Hi all Sifus and bros, I want to ask what is the different between stock and lighten crank pulley (same diameter and circumference) in FC and HP?

gain better response...better pick up/accelerate?

lost abit top speed

better FC if drive normally

How come will lost top speed arh?

lesser momentum

Don't know if I lost top speed, but the engine feels lighter, but after awhile, you will get used to it.

no pain no gain...

Yup, firsthand/Direct Experience is very good teacher in Life's lessons...
No gain something w/o losing something wan!

This post has been edited by zeone: Jan 15 2012, 11:27 AM

My top speed is intact
but definitely engine is lighter

any recommendation of brand for lighter crank pulley?

i'm driving gen 2.

all the way from the premium mythelogy, zerone, redline to cheaper jasma..
Me using redline (not too expensive yet not too cheap) for 2 yrs++, so far so good.. top speed remains but may need longer distance to achieve, esp when using lightweight rims..

i tot it will give better responds but lower momentum for top end..

I tot gain in both orh

no change in top speed if your engine powderfull ady...but if kancil 660 use it, no momentum loh

but i assume that the price for premium mythelogy and zerone will be very expensive?

thats why i mentioned premium

RM550 -i still can afford but as to value my money - i rather take zerone

means zerone over mythelogy?

perfect weight balancing is crucial to ensure right balance between tork and speed...they do with formula and actual test....not all maker of lightweight material do this. so choose the right maker is needed

How about with wira 4g15?

4G15 powderfull what

Want gain both response and top speed , must upgrade engine den

theory its like the HI Cam system , want Hi End , sacrifice low end . Want low end , sacrifice high end

same like exhaust system as well.

before this try change at 4g63 sohc engine (perdana sei) manual.. top speed kinda same, but engine respond a bit lighter..

this is to lighten the engine, good to reduce powerloss being transferred..should not lower the topspeed...top speed related to engine power, gearbox and drag

This post has been edited by xshiro: Jan 18 2012, 07:12 PM

how is mythelogy LCP ah?

Will light crank pulley lost top speed in 4g15 engine?

i would like to say nothing lost in speed for g15

Have been a happy user of myth lcp for years....first time installed,tak rasa apa apa.....
Then drive with five people in car,can feel liao. Same feeling u driving alone.
Even my wife who drive knows......its ilighter,but dont la expect tebabo power.

It won't lower your top speed, but remember as you go up in the revs and power, the lighter crank pulleys might not stand up to punishing use and if they do give way, well, your engine is screwed.

not that I'm against LCP but it does screw up the engine. search around and you will understand why.

LOL! You tell me?

I got mine from drex afew years ago. It got the ruber thingy to absorb vibration....
Just check recently,the rubber still sitting nicely. Marked with chalked,tested 190kmph, the chalk marking still same. Means no slip between rubber and pulley. U get wat u pay for.mno regrets.

This post has been edited by alpha33: Jan 21 2012, 08:32 AM

ah icic. thanks so much for ur feedback.

My myth since 2006 till now, running strong

What is myth? Any 4g15 users here with LCP?

Depends on what engine ... Not all engine use LCP well boom ur whole engine ... known many friends that use LCP dam many years and still strong running healthy dont just read reviews n judge LCP are not good . Dont judge a book by its cover yea ?

Mytheology lcp.
Lazy type in full...hard to spell...

Same. I also have source and owners having their engine jeopardized by LCP. As you've mentioned, it depends on engine. Well, i disagree. I would say it depends solely on the aftermarket LCP. An incorrect LCP size, weight and dampers may invite trouble. Again, I would like to stress, I have no grudge against LCP. I'm just creating awareness among users to be skeptic and becareful with aftermarket LCP. There are so many brands out there with some we've never heard b4. Some dodgy accessory shop will tell you, the lighter the better. If you're not sure, go with the reputable brands. saving a few hundred bucks can actually reduce the burden/stress on the engine.

Some reading materials.

http://www.bhjdynamics.com/downloads/pdf/t...Damper_Info.pdf
http://www.fluidampr.com/HOWITWORKS.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer

how the belt can slip??...

Is aerospeed crank pulley ok?

Belt slip when belt is in bad condition,or during rain water hits it,or pulley groove has become sharp after so many rotations.

But i mean the slip is the damper between the lcp. As u can see in ur photo,the black damper will twist,causing the outer pulley and the crankshaft one to run away. Once the damper give way,the outer pulley will drop out,and u have no more belt...

