1st, your writing is seriously wrong.

There is a difference between a DIVIDEND FUND and a Dividend-PAYING Fund

A Dividend Fund invests in high dividend-yielding equities
A Dividend-paying fund has as its objective, to distribute most if not all of its income to its unitholders

I presume u are talking about the latter...

Well, at least the client has BOUGHT the funds, commission is pocketed when the client buys, no?

Not all dividend-paying funds are bad.
Similarly, the fact that a fund can pay regular dividends does not necessarily mean that the fund is a strong performer.

Obviously u have not read the recent discussions at Fund Investment Corner.

Please spend some time to read from Page 119 onwards, any question, ask.

---

Added on July 4, 2012, 7:03 pmA UT investor who monitors and tracks his portfolio will see that dividends are pointless.

It is those passive UT investors who BELIEVED that dividends are a "bonus", "additional gain", "weath enhancement" etc etc etc.

Why?

I illustrate and example of the latter...

- Ah Beng invested RM10,000 in PB Growth Fund.

- Ah Beng never track and monitor his investment.

- 11 months later, his account value actually shot up to RM11,500. But he won't know cos he never go and check his units x NAV price.

- Month 12, dividend is declared. Ah Beng elected to receive dividends in the form of cash payment.

- Distribution is paid. Ah Beng received a cheque for RM1,000

- His account value is now RM10,500.

Dividend or not, at Month 12, Ah Beng's investment is already worth RM11,500.

Dividend - RM10,500 in units + RM1,000 in cash on hand = RM11,500
No dividend - RM11,500 all in units

FAHAM KA???

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Jul 4 2012, 07:03 PM

1. If client's portfolio is not performing, agent's commission will be lesser when the client sells the fund.
I assume U mean the "career benefit" or "trailer benefit", where agents get 0.2%pa of the value of loaded funds (or was it just equity funds? )?

2. Since dividend fund is not something profitable then why would the agents introducing these funds to clients?
Based on (1.) and assuming U mean "dividend paying fund" as per Pink's clarification, the simplest answer and logic would be...
a. the agents doesn't CARE about the long term as they have the service charges up front already
er.. say 2.75% * $150K lump sum - this was what my friend's spouse nearly got conned into, PCSF summore + lump sum!

OR

b. the agents know nuts
Plenty of these too

U should see most of some of these agents eyes widen when i was playing with my Excel sheets, doing value averaging or TwinVest, versus their recommended DCA.
and this was during a class break for non-newbie agents!

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jul 4 2012, 07:23 PM

Pinkie and Mr. Wong, thanks for replying. Yes, I was referring to the dividend-paying fund, sorry for not able to specify it. Well, I have read the previous pages but it doesn't mention what I wanted to know.

If one chooses to reinvest, he/she could have bought more units at lower NAV, which is also a way to leverage down the price that he/she bought earlier on.

By the way, mind to share me the excel sheet that you did value averaging or twinvest?

What is Twinvest?

What is DCA?

DCA == dollar cost averaging

DCA = DDI?

Something like that. DCA is a general term.

DDI == Direct Debit Instruction

er.. Debbie.. sorry yar but.. U pulling me leg ar?
U and i ding-dong on value cost averaging and it's cousin TwinVest way earlier in V2
or was it in earlier posts in V3
or was it in Fund Investment Corner before right?

We even Private Messaged a few stuff...
heheh - then again, i may have mixed U up with some others BUT i specifically remember ding-donging with U in Private Messaged about mutual funds.
i'm getting old & foggy

Just do a search in LYN (there.. that text box at the bottom left) for TwinVest and VCA. Please don't torture me heheh.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jul 4 2012, 08:06 PM

That statement is flawed and very wrong.

Aiyo forgot to add on something

Refer back to my earlier example...

Dividend or not, at Month 12, Ah Beng's investment is already worth RM11,500.

Dividend - RM10,500 in units + RM1,000 in cash on hand = RM11,500
Dividend REINVESTED - RM11,500 all in units
No dividend - RM11,500 all in units

Why can't u comprehend the many examples and illustrations given?

BEFORE dividend, u have 4 pieces of moon cakes, totalling 200g x 4 = 800g
AFTER dividend, your 4 pieces of moon cakes are cut into quarters each, making 16 pieces. 16 pieces x 50g = 800g
PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS ANALOGY

Dividend only makes your holdings become smaller in value, and at the same time "giving" u more units. At the end it's back to zero...

