I'm abit confused...

Can someone guide me, I need to DIY my ceiling light replacement....?

Please do not DIY if you even not know how to differentiate green, blue and black in the first place.

Hire electrician to do the job, electricity can be dangerous, if not know to handle it.

Standard
Black - live
Blue - neutral
Green - earth.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 11 2011, 12:07 AM

green = ground
blue = neutral
black/red = life

most importantly the main switchbox is off n use test pen to detect any power leak...

there is no fix standard on wiring color code, different country different std

for single phase,
normal 3 core wire:
Brown=L
Blue=N
Green=E

wire pull by electrician/ provided by developer:

red/yellow/blue=L
Black=N
Green=E

link:http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_5/chpt_2/2.html

This post has been edited by skng03: Jun 11 2011, 02:09 AM

That's the confusing part...


red/yellow/blue=L
Black=N

or

Blue=N
Black=L

1) Write down the colour code on existing connector
2) Check whether any indication there.
3) Normally Earth should be Green
4) Use Test Pen to check, if LIGHT UP meant is LIVE
5) The list one should then (without light up when use Test Pen) should be neutral

* Please correct if wrong statement


This post has been edited by Jo_da48: Jun 11 2011, 09:45 AM

most important is have a, working test pen...

and also some basic common sense... and ur all good to go

for malaysian wiring colour code

Red/Yellow/Blue - Live

Black - Neutral

Green - Ground/earth.

but for electrical appliances (plug/fluorescent fitting) it's depend on the country of origin.. it's a little bit different like.

Brown/red - Live
Blue/black - Neutral
green - ground.

This post has been edited by wannur: Jun 11 2011, 07:28 PM

u better hire a electrician, pay then settle

what i do is use a test pen to find the live wire

The problem is electrician not even bother to pick such small job...



Gonna 'force' my contractor to settle for me...

easy rules:

Earth= always green
Neutral= No colour, ie black or white
Live= Coloured except green!

the different colour of live wire used by the electrician is to differentiate type, zone etc...

Thanks all for the help. I "survived" and successfully installed my ceiling light via DIY.

Very helpful information, indeed!

Good thread indeed. Last time, I tried to install my own lamp, just 1 lamp (the wiring is there already, hanging on the ceiling), i googled around and it's very confusing but i managed to do it ..

for lamp fittings, Neutral and Live is not important. Both connected to the terminals anyway. Just make sure the earth wire is not connected to one of the terminals or the Live not connected to the metal body...

who suggest replace a light need to hire a electrical man?? so malaysian... lols..

replace the light is js a piece of cake la, even ah poh can do that. most important is don't forget to switch off the power first.

Reviving an old thread to get advice from sifus.......

I jut bought bout 3 dozen lights for new house, mostly ceiling mounted led panels.

The shop's installer say standard rate is RM15 to install one light.

I reckon each job will require : 2 screws to fit light to ceiling, connect 2 wires, pop the cover back.

Most of the ceiling is plaster ceiling board. Drilling not a problem.
So I am thinking to DIY myself.


Before I fried myself or burn a row of houses, can sifus check if I got the theory part right :

Most of my lighting points like this :



Q1
The middle wire can be red, yellow or blue. I think this is the wireman's way to identify each 'loop'
Correct?

Q2
So the Black = Neutral; Red/Yellow/Blue = Live; Green is Earth.
Correct?




Q3
The LED lights has 2 tiny blue wires. These are to be connected to the Neutral (Black) and Live (R/Y/B)
Which way also OK. Correct?

Q4
No need to use Earth (Green) wire.
Correct ah?

Q5
There are two black and green wires each because of looping. Just leave them alone. Don't pull out.
Correct?

This post has been edited by Fazab: Sep 8 2014, 06:14 PM

Q1 = that is live wire. Not loop. And probably a 3phase wire. Which each color represent R, S, T.

Q2 = correct.

Q3 = if the wire have same color, that mean no polarity. Which way also can.

Q4 = if your downlight casing is metal, you need to ground it. In case the light short and somebody touch it.

Q5 = correct. If you pull out, others light will not light.

how you guys connect the wires together?
using those terminal blocks
http://www.mdnsupplies.co.uk/shop/terminal-block-lg.jpg

or these electrical caps?
http://hostedmedia.reimanpub.com/TFH/Proje...U_WIRCON_01.JPG

This post has been edited by idoblu: Sep 8 2014, 08:48 PM

Can be say, all the local using terminal block.