Its very normal in cars tat uses this kind of pulley ie mercedes.
Kereta jepun i not sure wat model uses it....i more interested in merc...

So u only read materials ? Have u tried using it technically ? Materials are easy to type out from keyboard warriors technically did u see the market yourself ? Jasma Crank Pulley are undersize and light and yes the lighter the better no wrong there from
those acc shop salesman . Jasma one has been cheap and cheerfull selling so well outthere . Dont juz read materials and create " awareness " . Theory are not always right . Fit in and check out the real thing and how many engine gone case with LCP ? Like one in a million news of it ? Lol

its ok. most LCP r balanced. jus some cheaper 1 more rough workmanship. anyway, till now i never heard any real life prob of belt snap / crank oil seal broken etc

ab d damping stuff, for low bhp car, kalo ada good la.. if dun got, tidak apa.... lol..

There's a reason they're heavy, it's because they act as dampeners so the engine doesn't rattle all the front bits to death. The lack of weight contributes to bearing wear and attached component wear.

Without the weight or the harmonic balancing of a good crank pulley, the car rattles itself to an early grave. That's why people who really really want the most power out of their cars go for an ATI performance or Ross Tuffbond crank pulley, note that these are even more heavily built than standard.

It's the same for lightened cam pulleys, for what little you gain, the fact the advance and retard settings are just held together by 5 shithouse screws without loctite in some cases is just a recipe for a blown head.

Best is stock sometimes

Yes. I read and meet with knowledgeable people to exchange knowledge. I open my mind and accept all convincing facts, I never dispel the fine truth that LCP brings in improvement. Theories may not always be right, but to prove a theory wrong, you need genuine fact to prove how the theory is wrong. Theories serves as a guideline. Just like how rules were set.

I trust, you never read the links I've posted. Those are general information on how crank pulley functions. there is no ill intention stating negatives on LCP.

ratio of 2 out of 6 accessories shop I've visited have knowledge on cars. Generally Most accessories shop salesman will just sell sell sell and sugar coat you with words of improvement assured. After all, it's nothing personal, its business. When you walk back and claim warranty on your wrecked engine, they will give you tonnes of reasons stating, your car is bad from the beginning, you expect we warrant you something sold so cheap for your engine?, we never promise to warrant your engine from the beginning, etc. Hope you will take their words with a grain of salt next time.

Note however, there are still a handful of reputable shops giving good pointers and directions on modding. It's not all lost & hopeless.

Technically, LCP was on my milestone list of upgrades. However, after learning bits and pieces around, I just took a big leap and increase my stock hp and torque with another option.

If you take your stock crank pulley and walk into a fabrication shop. they can lathe machine a much better aluminum crank pulley. Go for bulk, you can sell at a much cheaper price than jasma.

1 in a million still means there is a tendency of it to happen. You may say this now, but things will be different if you're that one guy out of the million.

*********************************************************************************************************

Lastly, you remind me of an old man whom I've advised to quit smoking due to health reasons. He told me the same thing. "Son, I've been smoking even before you're born. Look at me now. If smoking is deadly, I wouldn't have live up to this age. You won't understand cause you never smoke." That's how I feel now, having good deed but being hammered as a keyboard warrior

I have no intention on winning this argument or winning a fight. Neither do I want to deter people from installing LCP. I'm like empire23 here just to share some pointers. Good or bad is up to the general public to perceive. Depending on the next wave of comments, I may just remain silent to avoid any conflicts. Like the previous post, I do concur stock is still best.

On the side note, loctite is damn awesome, I've been using it on fluid joints and it never leaks.

This post has been edited by Vervain: Jan 25 2012, 12:11 AM

Whats with the rudeness mate?

People politely sharing info but you have this sudden urge to flame him and call names? Its not like he pulled this info out of thin air.

Did you even read the links he so thoughtfully posted before launching on your tirade? Come one day no one will share any knowledge on Lyn for fear of being ridiculed and flamed, and i will know exactly who to blame.

Just chill and take it as what it is, some friendly info sharing.

