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 V3. Swiftlet Keeping Discussion, Home of Fuciphagus Domesticus

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Ivan Ho
post May 27 2010, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(ChanK @ May 26 2010, 07:34 PM)
sad.gif  Sadly, thts true...

this forum is mainly read faithfully by few groups of ppls, to name a few :

1) ppls with failed/slowed farms that looking for solutions to revive their farms.
2) ppls that want to get into the industry and trying to find as much info as possible.
3) officers that are trying to look for lubang to find ways to corrupt n earn sinful money.
4) anti farms ppls that trying to pick on bone for reasons to get rid of us.

and the least...ppls that try to use this forum to spread info whether good or bad that will affect the industry.

so asking all these 1 to 4 groups of ppls to fight this war is hopeless (in fact it will affect them whether they are shop farms or standalone farm owners).
but salute u, hackwire, u not even a farmer yet u are voicing for the thousands of farmers that will be affected by the new ruling. notworthy.gif
as for whether they will let their childrens to name as dog, maybe they will compromise so that they only allowed others to name them dog during certain times or days?

Compromise is the key, right?
*
Hi chank, no offence.... i think people group 1 and group 2 at least is inside same boat compare to group 3 and group 4 peoples...

So i think it may be still better to have more people in this industry than less people in it. Another way to look at it, if more people in, the group 3 and group 4 people might start to consider common interest of A LOT people before they can take agreesive actions.

No offence, friend.
Cergau
post May 27 2010, 12:28 PM

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Wah, away for a day so much heat generated-ah! biggrin.gif

On a more serious note.
On the Wild Life Conservation Bill 2010.
I do not know for certain how far and wide the reassurances given by certain folks that things are 'Semua-OK'.
I did get the forwarded reassurances that walit is taken off the Bill, though most of you who do read for info know that walit is never specifically mentioned in the Bill but nevertheless under Perhilitan's opaque licensing regime through indirect means.
Today I have received confirmation that the Bill IS going in for 2nd reading WITHOUT any changes NOR has any outstanding request for changes despite the assurance.

So for those of you who care enuff for some self help.
(1)Do return to my earlier post on the suggested letter to MP and send to your MP else it will get passed as it is by the week after next.
(2)I am looking for volunteer/s for a short translation of 1 page
from English to Chinese and BM
Pls PM urgently.


For those of you who continue to think that there's no sense in folks wanting to sink the boat they are in with you....
Think again, harder this time....to milk the golden goose, you don't kill it, you merely threatened it.
Not all are supposed to die, most are just wounded sufficiently to recover to crawl back into your rightful place.
Else there is nothing to milk.

Personally, this is very much like the ISA
When it was debated in Parliament all kinds of assurances were given that it will not be abused and was meant for terrorist.
It was then.......but NOW??????

Minister or designate has absolute discretion on what and when and how on licensing.
You kena 1 offence, you cannot be granted another license for 5 years max frm the time the court case ends.
What if your case gets dragged on for 10 tens which is not unusual!
So you think you can figure a way out ...think again, from harvesting to export is CONTROLLED.
Submarine? have you read and understood the penalties?
After your sentence you cant even be granted a loan to run a burger stall.
They can even tell you when to harvest (dun believe me , go and read the Bill)
Oh yes, there is a quota to licenses.

Last Sunday's Minister's statements are not sufficient to tell you enough?
Please folks, each of these are demanding a pound of flesh from you NOT KILL YOU, which was never the intention.
What more you have to deal with all those expected 1GP details and the 2 legged semut-semut that visit your BH anytime!
Makes you wonder if the whole secret of success of swiflet keeping is about knowing how to comply and play with semut-semut.
The worst realisation is WHAT DOES ALL THESE CONTRIBUTE TO THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE INDUSTRY?
In my previous life, these are known as BUSY WORK....ALOT OF WORK CREATED...but when you pull back and relook at the whole thing....IT HAS NO BENEFIT AT ALL TO US even after paying the pound of flesh.