Most of the western is using cap.

But I using molex connector.

molex needs special crimping tool right but for lights is okay, i guess
terminal blocks - i scared it melts and the two terminal touch.
caps - i dont know if it will work or come loose for big gauge wire and one small wire (like you connect those drivers to existing wiring) i guess needs to get the correct size cap which i do not know how to determine

any advice?

This post has been edited by idoblu: Sep 8 2014, 08:57 PM

Terminal block good for simple and low current usage equipments like light and fan. High current stuff I use solder and shrink tapes.

Hard to reach area caps are good. If high current use caps need to be careful may burn if not properly screw, loose connection will cause heat=burn=fire.

Molex connector are more secure and can run higher amp. Can plug/unplug without switch off. No wrong connection pluging since it have a 1way connect. But yes, it need tool to clamp.

Terminal block have been using for very longtime. If the wire size is big, use bigger terminal. It doesn't melt. But after some longtime, the plastic start to degrade. The bad about it is that the thick gauge wire will easy broken if the screw too tight.

Caps is easy to use. No tool use. Just hand. You need to twist the wire together first. Than twist the cap into the wire till it lock. Don't worry about it. It pretty secure. Unless you not lock it tight enough. It come in many size. So use correctly.

There is another type of cap. Which also twist the wire and cap in. Instead of twist the cap, this cap need tool to clamp it. Pretty common in local here.

nowadays the terminal blocks also low quality. sometimes the screw got no thread wan, or bad thread so they come loose and arc. got no branded terminal blocks?

if one wire is thick (those stiff type - not many strands) and one wire is tiny (very thin), I think the cap may not hold them and the thin wire may come loose. if both wires same size I think i have more confidence they be ok in the long run.

Im gonna get a bunch of different size to try but have to waste the whole bag if its wrong

This post has been edited by idoblu: Sep 8 2014, 09:14 PM

Oh forget. Terminal block is prefer mostly here is because it easy to make connection to your light. The developer just standby the wire with terminal block at the box.

If using cap, developer cannot put a cap on the wire. The wire will be bare like that. It is dangerous.

Thanks a bundle

Q4 - casing is aluminium I think. All ceiling light, minimum 8 feet high. How to ground it?



That more or less how they look like.

All my life only see terminal blocks everywhere.

The only caps I ever saw is in the Fanco baby fan in my kitchen, made in Singapore.
The wireman who installed the fan didn't know how to use it. In the end change to blocks.

Easy. Teach you some trick.

Strip the insulator of both wire longer. Twist together. Than bend the wire u shape. Put the cap in. When you bend the wire u shape, it lock both wire. So you can't pull the small wire out.

You need another green wire to touch the alu casing. Either secure by the screw lock on the casing.

ok will try that. ya man if i use terminal blocks, i also scared the thin wire will break if screwed on too tight...sigh
btw developers where got put terminal blocks for you? they leave it bare. they cut the insulation a bit and twist together.

Walau er. Cost down till like that. Not expensive ma the terminal block.

Last time I still can see terminated with a terminal block on it.

you see how thin these wires....

This 1 not thin la. Got more worst than this. Specially those cheapskate china electrical.

If Wires too thin, the block will not secure the wires properly. Fold back the wires into the wire insulator, so the top is copper, bottom is wire insulator, put it on the terminal block. This way you secure the wires, and copper are properly touching the conductor.

I wonder if I should not strip the insulation at all. Just tighten the screw till it cuts into the insulation. I always do that for three pin plugs

Nope, contact will not be good.

This way the wire always break inside the insulator after tight the screw. And there is possible the thin wire didn't touch the screw at all. Just the insulator is tight by the screw.

There is another way is to get a straight metal connector. Clamp the wire on it. Than screw it to terminal block.

Roll the wires together, and turn it back to touch the insulator. This will work better. if have soldering, just solder the copper and put inside the block.