This post has been edited by dares: Jan 25 2012, 12:55 AM

ermm... action speaks louder than words? its been tested locally..

this matter already been discuss many many times around d world..i guess he kinda frust liao...lol.

again, those rubber thingy is good to have, takda also ok for small engine...btw, d metheology shows malaysia apa pun boleh..lol


u guys will b surprise dat stock crank pulley do cracks... aftermarket provide better material, t6 aluminimum yada yada.

edited:typo

This post has been edited by low yat 82: Jan 25 2012, 01:48 AM

Without theory, you cant understand how anything works..this will just lead you to taking your car to a shop, paying the guy up front for stuff you dont need or understand, go drink some coffee and come back once the job is done. Take your ride for a test drive later and achieve godlike speed in your head.
point :just because something sells, doesnt mean its good or useful. read : magnetic fuel saver yada yada..
My point is similar to vervain..ive got nothing against jasma or using an LCP, but before you go out there and spend money on a mod, you need to know the pros and cons and the best way to find out is by reading about it and asking in forums. Theory may not always be right, but you cant also go and buy every part out there just to test it and decide.

Dude, ive seen aftermarket "pro street" clutch covers which were supplied with allen screws..to quote you, 5 shithouse allen screws. Now thats gonna keep it all together eh?

Orh >.< i been using lcp for 2 yeard and my car has been half my track and daily drive car . Lcp has boomed my engine and it became Optimus Prime . Basicaly hks , m7 , Trd , works , arospeed , redline , mythelogy all can close liaw lor if its so bad ... And in world of performance modding without buying try and test it out trial n error u wont know which is best . U hoping people will share thier setup with u ? Lawl . Shoot me all u wan but.. remember that LCP are still
used worldwide by famous tuners and yah that 2 famous brands mentioned above heavier LCP i wanna see u use that in your car when air con is on . Track car an afford to use it cause they dont even have air con .

This post has been edited by Peekab0o: Jan 25 2012, 09:27 AM

Understood where you are coming from.

But the fact is shit happened to some who used LCP, so it's good to know that there is a risk, even if it's one in a million. Vervain did not shoot down LCP, he is merely pointing (in good faith, I might add) out that there is a risk, however slightly, to this particular upgrade, just in case others dunno about it.

If I am interested in LCP, I won't be put off by his information, but I will be glad now I am better informed and will be more cautious when selecting a LCP for my ride.

Not all aftermarket is gewd that's for sure. Not everything lighter is better. Good engineering isn't common.

Well if someone buys something liddat, the least that can be done is 2 titik aerospace grade loctite.


I've got a Ross rebuilt dampener in on my RB25DET running 13 PSI of boost. No problems with aircon mate, still cold.

If they made one for my 4B11T, I'd get it.

Trial and error is fine, but like Tesla's theory versus Edison's trial by error, I'm siding Tesla . I mean I've seen HKS lightened cam pulley adjustment run out due to fiddly screws, so just because it's branded doesn't mean it is good.

You may not have heard of other brands like Quaife, Pfitzner, BorgWarner, PAR, DBA, Alcon and so on, but they make good stuff. You don't need to be famous to make decent parts and doesn't mean if you're famous, you do.

since there is no LCP for my peugeot. do u know any workshop that can make one for me? head they cn clone the original LCP and make it lighter

stock original already Lcp? then buy new original one..hehe

I have heard of most of those brand except PAR
Some more uncommon brand:Buschur Racing,Bulls Eye Power,OS Giken,ATS,Full Race

PAR is Precision Automated Robotics, an Aussie company that makes MTs in Melaka.

OS Giken makes really hard clutches, a workmate of mine runs an R30 with an RB25DE with an OS Giken twin plater. Those buggers are on-off.

ATS has a lot of nice kit but Full Race and their manifolds....... ......

Either way, in regards to the LCP, really, what is the point unless you want to dampen something? If you can keep the dampening and balancing at the same level while losing weight, fine, good, but the reality is most of the time, you don't.

Behind the crankshaft you have the rotational mass that is the flywheel, the clutch and the whole damned car. In front, you have the aircon, alternator and so on. A reduction of a 2kg tops in just isn't going to bring out the beast in your damned car.

For the amount of money spent on the LCP, I can buy myself KFC and some minyak, go for a hard drive and set my tune correctly and still get more power. Malaysians are just in love with anything shinny when it comes to modding.

U were right ab d 2kg tingy. But d reduction means alot for puny engine..(dun expect too much though...lolol)

for engine powerful like urs, dampening d torsion force is d main reason, but for puny 4g15 d torsion force n vibration r soo...

