Thank you TF and others for contributing so much infor, awareness and understanding on nitrites . Although I been involve in BN for eight years all these are new to me . TF must have done lots of research and so willingly share them with us. TF weather is great in KK. Take time off be my guest , come climb your mountain. Cheers.

we can have all types of treatment to reduce nitrite n nitrate but unless the consumers willing to buy broken nests instead of just want only the full cup nice shape....at the end nests still contain n n n one....we all know how nests are been ship to china......

from my minimal knowledge with ozone ( i m newbie in nests processing, do correct me if i am wrong) :

- Ozone is 3000 times more germicidal than chlorine. in europe, they already use ozone instead of chlorine to disinfect water as chlorine is harmful to human. and now a lot of food processing plants are using ozone for both food disinfectant n preservation.

- it eliminate nitrite n nitrate and kills bacteria such as e-coli.

i use it in nests cleaning as it is cheap to get,less than rm100 a unit. we used it to disinfect all cleaning tools, table n etc. then we used it in nests cleaning stages.

- during the soaking n brushing of raw nests.
- during soaking when we pick tiny feathers from nests
- during soaking to shape the nests.

as just few minutes of exposure to ozonated water is required to do the job....why not?...and ah ma n ah sum in kampung is doing it...hehehe....talk about technology transfer n how fast our ah sum is learning...

Thanks Ben. Will certainly take you up on the offer eventually.

Any information is for the betterment of our industry. After all we have invested billions in this, I am only doing my tiny bit as contribution.

Collectively, with all of us pooling all our resources together, we should be able to see ourselves through this current crisis.

I have squirrels making homes at the roof top of my stand alone BH. They can't climb up the BH external wall from ground because the first 10 feet from ground level are smooth surface. So they climbed thru the only power cable attached to the BH's external wall at second floor (above the 10' smooth wall). In order to prevent the squirrels crossing via the power cable, I use 2 x 1500 ml empty drinking water bottles, make a hole at the bottom and run the power cable thru the hole. If squirrels were to walk thru the rolling bottles, the bottles will roll to either side due to imbalance. But some acrobatic trained squirrels still managed to speed thru the rolling bottles. So I add on lube grease on all surface of the roller bottles and it seemed effective enough to deter the squirrels crossing thru the power cable. Now I'm searching for fake plastic snakes to act as a scarecrow for additional deterrent. Already searching for the fake snakes at most toys departments in KL but to no avail Any one knows where to find one ??



This post has been edited by aeiou228: Mar 28 2012, 03:53 PM

Read about Ozone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone

as can be read from the above, Ozonated water may or may not be effective for the sterilization of EBN, many specific conditions apply which the layman may not be able to fulfill. It is probably good under controlled factory conditions.

Ozone on nitrite will produce nitrates. Neither is a problem anyway.

Ozone can disinfect water but the water(treated) does not have disinfecting properties and will therefore not kill any bacteria.

Ozonated water cannot be stored and it's disinfecting properties lasts for only a few minutes.

If Ozone is effectively used on EBN the EBN will become oxidized. We do not know what properties will change(taste, color texture etc.) Someone should experiment by dipping EBN in fresh hydrogen Peroxide or using a gas chamber with ozone. Report the findings.

I think for the home cleaner, boiling water does the job effectively.

Hahaha, I remember that I have heard that someone did place a dummy tiger in his plantation to scare away monkeys and the report said that it worked. and not only monkeys but human being also were scare to venture there, too. Those who have oil palm plantation should use the "tiger" method as I heard that many thieves are stealing oil palm in motorcycle and small cars and one car full can fetch at least few hundreds.

Maybe, your snake will do the same the same.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Mar 28 2012, 04:57 PM

Any sifus here lately send any EBN to HK? My friend wants to buy some just making sure if I fedex it our kastam won't confiscate it or anything.

We all know that:
Nitrates (NO3) are naturally occurring compounds that are created when plants break down nitrogen. When Bacteria attack nitrates and breakdown into nitrites.
Nitrates naturally found in green leafy vegetables and root vegetables. Drinking water also have nitrates and meat for the table also have nitrate or nitrite.
To prevent poisoning and bacteria growth, we used nitrites and food without nitrites may contain bacteria or poison that are harmful to man so ever thought of that birdnest without nitrites can kill??
So, if food products and birdnest product stated that “without Nitrites” be safe or not to take cos Nitrite can be easily wash away but some of the poison and bacteria are not so friendly.
So, I need to ask the expert here, to buy birdnests without nitrites and worried about bacteria and poison or to buy birdnests with nitrite and rinse and dilute it; which is better?
Still, I can’t understand the present crisis is all about of something that has been eaten for centuries and suddenly becoming unsafe for consumption and have you ever heard of anyone dying of nitrites from eating birdnests and what’s if someone die of eating nitritefree birdnest due to bacteria or poisoning; would it start a new round of trouble for the birdnests?
I maybe stupid but 1+1=2, that I know and how come I still don’t understand?

