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 Patch 1.4.2 PTR Notes, EMP got nerfed.

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FLampard
post Nov 9 2011, 12:28 AM

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QUOTE(dishwasher @ Nov 9 2011, 12:21 AM)
1. Stalkers are meant to sit in the back? What?

2. Marines are squishy, yes. I wouldn't call Marauder's squishy, nor Siege Tanks. If you bring pure Marines to fight an army with HTs in it, guess what? Sucks to be you. And if you can't micro Marauder's out of storms, guess what? Really sucks to be you.

3. If a Protoss unit loses 50 hp, that's 50 hp that is lost forever. We may regen shields, but we sure as hell don't heal hp damage. Come back when medivacs and SCVs can't heal/repair. Also, Protoss are supposed to be the race with pricey but sturdy stuff, so you'll forgive me if I wonder why you're harping on the fact that Terran units have less hp than Protoss ones.

4. EMP may not kill anything on its own, but it sure helps make killing Protoss a lot easier. Come on, don't tell me dealing 100 dmg to ALL units hit by EMP isn't good. Damage done is damage done, regardless of whether it kills or not.

5. Again, why are you sending pure Marines to a tier 3 fight? What, you didn't know you could make other stuff? Oh ok.

6. Again, damage done is damage done.

7. You do know that there's this whole warp in cooldown thing attached to warping in units right? What, we aren't supposed to add that to the calculation? Not this retarded argument again? Please? Also, if a ghost runs out of energy, its still a pretty useful unit, doing decent damage to light units. HTs with no energy are about as useful as critters on the maps. That is why HTs can combine. Take away the ghost's ranged attack and then you can talk about combining 2 of them into some weird Siamese mutant monster.

8. Marines to a tier 3 fight. Bringing Marines to fight the unit designed to counter them. Come on, you're making me cry. And why on earth are you EMPing probes? You can friggin shoot them if your ghost is in range to EMP, geez.

What do you mean Protoss aren't punished for building anything? Last I heard, the deathball is (ironically) dead. Anything the Protoss army can build, the Terran army can counter. Lots of Stalkers? Get Marauders. Lots of Immortals? Get Marines. And to answer your question: Ghost counter's the entire protoss army, and Vikings counter the entire Protoss air fleet, plus Colossi.
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i thought not so long ago ppl said that marines are the most OP units? so why not? since they are so overpower who needs tier 3?

radkliler
post Nov 9 2011, 12:31 AM

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QUOTE
Here's a few fun facts about Protoss.

1. WRONG. Most protoss unit shield only constitutes about 1/3rd of it's life or less. Zealots have 100/50. Immortals have 250/100. Colossus has 200/150. Void rays have 150/100. Phoenix has 120/60. The only units that have half life/shield or more are stalkers, HTs, DTs, and Sentries, and it barely matters since these units are meant to sit at the back for support instead of being in the front line where all the damage is happening.

2. Guess what, Storms effect every single Terran unit too. But in this case it is much worse for Terran. Even with perfect dodging, a single storm will do at least 20 damage to units. 20 damage sounds very little, but keep i mind that most terran units are squishy -100 hitpoint units. 20 damage is basically half the life of a marine. All it takes is a blanket of 3 or 4 storms to kill of most of a marine marauder force while leaving the rest in terminal red. And this is just damage from Storms by the way, not adding all the damage being done by other units like zealots or stalkers.

3. And that is why most Protoss units have +150 hitpoints while terrans barely hit 120 hitpoints.

4. And it also has the side of effect of NOT KILLING ANYTHING AT ALL. However the same cannot be said for Storms.

5. Why would you want to feedback a marine when you can simply spam Storms and send 100 marines into oblivion?

6. Yes. And that is why storms kill just about everything while EMP doesn't.

7. And that is why ghosts costs 200/100 and takes 40 seconds to make while HTs cost only 50/150 and takes only 5 seconds to make. Also, Terrans can't conveniently combine 2 ghosts together in an emergency to get a free Thor.