LMAO.. behind the car is a booth full of shit and a 200kg subwoofer.

Another thing I dont get is this :

Wheel (before)
Power 96 hp (72kw) @5868 rpm
Torque 130 Nm @ 4173 rpm

Wheel (after)
Power 99hp (74kw) @6141 rpm
Torque 129Nm @ 4378 rpm

Well, shouldnt your HP be higher (obviously) at a higher rpm? My car makes more HP at a higher rpms without an LCP
In fact right up to 4500rpm, your stock crank pulley is doing a better job than a lightened dampened billetted forged titanium aluminium hybrid alloy crank pulley with a piece of rubber. (LDBFTAHACP + PR)

HKS japan sold LCP few years back even before malaysian know about it . so how a big company would risk ? as long the pulley is balance in some way how it could wreck ur crank ? wreak crank or crank oil seal my cause by improper instalation oil seal . when the oil seal is improper install it my cause the valve seal to worn out or the inner retaining wire in the oil seal may came off and scratch the crank hence crank damage and unrepairable oil leak .

---

Added on January 26, 2012, 4:16 pmso if using lcp could ruined ur engine so how about using lighten flywheel ? since it could effect the same way like the pulley ? some time the info u found on web aka information highway can be olso MISINFORMATION HIGHWAY .

This post has been edited by sinister_sid: Jan 26 2012, 04:16 PM

People don't want to believe that gaining power isn't easy. There ain't no magic pill for it. Even for example the air intake. You upgrade the air intake and for a while you get extra power, because more airflow means the system runs leaner and timing can advance to suit. But once the ECU figures out what you've done, 7 out of 10 times the bugger will downtune the car to rich, although the car will still be more responsive on the throttle because of flow velocity, all because ECUs are dicks.

Also some of these pulleys aren't the same size as stock most of the time. Meaning they underrun the components connected to the belt. That's shite.



I put poop in a box and got General Electric to put their name on it, does it make it any good? For example, among Evo X owners here, the HKS Hipermax is known as crap and so is the shit made by TEIN. They're both big names but most would go for the cheaper and better Eibach Federn kit or having the dosh, the Ohlins DFV. Brembo makes good brakes, but I'm trading them in for Alcon goodness.

Just because it is balanced doesn't mean it wont kill it. No balancing act is perfect. So there is always some vibration, now vibration is once thing, but as all engineers know when vibration hits the right note you have resonance, which is a form of harmonic that rattles bits to shitsville. That's why you also call the main crank pulley a "Harmonic dampener" for a reason. Issues won't show up right away, but increase wear and tear.

So why isn't the lightened flywheel in the same league as the LCP? Because the LCP itself must get rid of harmonics, the lightened flywheel has the springs located in the hub of the clutch to absorb any harmonics . Do you know why racing car with lightened flywheels and unsprung clutches have to have their hubs, screws, prop shaft and all have to be replaced regularly? Driveline shock

err... myth lcp is a 1 piece unit with rubber belt slip in the groove... if u got see properly laa...
if u say the rubber will twist, means the whole pulley can twist???....

flywheel has springs??... cannot brain bro... got picture??... sorry for my noobness...

Agreed on the lightweight crank pulley part
Not to mention normal drivability suffer(A/C Not Cold,Engine easier to stall etc)

this not a issue if the aftermarket lcp is same size with stock not those undersize . i installed a handful since i work as mechanic for a living

now i get it .
either u are the chief mechanic at pagini factory or team renault f1 chief development and u never seen local paliah scene that most were homemade brew recipe . sorry to degrading you

Nope lol. Engineer for oil and gas electrical, work with motors and generators of the biggest sizes. Projects include the Condamine power station with Siemens SGT series turbines and Allen Bradley VSD control system.

I've built a lot of pariah industrial rigs where I work, but no play play one, all must calculate banyak banyak especially when it comes to moving stuff lah. Deswai I no likely LCP, given bad dampening of lighter material, the enjin will goncang goncang. That's no good.

This post has been edited by empire23: Jan 26 2012, 10:59 PM

sure u master MOM, DOM, KDM & struc mechs subjects..

and jumping off baskets... unless he goes to work by heli.