Coming to export problem………China insist on the chip reference on all EBN exported to China but 90% of these nests are illegally exported anyway. The chip are to trace the source of the nests and will the chip help. Answer is “NO” cos even with chip on the BH will not always mean that the nests are from the BH. Middlemen buying the nests may has one BH and buying from other BHs without chip will be cheaper and just by using his chip, he can export the nests. So, what for the chip and I heard that it’s the Health Department requirement of the Chip and not the V Department . How the Health Department becoming interested in EBN and my guess must be the money? If EBN only worth RM100/Kg then no authority wound be interested in EBN at all.

Just last week, the valuation Department Officers came to visit me and ask about how many Kilo of nests can be collected per year for the building. If I am not mistaken, the new Assessment Fee will go up according to the value of the nests and no more due to the location or rental received like before.
Good Gracious, as if we have no problem at hand and more and more Government Departments will be visiting us soon and you can mark my words.

hahaha....in che wei tou shu, when u see money star (lu chuen), u will always have to be careful as both back (chien yang) n front(tou lou) have bad stars follow. we have blasting the sounds so loud unrealistically to govt that we make few billions a year from nest income, what u going to expect? but the reality is, the few billions are in fact make by the few dozen pioneers tht been in this industry for at least twenty years...hahaha...90% of us still survive with some penny after paying the bank installment every month...but at least we are been recognized and published in today newspaper that our govt acknowledged that bird's nest industry is contributing to malaysia economy and they need to do something to help us just liked they helped the aquacultural industry when faced with export problem in europe....hope the association cut the newclips and keep it.

the culprit all the while is sodium nitrite, and we all knows why it exist in those nests.....for fun to talk about reducing nitrite only...the real situation...hahhaha...

ozonated water have about 15minutes lifespan..dipping it for even 1 minutes will do the job when the nests are in the right wet condition...but then if u want the nests to have smells...hahaha...can always do the traditional way....yuk....hahaha...

Coming to License for BHs, so far no many States adopt the GP1 and allow the BHs to stay legally but some districts do imposed temporary Licenses to BHs to stay.

Why the temporary Licenses and the excuse is that they haven't come out with the GP1. So, as long as they don't issue you licenses, they will still be collecting temporary license fee and these temporary licenses aren't cheap either; Pekan charges RM600 per floor and if you have 3F, you pay Rm1800 just for temporary license and many BHs that didn't pay are still around.

So, to pay or not to pay. Not paying may find your BHs demolish but so far after 3 years of paying temporary license, no news or sign about the real license and what is the reason for the issuing of temporary license or just a Majlis way to get money.

Hi aeiou224,

Thanks for your story about the squirrels (by the way, do squirrels eat chicks or birds? I think maybe they do eat eggs) and how you go about preventing them from getting to your farm; you method with the rolicking water bottle and the use of grease is clever indeed. As to the rubber snake; I think nowadays, you should be able to find such "toy" at low market shops/supermarkets or pasar malam; I think city kids no longer play with such toys. Try rural or outskirt areas instead of KL.

I am still grappling with my problem with the shrew(s). The cage I set was tripped but no prisoner. I had since placed 3 mouse traps deep inside the nesting areas and I see the blue poison were still consumed. I had checked the traps one day after and no trap was sprung....

The poison could be consumed by the dung beetles that are very abundant in swiftlet houses. Since these are insects, it won't kill them.

The mouse traps are easily sprung because the shrews and ground squirrels will very often jump around the cage before entering so setting the trap off whilst they are outside.

very ripe mangoes or bananas with worms in them will attract both shrews and ground squirrels. Inject the fruit with an insecticide called ' Hor Lin Tong ' or Furadans. both these are very poisonous to humans , vegetable farmers use these poisons to kill all worms and insects. Available at farming supplies shop, ie seeds, fertilizers, chemicals etc. Always use gloves and throw the gloves away after use.

Toy snakes will keep them away for a few days before they find out it is fake.

Fake Tigers in plantations, not a chance. You will attract more people who will be looking to hunt the tiger for it can fetch much more than stolen oil palm bunches.

Hi, TF,

Tiger hunters and oil palm thieves are two different group of people.; Tiger hunters are rich men as they own gun and they don't go for oil palm which are for the poorer group who had spend all on car or motorcycle but can't afford the high petrol these days...but wanna show off to GF.

But the idea of fake tiger is just for experiment cos the newspaper said that it worked for the guy who used the method to scare off monkeys so I just wanted to know if it really work and if someone here did try out and work. So, why not cos it's cheap, environment friendly and no animal ( mind you that many of these predators are protected species also) will need to be killed to save our fortune and future.

Many here must have seen dead owls, snakes and others on high voltage electrical fence surrounding the BH...but the main predator(M) haven't been seen dead.

---

Added on March 31, 2012, 2:09 pmI have seen and encountered shrews. Few years ago, there was a shrew in my shop and we trapped it with a cage mouse trap. Now, a mini market next to my shop has shrews.

Thing that I found out was shrew moves fast and straight like a train and I believe that shrew must be almost blind and they move fast but able to avoid corners only at the last second so catching one, you must be very fast............yes! if I am not mistaken, I did used burned cooked fish head as bait.


