It is actually not that difficult...IMHO. The below figures is approx for most gold investment with 'discounts', as I do not have their actual numbers, but the modus operandi is roughly as follow.

1. Sell gold at lets say 24% above market value. Take customer money.
2. Pay back 'interest' at 2% per month so after 12 months equal to selling price.
3. In the mean time use the gold price margin (24%)(free! ) money to LEVERAGE on gold options (call or put).
4. If gold price goes up, everybody happy, the company get returns from investment, the customer redeem back gold price at the purchase value (not the physical value) and earn 24%. Merry goes round again...and again...
5. If gold price goes flat or lower, the company do not lose money, maybe even earn if they have the right option (remember the money is free as a deposit from customer, in which the higher purchase value more or less equal to the interest), the customer redeem back gold, but is given actual delivery of physical gold . Or they can still give you redemption, but with 'other' people money, temporary until gold price goes up back.
6. Now customer is stuck with this physical gold in hand. If the gold price is flat the customer earns nothing as the 'loss' is covered by 'interest', but they might feel good that they 'earned' (because they hold the gold at the 'perceived' value) but actually did not. If the gold is lower, then when and if the customer sell the gold, they will take a loss in value (the higher price paid & the difference in value), but mostly will try to convince themselves to keep longer and earn more. The customer psychology will and does not register a 'loss' as they have both the physical & the 24% 'interest'

Basically in the above, the company is basically selling you a PUT OPTION on gold, in which you take all the risk and they have free capital to bet on leveraged derivatives on the market.

So you take ALL the risk, they take SOME of the reward, So you untung or they untung?

There are many variation of the above, mix some words (hibah!PHD!Complex!expert!), rotate the purchase price, interest and discounts around you get a new scam every day. So rahsia pecah liao ... how?

This post has been edited by gark: Jul 21 2012, 12:51 PM

Rich and successful investor don't just take any risk, they take calculated risk after doing proper due diligence.

Only naive, the easily conned and 'ikan bilis' investor simply dump money and 'see' if they can get return or not by taking blind risk, aka gambling.

See the difference between these two? Anyway the No1 rule for the world's most successful investor is 'Do not lose money'. So wether it is RM 10 or 10K or 1000K, we abide by those rule.

IMHO most of the forumer here belong to the 1st type and you are looking mostly for the 2nd type so this is not a correct forum for you to be. Maybe you should start promoting at those many HYIP forums.

This post has been edited by gark: Aug 9 2012, 07:04 PM

Hello there are something called audited report, if you really want to see how KFC, Poh Kong, Tomei, bank etc earn their money you just have to read through the report. It is explained very clearly in there, so all these nonsense about goldsmith earning money secretly etc etc. Bank suka2 charge interest rate etc...is all nonsense.

The way Genneva makes money is no trade secret. They sell gold at 30% above market price and then give you back the 'excess payment' as 'interest rate/hibah/whatever'. Then from the price arbitrage between the actual and selling price, they will invest as interest separately as interest free loan, probally into leveraged gold investment. The company have nothing to lose and bears no risk, but the customer bears all the risk if the gold price is lower and/or the re-purchase price is not equal to original purchase price. This is nothing more than Genevva selling the customer a put option with his own money and bearing all the risk, while the company gets away scoot free.

Like this kind of deal also got customers want to buy? A lot of naive greedy investor around...?

P/S Genneva got audited report or not?

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Added on August 10, 2012, 11:54 amInvesting in the same thing twice will not reduce your risk.. the risk stays the same. Invest in DIFFERENT investment will diversify your risk.

This post has been edited by gark: Aug 10 2012, 11:54 AM

Hmm that means Genneva is lying through their teeth. Hibah don't count as interest ah? Looks the like it, smells like it, sounds like it, but it is not IT.

Now gold price is falling.. see how long until the pyramid scheme can last?

This post has been edited by gark: Aug 10 2012, 12:25 PM

Again, if hibaah don't count as interest, then what is it ah??

LOL still beating around the bush eh, by insulting people rather than give a proper explanation? So lame.

So to counter my opinion, mind explaining what is the difference between 'interest' and 'hibaah'.

This post has been edited by gark: Aug 10 2012, 12:53 PM

Hah...

No matter what they call it ..interest, hibah, discount, gift, payback, cash-back, return, rebate etc.. it all works the same way, as long as the return is fixed and constant, it will still be considered interest, and subject to investment guidance by BNM. You are still buying overpriced gold, and get back only some of the excess money that you have already paid. The constant re-naming of the "fixed returns" remind me of this quote... since Pat likes to quote...

"No matter if it is a white cat (interest) or a black cat (hibah); as long as it can catch mice (victims), it is a good cat." .... Mao Zedong

This post has been edited by gark: Aug 13 2012, 09:57 AM

Why I am not surprised? The first warning sign of any pyramid scheme is the cash flow problem as it is about to collapse under it's own weight as the scheme gets too big or less people joins. These small tell tale problems will slowly emerge, like late payment, delayed payment, etc, combined with multitude of excuses/reasons etc. Very commonly seen in all sorts of scams.

Better get out while you can!

This post has been edited by gark: Sep 8 2012, 02:01 PM

Round 3 of Genneva defenders come already.. first 2 rounds gave up... now they can still repeat the same 'hibah not equal interest ' nonsense all over again. Buy overpriced gold and get 'hibah' every month is 'gold trading' business

Same old story that has been shot down 100 of times... still they come with same excuses...over and over again



Getting popcorn ready.

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Added on September 15, 2012, 11:44 amStop abusing the Syariah principals. Hibah is mostly used for 'estate planing' where you are suppose to 'gift' your assets to the inheritance.