Dampening the crank pulley is definitely a good thing, especially to absorb vibration, but in essence like what empire said in most of his posts, a lightened crank pulley at most shaves off 2kgs tops on a singular part which doesnt really make a significant difference on a mild or road spec car. dont get me wrong, 2kgs on a track car makes a shit load of diff, but those engines are balanced, blueprinted and stripped down after the race. Your crank and engine internals are not expected to last 100 000km as a regular street car is usually overhauled.

Its attached via a belt, even your crank has torsion stresses.

this will definitely become unbalanced once the springs lose their tensile strength..how often does this need replacing? im guessing very..

---

Added on January 27, 2012, 3:35 amThere is a significant difference between a mechanic and an engine builder. Also an engineer. I remember a mechanic guy in LYN said he came up with a brilliant design to fit an intercooler to the intake of NA cars.. In fact he was selling the kit and installation service to other car owners.

The purpose? to cool ambient air to ambient temperature

This post has been edited by ryan_hustler: Jan 27 2012, 03:35 AM

I have some basics in mechanical but most of it is on the job training and customers shouting at me they want XXXX MTBF and they want numbarrrssss........you learn veli fast when your ass is on the line

On a real race car, sure the 2kg lost with a lightened fly wheel, plus Delrin Acetal tensioners, carbon fiber covers, sodium filled shaved valves, ultra light timing chains, crashbox straight cut SMGs and so on all make a difference. But remember, most of our cars aren't race cars and I wouldn't want the reliability of one. I still want to go out and buy susu, go Giant, ayam goreng McDs, go 7-11 at Ampang Jaya beli berger and so forth.

The central hub of a clutch is usually replaced with the clutch. Usually comes in a kit. But you are right, they take a kicking and sometimes under the right circumstances and enough stupidity, they will crack

that flywheel is rather interesting..where can I get more information on it? Also is there any particular name for it?

It's just a removable hub for a cluch. Normally they aren't removable or even splined for that matter, but the picture is from a Nismo SuperCoppermix which I wanted to order for the 34.

Most everyday clutches will have a unsplined hub with springs.


Now compare it with Exedy's top of the line carbon clutch for race use only.

Look ma, no springs

ur flywheel so high tech miaa... what drivetrain u using???....

ok.. so did u send ur engine for full balancing and blue print??.. i'm sure as an engineer u cannot tolerate any defects due to large manufacturing tolerance right??....

That's a Nissan SuperCoppermix for the R34 la.

Me drivetrain, DSG style TC-SST, with fully reworkable torque limit maps accessed via a CobbTuning AccessPort.

Large manufacturing tolerances? I think I paid so much money for the Evo X precisely for the reason that they've already reduced the tolerances at the factory for me . Although I do have a set of Cosworth pistons and Ferrea valves lying around somewhere in the store waiting for slight grinding.

But the reality is that you can accept failure in tolerance somewhere, but not others. A road car should prize reliability and drivability above all. One could remove the aircon from their car and get a quite a few extra horsies, but I rather just get a car with more grunt than lose the aircon.

bad tensioning?

Drex, since youre here, can you shed some light on who Mythelogy actually are? Ive tried looking up information on this company and I cant find any.

The question is :
Who are/is mythelogy?
When was the company founded and by who?
Whats their pedigree or experience in manufacturing car parts etc..

Since EA autoworks supplies their crankpullies, I guess youre the best person to ask..

then care to explain how my engine is still running fine after 200,000km with a lcp installed, plug and play?

simple..

1) you own a workshop
2)ive never heard a bad review of your services means you know your shit and you do a good job.in fact before you even quota a price you always ajak ppl over to discuss what needs to be done and have a look at ur workmanship.

do you dare vouch for the quality of products you dont carry or the services of any other workshop?

well...... i'm using mytheology lcp on my sic bi(th.....

I still dont get it ? ur answer looks more like shoe licking and butt polishing unker maddriver . i tot u earliar said lighten crank pulley will destroy crank .
and i believe maddriver sold many of these and install on totally standard engine without any1 race prep and harmonic balancing . care to explain ?

lol.. i dont anything from kissing his ass, just speaking my mind. I dont have a problem with a lightened crank pulley, or a balanced lightened crank pulley. The problem is :

tons of aftermarket parts with no history or proven RnD
some are undersized, some are lightened, some lightened and undersized, some with harmonic balancer, some with dodgy looking rubber damper
The question is, do you want to take the risk of running your car with a product with no history or proven RnD or engineering skills?