This post has been edited by West Wing: Mar 31 2012, 02:09 PM

Ha ha WW, you'll be surprised how many village people are hunting for Tigers once the news is out. Each tiger can easily fetch RM 20k for the hunter, RM30k for the middleman and I dare not speculate how much the exporter gets.

Each pangolin(scaly anteater) fetches RM200+ per kg. Wild boar about Rm50 for a large boar

Poaching is so very rampant in Malaysia as it is easier than working and the money is also much better. Our Govt issued RELA members with shotguns so that they can poach wild animals every night.

Shrews and ground squirrels can acquire a taste for small animals and eggs so they can cause havoc in a BH. Poisoned bait is effective and it'll remain active for months. Plus factor is that poisoned bait also attracts wasps which sometimes nest in the top floor of BHs.

...............................................

Any news from Dato Beh ?

I believe Dato gave a press release that 30ppm of nitrite has been agreed upon between Malaysia and China. Unfortunately I don't read Chinese papers so cannot confirm.

Thanks Tuck Fook for the advise of using Furadan.
I had tried the cage trap which was sprung but no prisoners and the 3 snap traps had been inside the nesting rooms without being sprung. If I am after rats, they would had been caught in the cage or killed by the snap traps already; I think the shrew(s) is very cautious and wily...

There are few beetles in this farm even though there are several hundred nests probably due to a combination of periodic cleaning up of guano plus the sparring use of Fendona. When I first use the big blue poison; the phantom menace loved it but while they are still being consume, more of them are left... I am thinking maybe the poison are taking a toll on my unwelcome visitor not instantaneously but over a few days.

I had since went up today to block all gaps of the rear iron door which connects to the circular staircase of which I think the shrew(s) might came from. I will keep the use of Furadan as a reserve tactic when all else fail as I do not like to mess with lethal poison... heard that watermellons are full of Furadan and we should avoid eating them.

West wing's observation of such shrews as being possibly blind is spot on as my sister had a troubling experiences with such pests at township in KL. I don't think the pest(s) is my farm is a squirrel at all but the blind or almost blind variety of shew; my sister said that they were very smelly...

As to the use of toy tiger... I think we give too little credit to wild animals as to their level of intelligence. Monkeys are among the smartest animals and it is very strange to think the use of a toy tiger can scare them off. Maybe a robotic tiger that can make some movements and emit recorded tiger roars might be a possible deterrent but an insipid toy tiger... I don't think so... Maybe firecrackers fired with lastik might be a better idea.

http://www.theborneopost.com/2012/04/02/ch...ests-from-msia/

http://www.chinapress.com.my/node/306780

http://www.sinchew.com.my/node/242209?tid=1

but exporter mus provide farmers info & follow all tis,,,

This post has been edited by kohloh: Apr 2 2012, 10:59 AM


Attached thumbnail(s)

Just in time for the silly season

Sorry, I did phone up a Dato on the matter on export as all are aware of it now and that is our PM was in China and the Chinese part has agreed to 30ppm and make it into a standard and will incooperate into Law...and we may be able to export in during one month time.

The only matter is that all nests exported shall be processed nests and no longer unprocessed nests and the Dato told me that in his view, this is the better solution and Malaysian shall control our own future in EBN.

All I can do is to cross my fingers and hope for the best. After all, many buyers are underwater nests into China anyway............. Only if the authorities make it easier to become a legal exporter for the nests.

And ...if it's the truth and confirmed so, then there will be no processing plant in China and the Chinese in the trade may want to buy processing buz or JV here to process nests to send back to China...hope I did get this right?

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 2 2012, 01:06 PM

I recently had some nests processed by a local EBN processor.

The nest came back very damp weighing in at the same as when I sent the raw, dry unprocessed nest, and also full of ants.

After much work getting rid of the ants and drying the nest out, there was a loss of 30% in weight.

The cleaned EBN was tested then for Nitrates and Nitrites and the shocking result was 55ppm nitrates, 270ppm nitrites.

As a control, I had tested a batch of the nests before cleaning and the result was 50ppm nitrates, 47ppm nitrites.

I then put a batch of cleaned nests into boiling water twice and then sent that for testing. The result was 15ppm Nitrates, 33ppm nitrites.

Now, 10 days after the boiling water treatment, I tested the same batch with similar results, no increase of nitrites.


I think I can conclude that the processor did not observe simple hygiene and sterilization procedures. The wet nests returned allowed the bacteria to increase the nitrite levels phenomenally.

Yes, I too concur with you that wetness do cause nitrite level to increase and all processed or not are ship wet to prevent breakage. So, how to solve this or are we going to add preventive chemical into the nests?

More than a year ago, I was in China and a EBN processing factory owner told me that he can help me to take my nests to China from Malaysia but at least, 50KG and he will deliver to anywhere in Guangzhou processed and at the same weight....without any fee or service charges.

I was surprised and asked him how he make his money, he will take off my hand in Malaysia dry nests and would give me same amount of processed wet nests in China with all certifications and documents if required.
I still believe that he must have exchange the nests inorder to make profit as we must also take into account for losses from cleaning nests...or that he must have added additional weight to the nests.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 5 2012, 04:58 PM