8. Even 100 bajillion EMPs cannot kill a single probe.

That's funny, because Protoss can simply throw around a random bunch of units into a blob, a-move and still win. Protoss doesn't get punished for overcomitting on anything at all; more templars or more colossi will only make Protoss stronger no matter what the situation, because these units counter just about 90% of Terran units in a standard terran army. Tell me, how many units do Ghosts and Vikings counter each?


1. It constitutes half of a Protoss units life because Protoss do not regenerate health like Terrans do. Any damage that happens on the unit itself is permanent. If I were to pull back my forces which are either in the red or yellow, its going to remain in the red or yellow till it dies. Also, we have to upgrade both Shields and Armor just to be on equal terms on upgrades which Terran's require only one upgrade for.

2. Storms are detrimental only to Bio. If you went mech, you'll find out very quickly that storming Thors/Hellions/Sieges is retarded.

3. Like I said, Terrans can heal back all 120 hit points while Protoss can't.

4. There is a reason the tactic is named MMMG. It stands for Marine, Marauder, Medivac, Ghosts. Ghosts EMP the Shields and energy off a Protoss unit, Marauders and Marines stim in and kill everything. You don't send Ghosts in just to spam EMP all day waiting to kill something.

5. Except for the fact that you can run out of a Storm? And you can heal off the damage of a Storm while the Templar is still chasing you down? And you can keep baiting the Templars to Storm just to waste its energy before you run in and kill it?

6. Storms are ineffective against Mech. Try it sometimes.

7. Except that Ghosts are still cheaper than Templars in comparison.
Here's how the tech tree goes for Ghosts : Depot --> Barracks ---> Ghost Academy
And you can still get a Factory and Starport out.
Protoss tech goes a little like this : Gateway --> CyberCore --> Council ---> Archives
And here's the kicker about Protoss, they are insanely gas intensive. So if I invest in this tech route, you won't be seeing me going Collosi till I take a 3rd or a 4th or I decide to just abandon Temps completely. And if I did abandon it altogether, I just wasted a shitload of gas for Archives, Storm research and the few Temps I made. Also Archons are 350/10, so 3 EMPs would literally, devastate an Archon.

8. EMP is a support spell, Storm is an Offensive spell. Is that so hard to differentiate? Oh just in case you didn't know, Ghosts can Snipe.

And are you seriously implying that Terran can't A-move as well? MMMG is basically A-move. Here's how it works.

Cloak Ghosts ---> EMP Sentries ----> Press T on hotkey-ed Bioball ---> 1a2a3a

Congratulations, you've just beat the Protoss.


Quazacolt
post Nov 9 2011, 12:39 AM

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QUOTE(FLampard @ Nov 9 2011, 12:28 AM)
i thought not so long ago ppl said that marines are the most OP units? so why not? since they are so overpower who needs tier 3?
*
they still are so long you either:

1) micro well/better than your opponent
2) not doing stupid shits like running into storms/fungal growths/siege tanks

regardless how op they are, blizzard still designed units that counter them (welp, tier 1 units needing counters), and still training MUHREENS while your opponent does nothing but do things that counter marines, is just asking for a lost smile.gif
FLampard
post Nov 9 2011, 12:43 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 9 2011, 12:39 AM)
they still are so long you either:

1) micro well/better than your opponent
2) not doing stupid shits like running into storms/fungal growths/siege tanks

regardless how op they are, blizzard still designed units that counter them (welp, tier 1 units needing counters), and still training MUHREENS while your opponent does nothing but do things that counter marines, is just asking for a lost smile.gif
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Good that u just realise about the part where everything has a counter and it is meant to be that way. So winning is all about countering what your opponent is doing, knowing ur own/enemy's weakness and strength, and using ur strength to attack his weakness.
dishwasher
post Nov 9 2011, 12:46 AM