Who are mythelogy? try googling them, no history..maybe its a proper Engineering house with tons of credentials and racing designs under their belt, but think about it..if they did, im sure it will be plastered all over LYN, ZTH, have their own wiki etc..

Who are Jasma? http://jasmajapan.com/index.php website is jasmajapan, parts made in pahang?

maddriver can use it in his "stock" wira/satria end of the day he owns a workshop, so if his car gets f***ed, no big deal. Same story with drex, but I got nothing against them. In fact I respect their contribution to providing knowledge in an open forum for discussion. If you followed drex and guans fotopic last time, you will know these guys are very serious and smart in what they do. BUT i will never go to their workshop because I had some bad experience there. End of the day no hard feelings, maddriver and drex business are still going strong irrespective of what I say or my clientele. You just gotta decide for yourself if you wanna put your trust in watever product in the market.

I can honestly say im not a car modding god. but ive worked in a workshop and I have a very strong engineering background. As a part of this online forum, im sharing my knowledge and thoughts, bottom line is its your F**king car and money. I always answer questions as unbiased as possible. Should I change wira to rear disc brake? i tell you the pros, the cons you f**kin decide. Thats what brains are for, to be used

edit : typo

This post has been edited by ryan_hustler: Jan 31 2012, 11:20 AM

even if i own a workshop and my car gets fu(ked up, it is a big deal...... spare parts don't grow on trees...... still have to buy, still have to fix. i don't blindly put parts on my car. got to be confident with the design before i test it out. can't say much about that "j" brand as i have not used it, but mytheology's design is exactly what i was looking for in a lcp. as for googling, remember the days before the internet? how did colin chapman start out? of hks for that matter. these all started out small, good shit spreads really fast, so there.......

Guys, Stick with the topic, don't go personal and start calling out names. Dragging down workshops is not the game here.

Well wish to share my thoughts on LCP. For this purpose, I will be speaking from a point of view of a consumer and as a layman who is not as highly educated as you.

I am personally using a mythelogy LCP. To me, the problems you outlined are, with the greatest respect, highly irrelevant and unfounded when it comes to LCP per se. To begin with, the market is filled with so many labels / brands of any product of a similar nature. Regardless of whether it's an aftermarket LCP / exhaust / intake / or any other aftermarket performance parts, certain brands will boast about its long history and/or proven-dyno. That is how the market works, when there is good business opportunity, there will be competition wherein different business entities strive to distinguish their products from the rest. In this regard, the consumers will be spoilt with choices.

Now, you pointed out that there are tons of aftermarket parts with no history or proven RnD. If you ask me, I don't give a damn as to the history of any given product. When I am deciding between different brands, the utmost consideration in my mind, would be these, 'are they effective, do they work, would it serve my purpose?'. I would ask people whom I deem trustworthy and do my own little research before making my end decision. In other words, the 'history' or the lack of it, will not be crucial. Afterall, we are interested in the present and not the past. Most consumers wouldn't be bothered if any brand has a long history, what excites them are innovation, something which could improve their current station, for whatever it is. Hence it is not uncommon for business to fall despite having a long history, when you cannot keep up with innovation, you're just out of the race- simple. On the other hand, you may have a 'good' history but it can all be ruined overnight. Therefore I am of the humble view that a long line of history or a lineage which can be traced back to Alexander the Great, is not an issue, what more, a problem.

As for proven RnD, I don't know to what extent you mean. When you talk about RnD, are you comparing aftermarkets RnD to the amount of RnD done by car manufacturers? If yes, it's hard for most aftermarket players to compare with major car manufacturers. Afterall, both their focus doesn't cross path in the strictest sense of the word. In any event, most of the aftermarket products are fitted and tested in their own way before making their way into the market. Unless the products are sold by those 'fly-by night' company, a genuine business will not risk ruining their reputation and subjecting themselves to product liability action. Hence, this is also not much of a problem. If this can be perceived as a problem, then I would say that this problem is evident everywhere - many unscrupulous businesses sells all sorts of products which poses safety hazard, be it food, electronics, furnitures etc. Hence the concept of 'caveat emptor'. It's widespread. Something that is understood without having to be brought up.

