very difficult..almost impossible i would say...y?..cos advisory is like consultancy..can a person with absolutely no experience consult a person on anything at all?..AND, would a company pay an inexperienced person to consult on any matters for that matters?..

anyway, wehre's ur area btw?..if in my area, which is KL, what i heard is that it is very difficult lah.

Slightly more difficult. Understand that they would recommend you to go audit 1 year first then switch, but going in fresh is common enough that if you're determined enough, no issue there.
Also don't expect you will be the one doing any 'consulting' in the early years. Grunt work forms a big portion of it and no prizes for guessing which level does them.
You are first a 'consultant' (rank basis) when you become AM.

yeap...agreed with this...they prefer to take in experienced people than a freshie...

To those in Big 4 now,

Are you there for the experience before switching to commerce after 3-5 years for a bigger salary? Or, do you intend to work in the company for a large portion of the career?

Reason I am asking is that it appears that the salary within the big 4 is not extremely attractive especially for the early years but after manager in ~6 years, maybe okay. Also, how do the work hours compare for a fresh grad and his senior/manager? Same hours? Do those in commerce have shorter hours?

The working hours depend on culture one, normally most stay because they want to stay to finish their work maybe due to incompetency or dedication. Salary wise, its actually quite ok but once compared to responsibility and hours of work, it becomes incomparable.

So what do you think is better for career progression, remain in big 4 to possibly reach senior manager or director or to move to commerce which is what people seem to be doing... Commerce gets better pay I presume, but what about environment and pressure etc?

Commerce in finance department also needs to work like dog. Maybe better slightly only

audit starting pay is definitely lower compared to other line, like in banking or finance..for example, some banks like Maybank pays freshie much higher than what the Big 4 pays for their fresh auditors.

i agree with this. the REAL management programs of more established banks (if you're willing to be bonded- big 4 bonds as well for 4 years if they were to pay for your professional certs) are paying out on average rm3k to rm3.5k for probation period and it increases another few hundred after probation period which is not a case in big 4. however, as a fresh graduate, one should not always weight in the salary but the goals and career prospect it could give to u. after all, a handful of people would not be in the same company for the rest of their lives and the first job will be the stepping stone for greater future.

This post has been edited by mayz: Feb 12 2011, 01:49 PM

Audit firms may provide better pay than commercial when you are in senior / manager level. However, do bear in mind that the non-cash benefits from the audit firm are next to "nil". And what benefits they can offer are not particularly fantastic compared to some commercial companies. Also depends on your superiors and the firm's management.

Some people are more suited for the consulting line, some are not. Some need the non-cash benefits like full medical/hospitalisation, house/car loan subsidy, etc, some do not.

Personally, I joined the my firm 9 years ago with no plans to leave. But in the last 2 years of my time with the firm, I did not like the way things were run in the firm, and I got a much better offer, so I left. There is a saying "people don't quit their jobs, they quit their bosses". In my case, this is very true. I love what I do, but I hated the place and the people I had to work for. Whether this will be the same for you, time will tell.

As for working hours, I would say commercial has its ups and downs just like the firm. Depends a lot on the culture of the company you join.

This post has been edited by CKJMark: Feb 14 2011, 09:21 AM

Topace,i'm hearing that Mazar is revising their fresh grad salary into RM2800,
so did u get any new from ur company that there r increasing salary also??haha..

1.5 years experience in a small audit firm, half year experience in a medium audit firm...just get my acca qualification..how much salary SGD should I demand in small/medium or big audit firm in SG?

consulting line?..u mean like go from the audit line to the consulting line (advisory) for a try out?...

i think he just meant comparing the two lines and not saying try audit first then consulting?

the non cash benefit in big 4 is next to zero LOL

The non-cash benefit for partners is insanely good actually (first hand heard from two partners). But I suppose it's a non-issue considering that not many will make it that high

This post has been edited by morgana_jara: Feb 15 2011, 12:07 AM

there are quite a handful of partners around. it's not whether they make it to that high (of course it counts la! haha.) or not but a matter of perseverance before you reach that level. most would leave even before reaching senior manager level.

not everyone is partnership material, just like not all scientists will win the nobel prize

of course the hardwork and talent/material count. just that i assume people understand my meaning only. chill la.

Fear of the unknown is the biggest factor for those decided to leave.

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Added on February 15, 2011, 8:47 pmPartners are naturally risk takers.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Feb 15 2011, 08:47 PM

Hey guys! Anyone here from KPMG SG?