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 27 2010, 12:30 PM
West Wing
post May 27 2010, 12:36 PM

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Just passing by and must add,

Best if we can get all,
1. The Anti Swiftlets
2. Neighbour and friends
3. VIP, the YB and the YAB
4. NGO
5. The Press
6. The Authorities
7. Anybody and everybody

to be in the industry........ to share God's given wealth. Only thru this way, nobody will complaint and bird music sound so wonderful to the ears.....

So, go out and convince your YBs, YABs and all to invest in the industry. I did and have successfully converted some anti swiftlets ppls into the trade and now, they are 100% pro swiftlets as they saw the LIGHT.




Ivan Ho
post May 27 2010, 02:23 PM

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QUOTE(Cergau @ May 27 2010, 12:28 PM)
Wah, away for a day so much heat generated-ah!  biggrin.gif

On a more serious note.
On the Wild Life Conservation Bill 2010.
I do not know for certain how far and wide the reassurances given by certain folks that things are 'Semua-OK'.
I did get the forwarded reassurances that walit is taken off the Bill, though most of you who do read for info know that walit is never specifically mentioned in the Bill but nevertheless under Perhilitan's opaque licensing regime through indirect means.
Today I have received confirmation that the Bill IS going in for 2nd reading WITHOUT any changes NOR has any outstanding request for changes despite the assurance.

So for those of you who care enuff for some self help.
(1)Do return to my earlier post on the suggested letter to MP and send to your MP else it will get passed as it is by the week after next.
(2)I am looking for volunteer/s for a short translation of 1 page
from English to Chinese and BM
Pls PM urgently.


For those of you who continue to think that there's no sense in folks wanting to sink the boat they are in with you....
Think again, harder this time....to milk the golden goose, you don't kill it, you merely threatened it.
Not all are supposed to die, most are just wounded sufficiently to recover to crawl back into your rightful place.
Else there is nothing to milk.

Personally, this is very much like the ISA
When it was debated in Parliament all kinds of assurances were given that it will not be abused and was meant for terrorist.
It was then.......but NOW??????

Minister or designate has absolute discretion on what and when and how on licensing.
You kena 1 offence, you cannot be granted another license for 5 years max frm the time the court case ends.
What if your case gets dragged on for 10 tens which is not unusual!
So you think you can figure a way out ...think again, from harvesting to export is CONTROLLED.
Submarine? have you read and understood the penalties?
After your sentence you cant even be granted a loan to run a burger stall.
They can even tell you when to harvest (dun believe me , go and read the Bill)
Oh yes, there is a quota to licenses.

Last Sunday's Minister's statements are not sufficient to tell you enough?
Please folks, each of these are demanding a pound of flesh from you NOT KILL YOU, which was never the intention.
What more you have to deal with all those expected 1GP details and the 2 legged semut-semut that visit your BH anytime!
Makes you wonder if the whole secret of success of swiflet keeping is about knowing how to comply and play with semut-semut.
The worst realisation is WHAT DOES ALL THESE CONTRIBUTE TO THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE INDUSTRY?
In my previous life, these are known as BUSY WORK....ALOT OF WORK CREATED...but when you pull back and relook at the whole thing....IT HAS NO BENEFIT AT ALL TO US even after paying the pound of flesh.
*
Hi, i hope these website could help you - http://translate.google.com/#en|ms| or http://www.google.com/ig or http://www.stars21.com/translator/english_to_malay.html
Cergau
post May 27 2010, 04:57 PM

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QUOTE(Ivan Ho @ May 27 2010, 02:23 PM)
Thanks, but better translations are required for my purpose.
hackwire
post May 27 2010, 08:38 PM

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you same people out there are superb as ever. i always believe that a pen is alway sharper than a sword or nowadays its the keyboard .

I have said before any organization without a web address these days might as well tutup kedai. Whatever Cergau did might be too late already from what i see here and some people are selling their bird house fast also like knowing the monsoon or hurricane is coming.

as usual lah, businessman always find the solution to avoid these kind of problem by hit and run short term like fugitive. I hope the industry will not have thse sort of people which i think its good to have a good regulation to maintain good businessman in the bird nest business who are doing it for the love of nature and birds.

cergau, let me know if we need to documentary the event . best is to get people already in the association to bring your findings to the president and even the politicians.