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QUOTE(FLampard @ Nov 9 2011, 12:43 AM)
Good that u just realise about the part where everything has a counter and it is meant to be that way. So winning is all about countering what your opponent is doing, knowing ur own/enemy's weakness and strength, and using ur strength to attack his weakness.
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If you think Marines are balanced because they have counters in a tier 3 unit (HTs or Colossi), then I also have nothing to say anymore. Winning SHOULD be about countering your opponent, but what else in the Protoss arsenal effectively counters a 111?
Quazacolt
post Nov 9 2011, 12:47 AM

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QUOTE(FLampard @ Nov 9 2011, 12:43 AM)
Good that u just realise about the part where everything has a counter and it is meant to be that way. So winning is all about countering what your opponent is doing, knowing ur own/enemy's weakness and strength, and using ur strength to attack his weakness.
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wait ya:


QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 9 2011, 12:39 AM)
they still are so long you either:

1) micro well/better than your opponent
2) not doing stupid shits like running into storms/fungal growths/siege tanks

regardless how op they are, blizzard still designed units that counter them (welp, tier 1 units needing counters), and still training MUHREENS while your opponent does nothing but do things that counter marines, is just asking for a lost smile.gif
*
FLampard
post Nov 9 2011, 12:51 AM

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QUOTE(dishwasher @ Nov 9 2011, 12:46 AM)
If you think Marines are balanced because they have counters in a tier 3 unit (HTs or Colossi), then I also have nothing to say anymore. Winning SHOULD be about countering your opponent, but what else in the Protoss arsenal effectively counters a 111?
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If u have nothing to say, thats because u know u dun have a good reason to support your stance.

Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories. - Sun Tze


I suggest u start to get to know urself and ur enemy, L2p. notworthy.gif



QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 9 2011, 12:47 AM)
wait ya:
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yeap smile.gif

This post has been edited by FLampard: Nov 9 2011, 12:52 AM
dishwasher
post Nov 9 2011, 12:54 AM

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QUOTE(FLampard @ Nov 9 2011, 12:51 AM)
If u have nothing to say, thats because u know u dun have a good reason to support your stance.

Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories. - Sun Tze
I suggest u start to get to know urself and ur enemy, L2p.  notworthy.gif
yeap  smile.gif
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Ooo, nice counter, but actually, I have nothing to say because the sheer stupidity of the statement doesn't deserve any reply.
FLampard
post Nov 9 2011, 12:55 AM

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QUOTE(dishwasher @ Nov 9 2011, 12:54 AM)
Ooo, nice counter, but actually, I have nothing to say because the sheer stupidity of the statement doesn't deserve any reply.
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but u did.
Quazacolt
post Nov 9 2011, 12:58 AM

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QUOTE(FLampard @ Nov 9 2011, 12:55 AM)
but u did.
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He said you're stupid, if that makes you feel better.
FLampard
post Nov 9 2011, 01:00 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 9 2011, 12:58 AM)
He said you're stupid, if that makes you feel better.
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I dont really care about personal attacks on the internet...really ..keyboard warrioring behind a screen?... been there done that..

I am happier discussing things in a much mature manner actually, but ppl always have a thing about video games and things got heat up.

This post has been edited by FLampard: Nov 9 2011, 01:01 AM
dishwasher
post Nov 9 2011, 01:04 AM

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QUOTE(FLampard @ Nov 9 2011, 12:55 AM)
but u did.
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Did I bring up arguments and try to make you see why needing tier 3 to deal with Marines is ridiculous? No. Instead, I get sucked into some smart arsed argument where you make nonsensical posts without actually arguing anything. If that makes you feel smarter and better, then yay! Hooray! God knows I get enough of this crap talking to Quaz.

Sheesh.
FLampard
post Nov 9 2011, 01:05 AM

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QUOTE(dishwasher @ Nov 9 2011, 01:04 AM)
Did I bring up arguments and try to make you see why needing tier 3 to deal with Marines is ridiculous? No. Instead, I get sucked into some smart arsed argument where you make nonsensical posts without actually arguing anything. If that makes you feel smarter and better, then yay! Hooray! God knows I get enough of this crap talking to Quaz.

