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Group LYN Buddhism Retreat - SERIOUS TALK, No trolling please

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soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(Joey-kun @ Aug 19 2010, 03:23 PM)
it did. there were statues of Tibetan Buddhas found in sri lanka as well. if mahayana never reached sri lanka, we wouldnt have this this staute would we? it was just the event of theravardans getting the favor of the king and kicking the mahayanists out and vice versa. in the end the theravardans won. this was during the 11th century.
*
OK, the statue showed us that Mahayana buddhism did reach Sri Lanka but how do you draw conclusion that there was a war between Theravada sect and Mahayana in Sri lanka from that statue alone?

Kindly provide links of the war, all I read is just civil war, and invasion from India which wiped out most buddhist monks at that time, that they needed to import the Monks from burma to reintroduce the THeravada lineage there.

THere was definitely an ethnic wars in Sri lanka at that time, and we can surmise that the Sinhalese held on to their Theravada tradition , and the invaders from India might have come from another ethnic group from HIndu-Mahayana background.

Actually, by 10th century, buddhism was almost non-existent in India already. Some scholars put the type of buddhism in india at that time was a more like "hinduism" more to buddhism. Mahayana buddhism which emerged at 100CE probably had already found it ways northward to Tibet and China, leaving behind India to their slowly declining buddhist practices.

The invasion of the arabs in the 10th century and coperation with local hindus opposed to the Buddha's teaching sealed the demise of Buddhism in INdia. Unfortunate.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 19 2010, 03:50 PM
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 03:50 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 19 2010, 03:41 PM)
dreamer101 from Zen buddhism may not agree.

to him, if it works for you, then it works...no need bother about teacher, sutras and guides.. blink.gif
*
if he's happy its okay. different people different goals. I need to be more robust and my mind needs to be more advanced to help more people.

QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 03:41 PM)
OK, the statue showed us that Mahayana buddhism did reach Sri Lanka but how do you draw conclusion that there was a war between Theravada sect and Mahayana in Sri lanka from that statue alone?

Kindly provide links of the war, all I read is just civil war, and invasion from India which wiped out most buddhist monks at that time, that they needed to import the Monks from burma to reintroduce the THeravada lineage there.
*
here: http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2007/2/12560_space.html
and here: http://sigiriya.org/89.htm

but its not really too important. because it dosent benefit anyone. Also most sri lankans and theravardans would not acknowledge this anyway. The wars were more political in nature and not warlike.

This post has been edited by Joey-kun: Aug 19 2010, 03:52 PM
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 03:41 PM)

The invasion of the arabs in the 10th century and coperation with local hindus opposed to the Buddha's teaching sealed the demise of Buddhism in INdia. Unfortunate.
*
Buddhism in india died with the sacking of the world's first University: the Nalanda University. It took 6 months to burn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda

chezzball
post Aug 19 2010, 03:55 PM

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KuzumiTaiga
post Aug 19 2010, 04:00 PM

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Christian Buddhists are everywhere throughout the world. (Yes, i didn't mistype, CHRISTIAN BUDDHIST) lol

I'm Agnostic.
zstan
post Aug 19 2010, 04:02 PM

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QUOTE(KuzumiTaiga @ Aug 19 2010, 04:00 PM)
Christian Buddhists are everywhere throughout the world. (Yes, i didn't mistype, CHRISTIAN BUDDHIST) lol

I'm Agnostic.
*
yes.

some christians from phillipines practice buddhism as well.
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(Joey-kun @ Aug 19 2010, 03:50 PM)
if he's happy its okay. different people different goals. I need to be more robust and my mind needs to be more advanced to help more people.
here: http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2007/2/12560_space.html
and here:

but its not really too important. because it dosent benefit  anyone. Also most sri lankans and theravardans would not acknowledge this anyway. The wars were more political in nature and not warlike.
*
here: http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2007/2/12560_space.html

This is an opinion from a reader whom I suspect could be the Tamil who would write anything to discredit the Sri Lanka Sinhalese government which waged a war against the local Tamil Tigers. Possible for the local sinhalese to resist outsiders in the similar manner in their treatment to the Mahayana. Possible, but more ethnic driven than religious war in my opinion.


http://sigiriya.org/89.htm

This link shows us that Mahayana buddhism definitely reach Sri Lanka, but what about the history of war between Theravada and mahayana? was there a Theravada Army vs Mahayana army?

AFAIK, even the Mahayana concur that there has never been a war fought between the different buddhist sect, and this is the first i have heard.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 19 2010, 04:07 PM
SUSphantomkid
post Aug 19 2010, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(xecton @ Aug 19 2010, 03:14 PM)
Buddhism don't have God with a capital G. They might have deities.
If you believe in the supernatural stuffs, then some people might have the ability to see/talk with the deities.
But definately the purpose of Buddhism is not for you to chit-chat with the deities. Along the same line, communication with gods/deities is not the duty of monks.
Thus fail...
*
It's alright, I forgive those who fail to understand and couldn't/can't think further than what I said. smile.gif
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 04:06 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 04:04 PM)
here: http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2007/2/12560_space.html

This is an opinion from a reader, not a historical datasheet, but then history are written by the victors. Possible for the local Sinhalese to resist any outside attempt to convert them.

http://sigiriya.org/89.htm

This link shows us that Mahayana buddhism definitely reach Sri Lanka, but what about the history of war between Theravada and mahayana?
*
i cant find any links to prove it but why is it important again?

perhaps Robert Thurman would know. I'm not too interested because it dosent help much in actual practice. It's just general knowledge to prove that its not a religion problem, its a people problem.
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(Joey-kun @ Aug 19 2010, 04:06 PM)
i cant find any links to prove it but why is it important again?

perhaps Robert Thurman would know. I'm not too interested because it dosent help much in actual practice. It's just general knowledge to prove that its not a religion problem, its a people problem.
*
I think it's more to the Ethnicity problem where the local Sinhalese were Theravada and they may have tried to resist the outsiders who might have been hindu-mahayana. ANyway, looks like a ethnic war rather than a religious war.

