assets including the bank accounts will be frozen immediately. And whatever claims by the customers to the company will be frozen as well. In other words, if you don't have gold in your hands at the time of their raid, then it is as good as gone

For those potential investors, don't trust a single word from me. Call yourself to the Bank Negara to verify before writing your cheques

This post has been edited by EddyLB: Aug 15 2012, 03:24 PM

A recent news from Poland. Hmmm??? (Pls note Amber Gold operates differently with no physical gold delivery and its undoing was investing in unrelated business)

Amber Gold: all that glitters…
http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2012/08/1.../#axzz23cEoE9CT

Gold Fund's Collapse Rattles Poland
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000087239...578~200~46~0~2~

This post has been edited by chabalang: Aug 15 2012, 08:22 PM

About RM50-60 per bar and it comes with a certificate. If you have it assayed, try to arrange so that you get to keep that gold bar whenever to sell and buy back so that you don't have to waste money assaying a new bar every time. Better still, get the agent to pay for the assay! Just get a bit less commission la.

whoa... the snippet below sounds familiar..
"..Amber Gold has said it has $45 million in assets, including 100 kilograms of gold. For years it hasn't issued required financial statements, a lapse that draws a small penalty..."


This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 15 2012, 09:59 PM

problem is BNM hasn't come up with a proper set of rules when it comes to gold trading/investment/etc. If you see the list of 77 companies, they're under a list of "not authorized nor approved under the relevant laws and regulations administered by BNM"

yet, in an article less than a week ago - "There is no need to obtain license or approval from BNM to operate a gold trading business in the country"

So...

And the nature biz of Genneva is Ponzi scheme instead of gold trading business. There is no way to act as ponzi scheme and telling everyone it is gold trading business. Not good to lie for money.

what I'm trying to say is whether or not Genneva, ABC, XYZ is ponzi...BNM doesn't have any proper set of rules even though they said there is. This pretty much makes every gold investment/trading companies in the country...illegal yes?

All except Maybank, Public Bank, UOB, etc. Anyone see the pattern here?

The banks are probably trading illegally as well.....

DO they have the phsysical gold backing their gold accounts? i wonder?
Why do they discourage taking up delivery of the physical? i wonder?

These gold and forex companies are actually using the law to their advantage. Pure deposits taking and giving returns without licence contravenes Bafia. So to overcome and make (read : con) money, they package it to be more complicated and appear to be not deposit taking. Some of them use trading precious metal to camouflage the deposit taking, some using forex trading. Throw in high returns like 10%-30% returns and guaranteed buy back, many greedy investors fall for the scheme

Poh Kong, Tomei etc are pure trading gold. No thrills and frills of high returns or guaranteed buy back. BNM has no problem with them. So, I disagree "BNM doesn't have a proper set of rules". There are many genuine traders which are perfectly legal in Malaysia. BNM has already existing laws (although there are loopholes, obviously). Astute businessmen/conmen always find ways to challenge the law. Packaging the products that don't look like deposit taking and that should last them some years. Engage some lawyers and fight BNM in courts to buy time. They just need a few years to rake in billions. After that, they will register a new company and start all over again

yeah, now that you mentioned it...gov had an article about warning us about "paper gold"...doesn't banks fall into this category?

---

Added on August 16, 2012, 11:03 amvery true indeed. Genneva possibly fall under this category.
Genneva Sdn Bhd now under investigation...they open Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd.

This post has been edited by Aeon_Clock: Aug 16 2012, 11:03 AM

Banks do have authority approval before they set up gold investment account.

Gold investment account, doesn't means or mandate required by BNM to have the same amount of physical gold backing for it or must deliver physical of gold for every g they sold, depended on T&C se in the gold investment account.

They are not selling gold to you, but an investment on gold value.
The name speaks itself, gold investment account.
It is an investment.

Gold investment account can be backed or hedged by banks using gold futures contract, derivatives product etc, to protect bank interest/position, not necessary by physical gold.

Read my first posting in this thread.

---

Added on August 16, 2012, 7:06 pmGold trading companies by definition should be buying and selling physical gold and nothing else. If they take your money and not give you the physical gold, then it is deposit taking and that's when BNM will burn their asses. As long as they trade in physical gold, BNM has no jurisdiction over them.

However, BNM can still cause trouble by just acting based on "public complaints" (real or cooked-up or from banks that are losing FDs to gold trading). I won't be surprised the latter is true after all this Malaysia, where our enforcement agencies act as lapdogs to those in power or the well-connected! Once BNM raids, everything is frozen. Even if the complaints turned out to be false, the business would have been destroyed. It's becoming like Zimbabwe. This is the risk you have to take!

This post has been edited by kasimura: Aug 16 2012, 07:06 PM

This one is it?

You are only answering the mechanism by which it works. The real question is how and where the hibah is going to come from after 10 months? Where is the company going to get the money from?

What is the business model? Note, I asked about business model - not business secrets.

Reading between the lines, I can guess what model it is (and it's not good), but I'll wait for your answer.

What a laughable conspiracy theory

Look at the banks' deposits from customers. Maybank alone is RM340 billion http://www.maybank.com.my/files/Maybank%20...8Bursa%29_0.pdf (Page 5). If you add up all the banks in Malaysia, it sure well exceed RM1 trillion

How much is Genneva's "sale of gold" ? I read somewhere only a few hundred million, or was it RM3-5 billion ? Even it is RM5 billion, it is not even 0.5% of what the banks collected from the customers

Genneva is just a kuci meow compare to the banks. All the con-sultan has been brainwashed by the company

Dear all investors,

I have a question abt geneva gold. Geneva selling higher 25% than spot price, purchasers will offer 20-25% below spot price for unknown gold bars. Isn't that a 50% loss if company bankrupt? (That's if the whole gold bar is real in the first place)

PS: I have a big chubb safe that can fit in 2 people, same safe used by gold smiths, weigh abt 1.5 tonnes. Anybody interested to buy? Abt 20k.

And how do we know that its backed by anything?
Dont the customer have a right to know whats the backing as it is not PIDM?
Isnt doing this tradimg of other gold derived instrsuments conflict of interest as evidenced
by Goldman Sucks housing loan contracts?
Thats why theres call for banks to separate commercial and investing activities completely.

i dont think they tell you in the prospectus...

when i first invested in PBB gold account in 2008 i think, they allowed physical gold withdrwals.
Then abruptly they discontinued this....wonder why?

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Aug 17 2012, 07:16 AM

My guess, it is too hassle and pose security threat.
Merely earn little spread, but deliver physical can be quite hassle, while expose to security risk as well as need to spend more money on security expense, insurance etc.

You trust the bank.
Just like you deposit FD in bank, you do not know where the money being lend out, or how they use the money.

Yes.
I agreed with you on this, investment and banking is better to be separated it out.
For gold investment account, it is better being run by investment bank instead ordinary commercial bank.
Just like UT is run by UT company and not bank itself.

This is better being discussed in gold topic.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Aug 17 2012, 09:08 AM

[Didn't I give another example at 18 months with the real gain (money in hand) cf FD? The hibah or whatever you might call still comes from the same source as in my first example (6 months) or no matter how long you are in it, ie if you buy and sell back repeatedly to[ the gold company. Just use your brain a bit lah to extrapolate! If you still can't understand with my examples and numbers, as I said before, I can't help you. By the way, I am not an agent to any gold company, nor gain anything if any of you plunge into it. Just sharing knowledge and experience so that you guys can make informed decisions. Remember, there's no free lunch! So it involves risks just like any other investments, legitimate or otherwise.

[/B