It amuses me when you talk about googling mythelogy and wiki. For me, if they have wiki, then good as I can gain more info, if none, would that be a problem? Seriously, there are good stuffs or I should put it, 'hidden gems' out there which doesn't have wiki or history. Hahah, seriously, who cares about having wiki or history? I think goodwill is what one should look for rather than wiki or history. My apologies if you hold wiki or history in high regard, cause I feel that it's an irrelevant consideration.

To your question, 'do you want to take the risk of running your car with a product with no history or proven RnD or engineering skills?'.
Well, I'd say that modding car is all about taking calculated risk. Normally one mod their car the best they can in their own way and within their own budget. Some products don't work, some do. We don't know for sure which will work or which exhaust will give the most gain etc. What we can do is ask around and research. As said earlier, most consumers doesn't care about history or proven RnD etc. They are mostly sold when a particular item is proven to give certain % of performance gain and/or certain improvement in drivability, and that improvement and/or gain will not be harmful to the engine. Again, prior to the mod, consumers would never know for sure as they can only base their decision on dyno charts and representation of the salesman, and then confirm it with their own dyno run.

Speaking from my own experience, I have installed an extractor. The extractor has a wiki? No. Has a history? No. Price wise - ok. Quality wise - ok. Feedback from other buyers - good. With that, I decided to install the exhaust. Was satisfied with the performance gain as shown on the dyno chart. So to me, it works and a risk worth taking. Even with that, perhaps there may be other unknown exhaust which performs better?

As for the Mythelogy LCP, i couldn't find the wiki too, nor any history. But I heard relatively good reviews and some bad ones. Decided to get it. Enjoyed slight improvement in driveability, as for reliability, will see how it goes. Risk taken? Yes. Satisfied? Yes. Is that a problem? Perhaps no. No Wiki? Who cares?

Well yeah, that's my thoughts. I also feel that if you're scared of this and that, then don't mod anything. Secondly, if you're concerned with wiki, just remember that it's an online encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Thirdly, if history of performance parts are important, don't keep holding on to past glory(ies).

My humble two cents.

Well said and well written.. i honestly appreciate it

back to the context of LCPs, why do I or others place RnD and proper engineering on a high pedestal when anyone can make a good performance part? Simple, and let me take you up on your extractor story.
I have reasonable welding skills and I previously handmade a turbo manifold out of high grade,heavy gauge buttweld fittings. Was it hard? very. Did it work? perfectly..in fact it was neater and i put in a considerable effort in calculating the fluid dynamics of exhaust gases in an effort to maximize scavenging effect. After roughly a year and a half, a small leak appeared in the weld joint and started leaving toxic exhaust gases. I check my engine bay regularly and diagnosed the problem and fixed it. Speaking to a few other friends, they have purchased aftermarket extractors which had similar leaks and they brushed it off. This is serious shit. If you breathe in the toxic carbon monoxide gases over a prolonged period of time in a confined environment, you will DIE..no doubts, no second chances. Therefore should there be an importance in choosing a quality extractor from a cap ayam one? I would say yes..

What would the average lifespan of an engine be? Lets say 100,000km of hard driving before being overhauled. thats roughly 5 years give or take. Buying a half baked poorly designed part for instant gratification would not justify the possibilities of something going wrong. How would an unbalanced crank react spinning at 6000rpm? Engine malfunction? I can life with that..Could be worse.. does anyone care to educate the general public of these problems that may occur? Ask a mechanic how to increase your HP, he will say get a stroker it, janji laju..what are the side effects? Tada punya, saya sudah buat untuk banyak kereta..modifying is not something you wanna take on without proper research, reputable products and sincere mechanics

Ive seen engine blocks with holes the size of a cigarette box because a bolt worked itself loose and shot out of the block..if it carries enough force it can go thru your firewall and kill you..it could hit a pedestrian and kill him or her..your car could sieze and hit another car, a motorcycle or a pedestrian. I find it rather irresponsible to say who cares when your decisions affect innocent unrelated people. no RnD? who cares! no QA? who cares! no QC? who cares!

I guess its all fun and games until someone takes a chunk of 6000rpms worth of poorly designed crank pulley in the face. would you still care then?

Use a product for a few months and everyones a brand ambassador. Why do we need quality, research, design, maths,physics,engineering when Muthu my trusty metalworker can turn a chunk of steel into a car part? Who cares? Malaysia boleh

i installed the pulley at 230+k km..... my engines now close to 330+k km...... still good, never changed anything on the bottom end yet......

brand ambassador? no, just sharing my experiences...... i don't get paid......