Sheesh.
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u mad bro? biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
Quazacolt
post Nov 9 2011, 01:05 AM

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QUOTE(FLampard @ Nov 9 2011, 01:00 AM)
I dont really care about personal attacks on the internet...really ..keyboard warrioring behind a screen?... been there done that..

I am happier discussing things in a much mature manner actually, but ppl always have a thing about video games and things got heat up.
*
im sure everyone's been chillaxing, at the very least i am. i personally think the problem starts when people are trying to act mature and bringing in TSUN tzu quotes just to make themselves feel smarter.
Instant_noodle
post Nov 9 2011, 01:08 AM

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eventhou i dun play SC2 (but listening to those commentators yapping how nice white-dude is, how emo idr-dude can be and korean's +15 skill attributes on blizz games)

i find this argument... interesting...

marines are OH-PEE!!!!

/runs away
FLampard
post Nov 9 2011, 01:08 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 9 2011, 01:05 AM)
im sure everyone's been chillaxing, at the very least i am. i personally think the problem starts when people are trying to act mature and bringing in TSUN tzu quotes just to make themselves feel smarter.
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in case u realise i talked to jeffvip about it already in terran strategy thread. It isnt something new or something smart or something mature. Me being smart ? man tons of ppl out there actually bought the book and read it.

on the bolded part, well not everyone biggrin.gif
Quazacolt
post Nov 9 2011, 01:13 AM

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QUOTE(FLampard @ Nov 9 2011, 01:08 AM)
in case u realise i talked to jeffvip about it already in terran strategy thread. It isnt something new or something smart or something mature. Me being smart ? man tons of ppl out there actually bought the book and read it.

on the bolded part, well not everyone  biggrin.gif
*
why of course, i do actively lurk all the threads in this forum regardless of my actual participation in posting. of course, if im not posting in a thread, probably because im either too busy, too tired, or probably both these days. terran talks about they get their well deserved nerfs unjustly and random derailment of "actual terran" stuffs has gotten very uninteresting and i simply do not have the luxury to waste my time on them anymore smile.gif
FLampard
post Nov 9 2011, 01:14 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 9 2011, 01:13 AM)
why of course, i do actively lurk all the threads in this forum regardless of my actual participation in posting. of course, if im not posting in a thread, probably because im either too busy, too tired, or probably both these days. terran talks about they get their well deserved nerfs unjustly and random derailment of "actual terran" stuffs has gotten very uninteresting and i simply do not have the luxury to waste my time on them anymore smile.gif
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i feel the same way too. great men all think alike.
SiewKaiz
post Nov 9 2011, 08:59 AM

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QUOTE(siu_ling @ Nov 8 2011, 07:24 PM)
yea this forum is full of kid. too affraid to admit fact . sigh ..

and they think they are good . acuatly is the race win them the games . tongue.gif

if u are diamond using op race . u should be in gold using not op race lol.
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i use OP race but just diamond but protoss or zerg is master and high diamond~ hows that?


Added on November 9, 2011, 9:08 am
QUOTE(FLampard @ Nov 9 2011, 01:00 AM)
I dont really care about personal attacks on the internet...really ..keyboard warrioring behind a screen?... been there done that..

I am happier discussing things in a much mature manner actually, but ppl always have a thing about video games and things got heat up.
*
doesnt need to care those kb warrior yo~ coz those kb warrior didnt even attend any LAN tourney nor show up~

This post has been edited by SiewKaiz: Nov 9 2011, 09:10 AM
Nandeska
post Nov 9 2011, 09:19 AM

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QUOTE(SiewKaiz @ Nov 9 2011, 08:59 AM)
i use OP race but just diamond but protoss or zerg is master and high diamond~ hows that?


Added on November 9, 2011, 9:08 am
doesnt need to care those kb warrior yo~ coz those kb warrior didnt even attend any LAN tourney nor show up~
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QFT, keyboarding in front of monitor as if they are god of Starcraft but do not dare to join tourney to prove their skills (no time, waste time, etc etc)

If we can have something blizzard forum have, it should be much better brows.gif

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