It's exactly like, u own 50% in ABC Berhad.
ABC Berhad has net assets of RM100m, which included RM10m cash.
So, ur stake in ABC Berhad is worth RM100m x 50% = RM50m
If tomorrow the Board of Directors decide to pay out a dividend of RM10m, u will get cash of RM10m x 50% = RM5m
And your stake in ABC Berhad will become RM90m x 50% = RM45m
How much u OWN now? RM45m in shares and RM5m in cash, total = RM50m
Then u decide to reinvest into the company (and assuming the other shareholders do the same)
The net assets of ABC Berhad will now go up to RM90m + RM10m = RM100m
And u own RM100m x 50% = RM50m now

Dividend in unit trust is just like that!!!

I need to see a heart specialist

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Jul 4 2012, 08:07 PM

Trust me Pink - somethings are hard to explain via forum and just words.
Sometimes, have to do it by paper or Excel and show the changes real time.. then the light comes on..
Seen it happen many times

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jul 4 2012, 08:08 PM

Maybe drawing a pie chart showing NA of a UT fund before and after dividend will enlighten them

They just got too fixated on the word "unit"

The term "extra units" just make them go

Well, the eggs/units story worked on aunties/uncles as a marketing tool/gimmick mar, thus, their reality may have been passed on to the next generations

Just to share a "reality" split between a friend & her mother.
Her mother says mutual funds all stealing $, even though her bond funds - which made her 2.7%+/- within 6 to 7 months (literally value/cost)
She insist that her daughter is tipu-ing her and wants the cash back for her FD.
Big and consistent thorn/arguments due to this "reality" difference - i'm still adamant that my friend just cash-in and give her mum back the $ to bury in FD
Not worth the bad blood mar and it's not like the variance of % is needed for survival (friend's doing quite well)

Moral of the story... different "realities". U just can't logic it out when this happens.
Just like my "reality" Vs Genneva "investors' reality"

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jul 4 2012, 08:16 PM

Actually I think if they cannot understand the simple concept of dilutiion due to dividen distribution, they should continue investing in unit trust instead of doing their own investing.

Bro, we ARE talking about dividends in unit trusts...that ABC Berhad example is just an illustration of the very concept that u just mentioned.

And the dilution happens in BOTH direct equity investments and unit trust investments.

fund financial statement... http://www.publicmutual.com.my/OurProducts...tatementFS.aspx

By the way, how did you know so much of investing methods such as dollar cost averaging and twinvest and value averaging?? Where to get to know all these? My agent only asks me to do DDI. I must know and understand ALL the options then only I'm able to choose the most suitable one right? wasted time and money now...

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Jul 4 2012, 11:03 PM

Debbie, U "see me too high" (Kanto-knees literal translation)
Like U, i wasn't born with these data/info in my head.
I did like U until 20+, got fed up with being conned/suckered/blind-leading-blind and results couldn't be repeated.
Hunger to learn and do better for myself and family (now charities) forced me to learn from $ mgt, insurance, investing to estate planning.
Still i know that i don't know much

Thus, bottom line, U shouldn't regret.
At least U started investing + it's not wasted time & money - hell, i lost about $100K in investments + another er.. bigger chunk in investing in the wrong partner.
Learn from your experience AND learn from books and others (forums are a good place - please use you logic & brain to filter BS yar).

Don't blame the agents - they are where they are, coz of what they are and where they choose to be.
Same with us - we are where we are, coz what we are and where we choose to be. Change wanted? Make changes lar

any1 here knows how to use EMA 3,5,10 for entry / stay / exit plan? i read it in cari forum but i cant understand the concept?

EMA as in Exponential Moving Average? 3,5 10 of EMA?
bro - are U lost or something? That's usually for ForEx and other trading vehichles wor.
U want to TRADE mutual funds? With the crazy entry charges (compared to stocks, options, ForEx and futures)?
This i gotta see...

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jul 5 2012, 09:16 PM

y say crazy? cos read in a chinese forum got ppl really trade mutual fund use Exponential Moving Average cos i dunno when i shud lock my profit & park my fund to bond fund..den when shud i go in again when market going down...

This post has been edited by kent05: Jul 5 2012, 09:36 PM