Speaking of history and reliability, I am not sure if I should take out the 7-year old Mythelogy LCP in my 170k km car to try to make some damage on it. I too don't like the fact that I can't sell more than once to the same guy. Proton so smart, the vendors are still making money selling replacement crank pulleys to the old sagas/iswaras.

---

Added on

Interesting. Come, lets talk about that openly, shall we? First, start helping me to recall who you are.

---

Added on
Some how, that sounds to me, as if, you think you are the only educated guy in the forum. Good to have self-confidence. I admire that.

This post has been edited by drexchan: Feb 18 2012, 01:14 AM

Hmm.... It would be interesting to know how do u calculate the scavenging effect on a TURBO manifold when we're expecting the turbo manifold pressure to be positive due to the restriction of the turbine fins. Unless ur turbine sucks in exhaust rather than the turbine wheel is recovering the energy and heat from the exhaust... CFD..?

Bro, actually The best tubular manifolds cracks in time... Had a Full race imported... But still cracks after 2 years...
U can know it from here.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarre...ength_manifolds

And also, u're talking about confined space... Not sure how do you define confined space with CO. In your cabin..? Ur leaking exhaust would be blended into the atmosphere before it even reaches you firewall. Needn't to talk about it entering your cabin. Worry more on the CO2 u are exhaling every seconds reducing the O2 concentration. Even then, The Old Japanese women and a young girl that was trapped in a TOYOTA Mark for 2 days inside a non running car sealed by water were still breathing.

Sorry I don't mean to be rude. I apologize in advance...



Meaning to say the best would be leaving the engine as stock. Cause the best machines available in town for balancing a crank is the factory itself... Perodua uses 16 process with different machines to process a raw cast into a balanced crank. Same goes to Proton. But though the crank was well balanced, but the sad thing is, the pistons and rods aren't.

BTW, CNC billet cut aluminium has the least imbalanced possibility. Well, don't shoot me for this. This is what Fidanza(being one of the best aftermarket flywheels brand) claimed in their certificate of purchase.



I've know of the danger of broken flywheels going through firewall due to the momentum of the high speed rotation. That's why FIA/NHRA rules says it's necessary to install scatter shield. But of course there are possibilities of conrod flying out too... Seen one on my frend's drag car during his launch at SDB.

Most of the engines blocks with holes caused by conned rods were caused by a few things.

1) Hydrolocks aka engine masuk air. There was a post somewhere on a Stock GEN2. Search around.
2) Over rev without proper engineering assembly/parts/torque/etc.



Haha.... That would sure be painful...

This has to go back to the demand and supply. How would poorly made JXXMA products survives if there's no demand. In fact, they have never claimed their parts have quality. It's back to the customers that kept looking for cheaper and cheaper stuff. Imagine, so many complains on JXXMA product and they are still surviving.... Simple, the appreciation of engineering has longed be forgotten... Price matters more... Maybe not for you and me... But for the majority of the market.

Cheers bro... have a nice day.

Love using my Mythelogy LCP....even with bigger A/C compressor, it still feels ok. At least 90% of the load was 'dispersed'

For me as long the LCP is balanced & dampened is more than good enough.

wah !! speed2horison mali liaw . lolz
@ryan hustler u still havent answer my question , i only see alot of yapping and barking , and my older question i ask earlier why hks , cusco , knightsport , gfb , skunk 2 racing , aem , sells lcp ? no 1 answer me , instead i got a flywheels with spring , why does this big shot aftermarket made aftermarket lcp if its a risk ?

---

Added on February 18, 2012, 5:50 amwah !! speed2horison mali liaw . lolz
@ryan hustler u still havent answer my question , i only see alot of yapping and barking , and my older question i ask earlier why hks , cusco , knightsport , gfb , skunk 2 racing , aem , sells lcp ? no 1 answer me , instead i got a flywheels with spring , why does this big shot aftermarket made aftermarket lcp if its a risk ?


This post has been edited by sinister_sid: Feb 18 2012, 05:50 AM

i want to buy and try out mytheology LCP just for the sake of that additional rubber dampener also cannot since they stopped producing for iswara model

waaa so many things that i kenot brain here. so long story short, change to lcp if you want the engine to shake shake and goes kaboom and pew pew ka?
sorry i is veli the noob.
so best is use stock and dun modifait the car?

Custom made