BTW, lots of people don't know how to join wires when solder. This site show proper way http://www.ripsdiy.co.za/cablesandwires.shtml

And this too
http://www.electrical-contractor.net/PC/tr2.jpg

gentle reminder, in case ur unaware. if you have plaster ceiling, you cant drill and mount the light directly. the plaster ceiling does not offer you any 'grip', you'll simply puncture the ceiling with your screw.

what you need to do is place a piece of wood, about 20% bigger than your light, secure the wood to plaster ceiling, then you can mount your ceiling light by drilling thru the plaster ceiling and using the wood as grip.

I was going to ask this question.

plaster ceiling guy say can drill, but must find when is the supporting steel bars, and fix the screw thru that.

but he didn't tell me how to find the steel bar from below. I need X-ray eyes.......?

Magnet?

depends on what kind of lights. if concealed downlights, they just pop into the hole and the spring clip prevents it from falling down. no screws required. the plaster ceiling support beams are aluminum so magnet wont help. you can cut open a hole to see where they are i suppose and patch the hole back. maybe stud detector can work?

Easy la. Just get some plaster ceiling screw plug. Come in few shape and style. Google it.

My Indon handyman laugh when I asked him. He said the unit is so light, just use normal screws can. If lazy use double sided tape also can.

I ask him how much he charge to fit a light........he also want RM15.

Indon also expensive oledi.

Done fixing lights. Just sharing silly experiences and thanking the sifus here for their advises, and double check anything I missed.

1. Fix light to plaster ceiling without light dropping

True that plaster ceiling board do not provide enough grip. Before I started, I got a 'competent' installer to fit two lights and I watched him all the way. He just drill and used normal wall plugs. If I pull hard on the light, it moves.....
OK don't pull it then.

I did the rest using a safer but more tiring way
First I try to get to an aluminium bar above the plaster board. Turns out that in most cases the plaster ceiling man will have fixed a bar near the lighting point. If I find it I put at least one screw into the aluminium bar. That gives good hold.

How to find it? First I put middle finger in the wiring hole and feel feel around (OK, don't get naughty thoughts)
If finger not long enough I use a small drill bit and poke around from outside (also no naughty thoughts) to find it.
Then I just patch up the small holes.

If no aluminium bar nearby, I use 'butterfly' wall plugs. This one a bit problem because they are thick and big, have to make a big hole to push it through. Also, the thinnest plug I can find is 10mm thick at the base. If the plaster board is less than 9mm thick, it does not sit flush to the ceiling, but won't come out. So OK. Safe.

But once you put the plug in you can't pull it out. To remove, only way is to push the whole thing in, and patch the big hole.


2. The earth wire.

For small LED lights, casing is plastic, so I no fix the earth wire, just left them in the connector.

For the big ones with aluminium casings, I copycat the installer - remove the green wires from the connector, strip about one inch of tubing from each, twist them together, and join to one of the supporting screws.


3. Wiring the LED lights

This is the part I had the most problem, because the LED wires are b***** tiny.
Quite difficult to get the screw of the connectors to sit on the wires.

End up I bend the tip into a hook, push it in as far as possible, and screw down onto the tubing hard.
So the LED wires will directly contact the house wires on the other side.


4. End results - so far so good

All lights work.

One a bit senget (tip : buy round shape ones, no matter how you mess up, they can't go senget)

Lights secured by butterfly plugs may have a tiny but noticable gap between the base and ceiling if your board is thin.
(tip : find better plugs)


5. Conclusion - maybe I should have just get people to do it........got neckache now.
(Tip : make sure ladder is tall enough, and you don't have weak knees problem)

OK, I got into another silly situation.

Wanted to fit timer and sensor switches to front and back lights before balik kampung long weekend.

But the only wireman who will do this 'small job' failed to turn up - twice.


So for last minute desperate measure, I plan to buy socket timers, plugs, and long wires.

I will fit the wire --> plug --> then plug into timer --> wall socket

Then I will temporarily swap the wires from the lights to the new wires (connect using terminal blocks)

Now the lights will be connected thru socket timers

I think this will work. Is there ANYTHING that I need to be careful of? Overlooked?

Sorry, I DIY a lot, but a bit panciky when come to electric.

The wires will be 10 - 20 feet long. Bankrupt.....

Hi !

Need expert advise, I have few unused wall lighting extension.
I was wondering can I use it as the power for radio or for charging phone / notebook?

I was thinking of buying extension power cord and connect to the wire extension.

Can it take the load?

Please advise!

Thanks in advance.