Cergau
post May 27 2010, 10:29 PM

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QUOTE(hackwire @ May 27 2010, 08:38 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
avoid these kind of problem
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
best is to get people already in the association to bring your findings to the president and even the politicians.
*
Spot on, the choice before us, is between
1)prevention (dun let it happen at all) OR
2)mitigation (see how best and what one need to do to soften the blow).

I have touched base with the Fed association with the address provided here.
The correspondence went as far as asking me to introduce myself, which I did, since then it has been silent and my original questions remain unanswered.
"I wish to obtain the Fed Assoc feedback on the following:
1)Is the Fed association (in both the protem and formal capacity) a representative to the discussion with the authorities thus far?
2)What's the Fed Assoc assessment on the following matters in terms of
(o)benefits and
(o)negative points to BH operators
(a)1GP
(b)GAHP
©Wild Life Conservation Bill 2010
(d)new additional requirements from the Ministry of Health"


Anyway, I am still hoping for volunteers!

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 27 2010, 10:50 PM
hackwire
post May 27 2010, 11:45 PM

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i don't mind if they aske me who i am and where im from but i do want to know the same question like who i confront as well and where he lives too since he is so much concern of the identity. Hiding behind the name and association address only make them bold thinking that this privilege can let them do what ever they want.

that's y if really want to check the problem is to pass the letter with poslaju and registered mail sign off by the person .

The way things running in this country is snail mail when comes to responsibility. Just look at the longest person in MIC and you know what heck this fellow think he is doing there for so long over the decades and what can a person do more when his grandchildren also grow up and imagine what type of grandpa he is when his heart not even on the grandchild because there are so many things on his work desk. Most of the time is faking his love and smile to his grandchildren. So , do you want somebody like him who grins and nod all the time but no action?

This post has been edited by hackwire: May 27 2010, 11:50 PM
Ivan Ho
post May 28 2010, 02:44 AM

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QUOTE(Cergau @ May 27 2010, 04:57 PM)
Thanks, but better translations are required for my purpose.
*
Sorry, as my malay is also quit broken...anyway, i can do my best to translate it.
tuckfook
post May 28 2010, 06:58 PM

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Visited this establishment today.

http://www.aerobio4u.com/default1.htm

Very interesting setup. Is this the direction the Edible Birds' Industry should be heading for ?

Everyone should visit personally, if not only just to keep abreast of developments.




Cergau
post May 28 2010, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(tuckfook @ May 28 2010, 06:58 PM)
Visited this establishment today.

http://www.aerobio4u.com/default1.htm

Very interesting setup.  Is this the direction the Edible Birds' Industry should be heading for ?

Everyone should visit personally, if not only just to keep abreast of developments.
*
All beneficial forms of innovation should be encouraged.
Hopefully the current thinking to compel is reconsidered, else such displays will be a thing of the past.
hackwire
post May 29 2010, 12:26 PM

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QUOTE(tuckfook @ May 28 2010, 06:58 PM)
Visited this establishment today.

http://www.aerobio4u.com/default1.htm

Very interesting setup.  Is this the direction the Edible Birds' Industry should be heading for ?

Everyone should visit personally, if not only just to keep abreast of developments.
*
If this setup is green light by authorities in the urban area , I'm suppose the guidelines and handbook must be available for public to follow and not just cater to a certain group or foundation of the business . There should not be even any criterias to choose rich bs poor , big vs small, color of skin, etc


Added on May 29, 2010, 2:59 pmPRo Swiftlet Activist Vs Anti Swiftlet Activist ,

The showdown of this two groups will gonna happen soon. I wonder what have Pro Swiftlet Activist going to do when anti swiftlet is in force and getting more NGOS to support the removal of urban farmers.

The one cannot think so far will be making the loudest noise and supports. So all these pro swiftlet farmers , what is your goal and preparation to counter the problem?

Even the voice of one Wayne Rooney(west wing) is not enough in the Anti Swiftlet Georgetown Blog. Its like the literate urbanite vs a kampung mentality. One is soft and rational while the opposite use aggression and threat.
From that discussion, i can see the judge will even show support to the hooligans. trust me on this, if none of you start to rally behind in your association in the state, you guys will fall soon to the peasants.



