Hi edyek, glad you finally understood -- "hibah is a gift not promise return. Gift it is..."

Before I continue, no "boss" here. Just like you and everyone else,
"I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money." — Mark Twain

To continue...
Up to you to buy gold from whoever. The difference is other gold companies don’t offer you Hibah; you only enjoy capital gains if the price of gold (quoted in the international market) appreciates, minus the spread or whatever the other gold traders offer you when you want to sell. It is clearly stated in FAQ section - http://bit.ly/QMebqy

Yes, it can be confusing based on conventional ways of doing business or "investing" mindset. I had a tough time too, had to clear my mind of all I learned to appreciate GENNEVA that is truly out-of-the box thinking. Today GENNEVA's vision has come true and fulfilling their mission as seen at http://bit.ly/QfEIWG ... hence, my sign-off as "Senior Consultant @Work with The World’s Most Innovative Gold Industry Leader"

If you seek further clarification, feel free to call me at (012) 210 4898 or text me with your name and phone number, I'll return call as soon as I can.

Meantime, have a blessed GOLDEN week ahead. Cheers!

This post has been edited by PatEagle: Aug 12 2012, 07:30 PM

PPIM is not the ultimate islamic religious committee in Malaysia. Majlis fatwa is. PPIM is just a consumer association, hence has no power whatsoever to issue edict. Have contacted PPIM asking them to clarify, but no response since the edict was issued (2 weeks ago?)

I know you meant well, but I am compelled to write in LYN and ask for some clarifications as I see many information written by forummers can confuse the public, be them from the "for" or "against" team.

For god's sake, u STILL avoid the question of "why should we buy more expensive gold from Genneva and get the Hibah rather than buy outside at cheaper price?"!!!

Yea, please do a service for everyone here. You are the only one in the 'pro genneva camp' doing the right thing

If you still do not believe in what the authorities said thus far, may I suggest you write to the following bodies for clarification and post up their replies for everyone's benefit.

1. Bank Negara Malaysia
2. Majlis Fatwa
3. PPIM

(Please feel 'compelled' to post your letters to the above 3 bodies in this thread so that we know you meant what you said )

Calling them you can only get verbal reply and have information only privy to yourself. Post a comment here based on verbal reply between you and the authorities is worthless to the readers

So far, the authorities have spoken up. Consumers have been warned. Now the burden of proof is on Genneva. Until you enlighten us with some written replies from the authorities, I believe most of us here are believing what the authorities said

Hope to hear the good news from you soon

Genneva is a scam.. that is why cannot answer you Pinky!

They use the words of Islam to do illegal things. What is the difference between them and terrorists who use the name of Islam to kill people.

First say Interest > then call Hibah > now change to Discount
Body got sh*t izzit?

Edit: If Genneva is a gold trading company, why can't pass the gold on the spot when purchase? Why need to fill and submit forms? Why give interest with the late players money?

This post has been edited by doraemonkiller: Aug 12 2012, 10:31 PM

"Genneva does no wrong if it is purely gold trading."...

To me, trading should be buying at a agreed price. Then the seller will handover the items when buyer pays.

Before you go into gold investment, you have to ensure that:

1) the gold must be genuine (get it assayed),

2) the gold is in your possession at all times(never release it for safe-keeping by the company!),

3) the company does not cease trading before a certain number of months (% "overpaid" divided by % rebate/hibah per month), and

4) the company buys back the gold at the price it sells you.


I am not supporting Genneva or other gold trading companies but here is how it works for the doubting Thomases:

1. You buy gold at retail price (say 20% above spot/bank/wholesale price)

2. You get 2% rebate/hibah per month

3. So for those who say that the buyer is just getting back the excess money he overpaid in the first place, well, it is true and false.

4. True because you really are getting back the part of the 20% higher price you paid

5. False because after 10 months (20% divided by 2%) you would have got back all 20% excess that you have paid. If the company is still in business after 10 months and you continue to do the same, then every month you are making nett returns of 2%

6. You will only rugi if the company go bust before that 10 months because you would not have got back the 20% excess that you have paid because with the gold in hand, you can only sell it at spot/bank/wholesale price to the bank/goldsmith.

7. If the company continues trading the same beyond that 10 months, the rebate/hibah would be real and at 2%x12months = 24% per year (which is much, much higher than FD/ASN/ASB (non-Melayu no chance because of UMNO's racist policies) or what-have-you!)

8. To make it clearer, here are examples:

A. You buy 100g at RM200/g , ie. RM20k
Spot price is RM160/g , ie you "overpaid" by RM4k for the 100g
Every month you receive 2% rebate/hibah, ie RM400
If the company go bust after say 6 months, than total rebate received after 6 months = RM2,400
You sell the 100g gold at spot price RM16k
So total money you received after 6 months (and selling the gold) = RM16k + RM2,400 = RM 18,400
Which means that you rugi RM1,600 (ie. RM20k - RM18,400)

B. If the company go bust at 10 months, you break even after collecting the 10 months of rebat/hibah and selling the gold at spot price.

C. If the company continues business beyond 10 months, your returns for 100g gold investment at say 18 months would be:
18 x 2% per month of RM20k = RM7,200 (plus the 100g gold in hand)

D. If you put RM20k in FD at 3% per annum for 18 months, you would get RM900.

E. So your nett returns in your gold investment at the 18th month is RM7,200, ie. RM6,300 more than FD!
It is clear that it is not entirely true that you are just getting back the excess money that you have paid.