Just don't get yourself injure. Makesure you tape the incoming wire properly that temporary not use.

What is lighting extension ?

Sorry, what I mean is the wire which suppose to use as wall light can I use it as the power for radio or for charging phone / notebook?

Please advise.

hi guys, I have a question,
For kitchen hood, if power supply is control via switch, do i need to use 20A switch or normal switch for lights is good enough?

depends on your hood's power, there is 200w hood, yet there is over 1200w hoods

how much is your's ?

As long as the appliance that involving a motor, compressor, heater you shall install a dedicated 20A switch.

Hi, the rating motor power is 200W, and input power is 208W.
So, it is advisable to have a 20A switch, then i will have to buy one... i bought the normal switch.

Btw, whats the amount of A can be handle with normal switch? i have the Schneider KB31-1.
Thank you.

Hob ade heater ke

20A switch for 200W is definitely overkill. Even a 13A plug is sufficient lor

JunJun04035, you are right. I made a call to Fotile customer service, they said normal switch with 13A is sufficient.
Thanks for input ya.

By theory, yes, a normal switch will do, but for safety(since most of us will install and use until it fails), 20A will be better, in case you are going to change it to higher rating type later on.

That's why I said any appliance

Hi!
Need some advice

I have 2 20A switches in my kitchen which are unused:


When I first renovated years ago, I couldn't decide if I wanted to get a microwave and oven fitted into my kitchen cabinet, so I left those cabinet empty, and my contractor just terminated the wires for me.

Top:



Bottom:



Questions that I have:
1. What is the difference between the top configurations and the bottom configurations?

2. I want to buy a microwave with oven combo: Something like this specs: Panasonic Microwave Oven
These microwave ovens normally come with a normal 3-pin plug. Can I remove the plug and connect the microwave wires directly to the 20A switch wires via the terminal connectors?

Thank you in advance for replying!

both the same, the one you see 2 green because the earth is loop to another location and you must have both the earth connected.

Not advisable, get a box, put in a socket, and use that sockect for your microware oven, the plug supply by microwave is for safety measurement, it have a 13amps fused.

.

This post has been edited by idoblu: Apr 26 2016, 07:58 PM

hey guys if i want to conceal a wiring casing inside my wall so that i can use it to hide my power cords between my plug point and my appliances. any casing to recommend?

Hi guys, need some advice here.

I just bought a new switch for my water heater. There are 2L2N and 1 symbol like wifi which I think it should be G (5 holes in total).

When I open the old switch, I realise that there are 2 black, 1 blue, 1 red and 2 green wires.

Should I just connect the 2 green wires to G?

If by "Wifi symbol" you mean this:

|
-----
---
-

Thats not "wifi" symbol thats the symbol for Earth-Ground


Sounds like you have a DPST switch which is common for high current things like water heater. 1N and 1L should be on one side, and on the other side is another N and L correct?

The Green wires are earth and looped (which is correct) so yes you connect it to the Ground point in the switch.

Blue and Red are the live wires. Im guessing the Blue wire is the thicker one built into the wall? Connect that to the "point 1" of the switch, then connect red to the "point 2" of the switch. - MAKE SURE YOU TURN OFF MAIN POWER FIRST!

Then connect the black wires to the Neutral, following the same order so that the supply line and line to the water heater are not crossed.

If in doubt consult an electrician.

I am trying to buy Aqara smart wall switch to replace existing wall switch. I need to decide whether I can buy the version with neutral line.

When I opened the existing switch, I found this as attached.

Does it mean that there is no neutral line? Or it is just that the electrician uses red wire as neutral?

Thank you.

This post has been edited by taipan70: Oct 6 2017, 09:48 AM


Attached thumbnail(s)

hi, do downlight need to connect Earth as usually they only have Live & Neutral and unlike surface mounted they have plastic casing.

so for surface mounted can i just use an earth crimp connector (looks like a washer) and put it in between the light support mount & the screw onto the ceiling?

what about normal pendant lights? same thing connect earth to metal part of the body?

and do contractors normally pull Earth wire when doing looping for downlights or just pull Live & Neutral?

Any metal frame need to be ground it.

You need to advise the contractor to pull the earth wire together if they don't.

ok, so for downlight no need because their casing are made of plastic, just need to remember to turn off switch & DB when changing it as the clips are still metal?