Hibah and will are two important instruments in property planning according to Islamic law. Hibah is the grant of property that occurs during the life of a hibah provider, while a will is a gift of property that occurs after the death of a testator. Both of these instruments are encouraged in Islam, as if done properly and in accordance with the requirements of syariah, can prevent disputes and property squabble. Hibah and will can also help relatives who are in need. There is a perception that by employing hibah and will, a person actually goes against the testament of Islamic Inheritance Law (faraid).This is not accurate because both instruments are given their own focus and place in Islam.

First and foremost hibah cannot be a fixed amount a.k.a interest, otherwise it defeats the purpose of Syariah law. Second, hibah can be given to relatives upon death of trustee and family members in aid.

So in which point does Genneva gold's hibah meets these Syariah law?

This post has been edited by gark: Sep 15 2012, 11:48 AM

Pendapatan tak halal tu.. insaflah...

Yahya meriwayatkan daripada Malik daripada Abdullah ibn Dinar daripada Abdullah ibn Umar yang Umar ibn al-Khattab menyatakan, " Jangan kamu menjual emas untuk emas kecuali sama untuk yang sama. Tidak meningkatkan sebahagiannya atas sebahagian yang lain. Jangan kamu menjual perak untuk perak kecuali sama untuk yang sama, dan tidak meningkatkan sebahagiannya atas sebahagian yang lain. Jangan kamu jual dari barang yang ada keatas barang yang tiada. Jika seseorang meminta anda menunggu untuk pembayaran sehingga dia pergi ke rumahnya, jangan kamu meninggalkannya. Saya takut rama keatas kamu."

This post has been edited by gark: Sep 20 2012, 06:38 PM

Then don't talk to your 'investors' about the monthly hibah-lah.. just sell the overprice gold see who want to come and buy?

Ya, saya pun kesian kepada kamu ..... berapa banyak dosa mau tanggung? Hahahaha.

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Added on September 20, 2012, 7:15 pmChange company name again ah? Every year also change.. from samudra, genneva, genenva world ......etc. The name so all soooo bad reputation meh?

This post has been edited by gark: Sep 20 2012, 07:19 PM

Same s*it, different day. Instead to owning up to your responsibilities, you just let the company go bankrupt and transfer to another company and the investors take a 30% haircut. What kind of responsibility and trustworthiness is genneva showing? If it is a reputable company, they will compensate even if their associate company fails, many international company has done so. If a company have failed it's internal check and balance, why should the investors end up holding the bag while the directors/owners go scoot free? All is talk, until the Genneva SG investor are fully refunded, anyone who trust this company is a complete fool.

All this counter lawsuit is all stories, can produce a copy of the writ of summons from Genneva to the director? There are plenty of summon letter to Genneva SG though....



I hope the owners/directors all go to jail like what happen to Sunshine ...

This post has been edited by gark: Sep 21 2012, 04:14 PM

Yes prove that Genneva SG has issued a writ of summons to the director as you have claimed. As long as the music haven't stop, of course no lawsuits since you are still paying from the pyramid scheme. If stop.. prepare for 100's of lawsuits. That time, i really suggest you and pat lu, quickly 'wear grass' to china also.

This post has been edited by gark: Sep 22 2012, 09:56 AM

The rats already left the ship with the gold bars... Why do they care? Just close one company and start another one... Or maybe trying to reap more profit in MY operations before jump ship also...

Most probably the story of the manager embezzling the money is a cover story for an exit strategy.

Wow anyone noticed this? Genneva world is incorporated in March.. way before the Genneva SG stop paying their customer AND before the supposed director run away with all the money.

Anon me claimed that Genneva World was set up to take over the assets of the previous clients due to the problem with the director run away to 'protect' the customers. From the timeline looks like everything is per-mediated and planned for an exit strategy.

Also, Genneva Pte. Ltd and Genneva World Pte. Ltd have one of the SAME Singaporean director. Genneva Sdn Bhd and Genneva Pte Ltd have the SAME three Malaysian directors. Thus Anon me saying they are not related is not true, basically all of them are just the same bunch of people hoodwinking the general masses.

'Goldbeam' which is supposed to be the 'neutral' gold trader association, often praised by Pat Lu ( ), the chairman is one of the directors of Genneva and Genneva World. All of them are related, no body is neutral and the only thing they are after is your money.

Shame on them & their family! But don't blame them, blame it on the investor's greed.

This post has been edited by gark: Sep 25 2012, 06:11 PM

Ng Poh Weng... self proclaim Dato' ( ), chairman of Goldbeam, Boss of Pat Lu, Director of Samudra Gold Sdn Bhd (raided by BNM), Genneva Sdn Bhd (Raided by BNM), Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd, Genneva World Sdn Bhd, Genneva Pte Ltd (gone case already), Genneva World Pte ltd (new born baby).

Also the same is the Goldbeam vice chairman Marcus Yees and Chin Wai Leong (all also self proclaimed dato') is also directors of all the above companies...all sharks..



Really?

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Added on September 26, 2012, 10:19 amThis post has been edited by gark: Sep 26 2012, 10:19 AM

Good riddance, finally gave up eh? Maybe it's time for Genevva World MY to have exit stratergy also since the biggest supporter also cabut liao...

Non destructive can only test the surface, lately there are gold bars filled with tungsten which is virtually not testable unless use destructive testing...even experts are being conned.



The gold bar above is wrapped in REAL gold, and comes with full certificate and serial number. They use real gold bar, hollow it out and fill it with tungsten.

This post has been edited by gark: Sep 27 2012, 01:48 PM

Using reverse psychology and different tactic... pretend to be anti-golds scam while trying to slowly opinion here. Look at post 1&2 is anti scam but post 3 getting neutral...

Or either that they are sharing the same home/office etc...