This post has been edited by hackwire: May 29 2010, 03:03 PM
West Wing
post May 29 2010, 05:44 PM

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In all those I help in persuading to build BHs or helping in solving BHs problems, I always emphasis that no harm shall come to the birds and families that feed us…..it kind of hurting the hand that feed us. The birds shall be our guests and we shall treat them like ones.
I truly believe that you will be successful if you really care and concerned about the swiftlets by providing with the best of Sanctuary that you can provide ( It may not be a 5th.Star one) and they will reciprocate you with nests; their way of showing that they respect and love you and how it this can happened, maybe it’s enigma, my friends. The swiftlets came but they may one day be gone and who can imagine that the wild birds once used to living in cave suddenly decided to migrate to our house. Also, how a hummingbird evolved itself from a honey eating bird becoming to a nest producing swiftlets….. even if Charles Robert Darwin is living today, I still tell him that there is God. Maybe, evolution is created by God..
So, for those reader who are actively involve in Anti Swiftlets, beware that in the event that the swiftlets Sanctuaries (BirdHouses) be destroyed in town, you shall be responsible for millions of deaths and you shall be answerable to God.

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 29 2010, 06:23 PM
ChanK
post May 29 2010, 09:47 PM

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Rooftop farming booming in New York

NEW YORK, April 26 — Urban farming is a growth industry in New York city’s concrete jungle, and with little open land free agriculturalists and beekeepers have taken to the rooftops to pursue their passion.

Andrew Cote uses the emergency fire ladder to climb up to the roof of his East Village building, where he tends to 250 bee hives.

Cote, a professor of Japanese literature, doubles up as president of the New York City Beekeepers Association, and is happy that the city authorised beekeeping in mid-March after an 11-year ban.

“The city wants to plant one million trees, and the trees need to be pollinated,” Cote told AFP.

The ban forced beekeepers into hiding, fearing a US$2,000 (RM6,400) fine if caught. Now Cote believes the bees are vital to helping keep the city green.

“Our bees pollinate, and they clean the air. It is a way to connect with nature,” he said.

Bees also produce around 100 pounds of honey per hive per year, he said — honey that he sells at the city’s various farmer’s markets.

Cote said he has received several requests to instal rooftop beehives, and the demand is such that on Sunday he is scheduled to offer a course for aspiring apiculturalists.

On the other side of Manhattan, in the posh Upper East Side, Eli Zabar, owner of the upscale “Vinegar Factory” delicatessen, inspects the crops he is growing on the roof of the old factory bought in 1991.

“I began the green houses 15 years ago,” Zabar told AFP. “I grow heirloom tomatoes, lots of different kinds of lettuce, herbs, basil, rosemary, thyme, raspberries, figs, beets. We use the heat of the bakeries and pastries, we recycle the heat. With the use of the heat we have eliminated our (carbon) footprint.

“You harvest in the morning, you sell in the afternoon, you don’t refrigerate, it tastes better,” said Zabar. “We pick everything ripe and ready to eat. All our products here are organic.”

Depending on the hour of the time of day, Zabar says with a smile, “the green houses smell of bread, brownie or croissant.”

About half of the items Zabar sells in his deli comes from rooftop farms.

From Manhattan to Brooklyn, whether on rooftops, backyards or in any of the city’s 600 community gardens, urban farming is a growing phenomenon.

The movement is helped along by Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who seeks to turn the city into a sustainable development champion. Through “PlaNYC 2030,” a programme he launched on Earth Day 2007, people who instal “green roofs” can get a tax break.

At Randall’s Island, in New York’s East River, the city’s Parks and Recreation Department is currently testing 16 different types of vegetation that could be placed on the roofs of schools, hospitals or other public buildings.

“These are patches of succulent vegetation, like sedum, which protect the roofs, (and) isolate the buildings from the heat because the UV (ultra-violet) sun is not hitting,” said senior project manager John Robilotti.

The rooftop vegetation also helps maintain a steady temperature inside and captures storm water, which would otherwise run off into the street.