It is for safety. Not just changing the light.

ok so for Recess Downlight Round one do we need to ground it?

If have metal casing, ground it.

Actually I am also facing the same issue.

Anyone can confirm what is the correct line configuration in the picture?

Live + Neutral? ???

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3554748/+1640

I don't understand? That thread just discuss about some switch from china require N line or no.

I am asking about the photo posted, is it all Live only? or there is N line? or ???

Only Live incoming and out going.

No neutral.

3 Lives going into switch no neutral or ground how does it work actually?

hi, is it true if you buy those programmable switch like Honeywell, to use it as light switch we need to pull the neutral line from the light wires to the switch? the light switch itself won't have the Neutral wire? it's a schneider light switch i plan to replace.

hi, i looked at your picture again, i figure the rows of wire on top are Switch Live, the MCB Live comes at the bottom and is looped to the other 2 switches, but i'm seeing both left & right side got MCB Live coming in, so my question is why is there 2 Live + 2 Loop wires in the switch?

Dear Sifu..

Need some advise and help here.

Objective: To provide Neutral Wire to my light switch for my new smart switch

Situation: I have 2 Gang Light Switch (for fan and lamp) next to Aircond switch

Q 1: Can I jumper the neutral in of aircond switch cable to provide Neutral in to the new switch?

I'm not sure if the Air Cond and light from same circuit, which I don't think so.

Q 2: Is it okey to tap neutral from the ceiling light itself? or should i tap from the ceiling fan?

Q 3: What is the black and green wire inside the double gang light switch?
I have multimeter and perhaps I will test out to be sure, but early advise will be great

Last option is to tap new wire from the circuit box, but i will have additional 8 lighting switch point to replace

For reference and better understanding, please refer to both image i provide in this post





Thank you!!!!

q1 : how many rcd or elcb the electrical board has? if 1 then yes, you can loop the neutral from aircon switch.
q2 : not necessary.
q3 : green should be earth that is wrapped with some wire tape to direct connect them together. black one should be neutral that is direct connect with wire tape.

be careful ok. and never assume wire function and phase based on wire color alone. always test before touching. be careful about neutral that is direct connect. sometimes when you separate them, a neutral that is disconnected from the neutral link becomes a live wire. so, you should know what you are doing before proceeding. good luck.

Thanks for your reply.
Yes I will test with Non Contact Volt Meter and also close the circuit before performing the job.

I will test and update later..

Thank you

Manage to install the neutral cable without any issue.
1. test with multimeter
2. Extend the cable with connector / coupler and cover it with electrical tape for added security
3. Install and all working fine.

Thanks alot

I use many types of crimper & tools.
1. Ferrule - insulated & bare (mainly DB, etc)
2. Splice/Lock crimp - good for LED downlight
3. Wire nut/Screw on - cheap & fast
4. Spring/Push Type & Clamp Quick (for thin wire, testing project)
5. Terminal block (Malaysia 1970s technology)

1-4 : Buy from Shopee / Taobao
5 : Buy from local hardware

This post has been edited by amco: Aug 27 2018, 02:14 AM

Hi Sifus,

I recently bought the XiaoMi Aqara switch thinking it would be simple to install. But actually it's not as simple lol. Want to know what does the letter mean


N should be Neutral but what is the rest?


Attached thumbnail(s)

L = live

L vs L1 is just to differentiate input/ouput (usually)

e.g the incoming live is into the L and the outgoing live to the load into the L1
but its kinda weird for not having N1 as well.

check some quick guide/manual that supposed to be attached with that switch.
should have some info on wiring diagram

after my post above i go google for a quick check. yes its correct.
the N is just one. u have to loop it

but you trouble would be that:
1. common wiring practice don't have N into the switch box
2. have to source for N which will be impossible if there's no conduit in the wall (mostlikely contractor just plaster the wire in)


looking at your switch i guess how it work is:
the switch needs power to operate thus it requires N

basically the N and L together is to power up your switch
then the L1 is to forward the Live for a complete circuit

sadly the manual is in Mandarin and I don't real Mandarin

actually not that hard. but i doubt it'll be doable.

workaround is possible but might be ugly or tedious.
if want simple it'll be ugly
if want nice proper its really tedious.

to me it's like need partial rewiring