But then, Sri Lanka is the cradle of Theravada buddhism> without them, Burma and thailand will not be a theravada country today. smile.gif
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 04:14 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 04:11 PM)
I think it's more to the Ethnicity problem where the local Sinhalese were Theravada and they may have tried to resist the outsiders who might have been hindu-mahayana. ANyway, looks like a ethnic war rather than a religious war.

But then, Sri Lanka is the cradle of Theravada buddhism> without them, Burma and thailand will not be a theravada country today. smile.gif
*
actually, they got their sources from Nalanda as well and have kept the practice alive. the whole 'religious' issue was more political of nature and was more about gaining the king's favor.

traces of this 'war' can be found in some tibetan buddhist literature: http://www.khandro.net/deities_female_paldenlhamo.htm

note that this isnt exactly accurate; its a myth. the actual origins of Palden Lhamo is far more simpler and less scandalous.
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(Joey-kun @ Aug 19 2010, 04:14 PM)
actually, they got their sources from Nalanda as well and have kept the practice alive. the whole 'religious' issue was more political of nature and was more about gaining the king's favor.

traces of this 'war' can be found in some tibetan buddhist literature: http://www.khandro.net/deities_female_paldenlhamo.htm

note that this isnt exactly accurate; its a myth. the actual origins of Palden Lhamo is far more simpler and less scandalous.
*
hard to verify. What exactly happened in INdia also at that time that caused the decline of buddhism was also not well understood. Some scholars said that the local Buddhism in India evolved slowly , incorporating more and more of Hinduism practices until the end there wasn't anything that is buddhist anymore. The Islamic invasion in the 10th century also destroyed many records in the buddhist universities, and sealed the end of buddhist era there.
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 04:30 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 04:29 PM)
hard to verify. What exactly happened in INdia also at that time that caused the decline of buddhism was also not well understood. Some scholars said that the local Buddhism in India evolved slowly , incorporating more and  more of Hinduism practices until the end there wasn't anything that is buddhist anymore. The Islamic invasion in the 10th century also destroyed many records in the buddhist universities, and sealed the end of buddhist era there.
*
it was actually the other way round. also during that time as recorded in some histories the abbots of Nalanda was declining and this contributed to the decline of Buddhism in india.
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(Joey-kun @ Aug 19 2010, 03:55 PM)
Buddhism in india died with the sacking of the world's first University: the Nalanda University. It took 6 months to burn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda
*
sad.... many monks were killed at that time. Surely the people who commit such acts will be in Avici already
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 04:34 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 04:31 PM)
sad.... many monks were killed at that time. Surely the people who commit such acts will be in Avici already
*
it was because the monks eventually became lax in their Dharma practice and lost focus. this kinda triggered the whole thing to happen. In any case, there must be an end to everything so this was more or less eventual.

oh well..at least it produced Nagajurna, Vimalakirti, Chandrakirti, Shantideva, Atisha, and so many other great scholars.
HangPC2
post Aug 19 2010, 04:38 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 19 2010, 04:02 PM)
yes.

some christians from phillipines practice buddhism as well.
*
Chinese Mestizo ?
xecton
post Aug 19 2010, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(phantomkid @ Aug 19 2010, 04:05 PM)
It's alright, I forgive those who fail to understand and couldn't/can't think further than what I said. smile.gif
*
Don't worry, I too forgive those who think it's morning when it's just the room's light being switched on.

However, we could still continue to discuss if you care to elaborate what you think I misunderstood you of.
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(Joey-kun @ Aug 19 2010, 04:34 PM)
it was because the monks eventually became lax in their Dharma practice and lost focus. this kinda triggered the whole thing to happen. In any case, there must be an end  to everything so this was more or less eventual.

oh well..at least it produced Nagajurna, Vimalakirti, Chandrakirti, Shantideva, Atisha, and so many other great scholars.
*
I read there were some political motive behind it. The local tribes opposed to Buddha's teaching also colluded with the invaders to put the final nail to the coffin.

But we should be glad, that buddhism was able to propagate beyond the shores of INdia (nortwards to china/tibet) and southward/eastwards to Sri Lanka/southeast asia.
zstan
post Aug 19 2010, 04:46 PM

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QUOTE(HangPC2 @ Aug 19 2010, 04:38 PM)
Chinese Mestizo ?
*
what dat?
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 04:49 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 04:45 PM)
I read there were some political motive behind it. The local tribes opposed to Buddha's teaching also colluded with the invaders to put the final nail to the coffin.

But we should be glad, that buddhism was able to propagate beyond the shores of INdia (nortwards to china/tibet) and southward/eastwards to Sri Lanka/southeast asia.
*
Thats more or less the important point. And that the practices and teachings were intact and well perserved.

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