If the price of gold goes up, your monthly rebate/hibah would proportionately increase even though the percentage is still the same, eg. 2% per month. It is like forced saving.

How can these company pay you such high returns?
It is from the 20% profit they automatically make when they sell you the gold at retail price because they buy it at spot price. The profit from the big difference, they buy some more gold at spot price and make more profit when they sell that 2nd round of gold to others at retail price, again making another 20% profit. It goes on..

As long as the gold company is doing gold trading and not taking deposits, BNM has no jurisdiction. The other reason where BNM can move in is money laundering. So the source of the money to buy the gold must be clear.

Who cares if the Fatwa Committee says it is non-Syariah compliant. As long as it is legal, the Islamic authorities can't touch even the Muslim investors because there is no punitive Syariah law governing such investments. It is just guilt on the part of the Muslims. But with such high returns, who cares! They are not stealing or robbing anybody unlike many of our Muslim leaders! As for non-Muslims, the Muslim authorities have no bloody right to interfere.

Don't you think it is a workable business model and not Ponzi? But to safeguard and reduce your risk in gold investment, refer back to my initial 4 precautions.

edited

This post has been edited by EddyLB: Aug 13 2012, 06:48 AM

You can buy gold at cheaper spot price rate, like from banks and bank gold investment but do you get returns every month? Bank gold investment is passive investment, ie wait for gold price to go up. How long to wait? What if the price of gold drops? It is obviously not attractive and the banks know it! That is why banks are giving higher interest rates for FD that are tied to the gold "investment".

By buying gold from a bona fide gold trading company, you are actively getting monthly returns regardless of stagnation or reduction in gold price as explained in my posting above.

Hope this explanation will reduce your frustration and suspense in waiting for an answer.

Now on the business model

Let's say spot price is $80
G buy at $80
Sell to me at $100
"Hibah" $2 a month for 10 months

So, I'm effectively buying at spot

But, I don't get to keep the gold...as many said, G is "safekeeping" the gold on my behalf

And I'm no gold specialist, I dunno how to authenticate gold

And even if G lets me have the gold should they close down, I DON'T WANT the gold...I can't eat gold... I have to sell it off to get cash, I can't carry the gold to my mamak stall and ask the mamak to cut 1mm away to pay for my roti canai

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Aug 13 2012, 01:05 AM

Hi

there is somthing wrong with your 10 month scenario....they dont give 10 months contracts. It is(at least it was) 6 months max before.
Essentially yoou are paying y0urself!

Only those silly do not see that......because Gennneva is comparing their prices with them jewellers! Smart.....

So much for their generosity!

Just to clarify ar bro - i ingat their "contract" was/is for 3 to 6 months only.
And whenever the contract ends, one has to pay again the new gold price (ie. market *120% to 130%?)?
Wouldn't that mean one keeps paying oneself?
Sorry ar - i'm a bit blur thus just clarifying the process flow and cost/rewards flow and seeking enlightenment

If this is true, buyer is paying extra 20% to get the 6% discount in 3months. That means (20-6)=14% goto genneva.
But genneva present it very nicely, by just focus on 2% per month, very smart indeed.

After 3 months, if buyer want to continue, he/she have to pay again and than kena slap one more time, another 14% lost.

The figure might not be correct fully, if anyone can chime in to correct me the figures that will be great.

The money from FD will be used as investment, thus there is return. How about the golds from Genneva? Still dunno where the interest from huh? Investment and ponzi is different.

Aiyoh....so pathetic. Selling things also so complicated. Have to pray hard the company don't bankrupt one

Like buying a LV bag. "Madam, you don't buy LV bag from shop ABC arr.....you buy LV bag from us very good one. You pay our price although 20% more, but we will give you back 2% every month. Then after 10 months, your buying price will be the same as other shops. Then after that you make money....". Have to wait 10 months only the price is same as I buy from the other shop ? If the shop go bankrupt before 10 months, then the LV become expensive

And like some of the forummers above pointing out, contract is 3/6 months only ? Guarantee renewable ? If the LV bag international price goes up, then I have pay to 20% above the incremental price again ?

Buying stuff also got risk and return --> is this not an investment scheme ?

This post has been edited by EddyLB: Aug 13 2012, 09:45 AM

Hah...

No matter what they call it ..interest, hibah, discount, gift, payback, cash-back, return, rebate etc.. it all works the same way, as long as the return is fixed and constant, it will still be considered interest, and subject to investment guidance by BNM. You are still buying overpriced gold, and get back only some of the excess money that you have already paid. The constant re-naming of the "fixed returns" remind me of this quote... since Pat likes to quote...

"No matter if it is a white cat (interest) or a black cat (hibah); as long as it can catch mice (victims), it is a good cat." .... Mao Zedong

This post has been edited by gark: Aug 13 2012, 09:57 AM

This is not a sales thread, please do not post any advertise type of post, advertise of service provided including contact.

At least sengih here took the trouble to seek clarification instead of jumping the gun and cluttering the wall with personal assumptions and judgements. So refreshing.

No, I'm not with Genneva management. Just a Senior Consultant who truly appreciate them for genuinely making a REAL difference; passionately with a heart of gold, enriching lives from all communities and all walks of life in Malaysia and abroad.

AND GENNEVA Malaysia is doing their part to caution the public too.
Take a look at their Community Service Announcements at their official facebook photo album: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3...63384286&type=3

This post has been edited by PatEagle: Aug 13 2012, 11:11 AM

If want to discuss, discuss it here, not link to others website.