“The water that does come out is filtered and kept in tanks, and we use it to water when there is no rain,” Robilotti said.

The roofs “absorb carbon and create oxygen, so we take carbon from the carbon cycle.

“And they attract birds, butterflies, bees. We even saw a red-tailed hawk,” he said. — AFP-RelaxNews


http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/mobile/...ng-in-New-York/

smile.gif



hackwire
post May 30 2010, 12:19 AM

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QUOTE(West Wing @ May 29 2010, 05:44 PM)
In all those I help in persuading to build BHs or helping in solving BHs problems, I always emphasis that no harm shall come to the birds and families that feed us…..it kind of hurting the hand that feed us. The birds shall be our guests and we shall treat them like ones.
I truly believe that you will be successful if you really care and concerned about the swiftlets by providing with the best of Sanctuary that you can provide ( It may not be a 5th.Star one) and they will reciprocate you with nests; their way of showing that they respect and love you and how it this can happened, maybe it’s enigma, my friends. The swiftlets came but they may one day be gone and who can imagine that the wild birds once used to living in cave suddenly decided to migrate to our house. Also, how a hummingbird evolved itself from a honey eating bird becoming to a nest producing swiftlets….. even if  Charles Robert Darwin is living today, I still tell him that there is God. Maybe, evolution is created by God..
So, for those reader who are actively involve in  Anti Swiftlets, beware that in the event that the swiftlets Sanctuaries (BirdHouses)  be destroyed in town, you shall be responsible for millions of deaths and you shall be answerable to God.
*
correct, god will punish those with bad karma and reincarnate them as swiftlet and let them feel how it is to be force out from their home and food. let those who persevere to this anti swiftlet cause be judge in their next life if they even have one ...


Added on May 30, 2010, 12:28 amone thing i learn about is that we cannot get rid of pest in this universe and the pest also cannot get rid of human in this universe yet. in the end, these two also live together compromising each other . one can come out at night and eat all the dirty leftover or suck a little bit of your blood while u sleeping . while u have your shiny morning going after your career and eat the best food on the table.

but pest could one day get rid of human if they created a virus stronger than HIV

we just have to live with it, aren't we. so let's compromise with each other and u do your business at night and i do mine. case close, pro swiftlet will have to take the heat more because the pest can be very deadly if they develop a strong unknown virus... yucks...


This post has been edited by hackwire: May 30 2010, 12:31 AM
Bujuk
post May 30 2010, 08:55 AM

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QUOTE(Cergau @ May 27 2010, 04:57 PM)
Thanks, but better translations are required for my purpose.
*
Cergau pm/email me the actual doc. i can help out on the bahasa malaysia translation.

sorry, being away for sometime due to some other works commitment.

This post has been edited by Bujuk: May 30 2010, 08:56 AM
Cergau
post May 30 2010, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(Bujuk @ May 30 2010, 08:55 AM)
Cergau pm/email me the actual doc.  i can help out on the bahasa malaysia translation.

sorry,  being away for sometime due to some other works commitment.
*
Bujuk (aka Goldfish), pls check PM
West Wing
post May 30 2010, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(ChanK @ May 29 2010, 09:47 PM)
Rooftop farming booming in New York

NEW YORK, April 26 — Urban farming is a growth industry in New York city’s concrete jungle, and with little open land free agriculturalists and beekeepers have taken to the rooftops to pursue their passion.

Andrew Cote uses the emergency fire ladder to climb up to the roof of his East Village building, where he tends to 250 bee hives.

Cote, a professor of Japanese literature, doubles up as president of the New York City Beekeepers Association, and is happy that the city authorised beekeeping in mid-March after an 11-year ban.

“The city wants to plant one million trees, and the trees need to be pollinated,” Cote told AFP.

The ban forced beekeepers into hiding, fearing a US$2,000 (RM6,400) fine if caught. Now Cote believes the bees are vital to helping keep the city green.

“Our bees pollinate, and they clean the air. It is a way to connect with nature,” he said.

Bees also produce around 100 pounds of honey per hive per year, he said — honey that he sells at the city’s various farmer’s markets.

Cote said he has received several requests to instal rooftop beehives, and the demand is such that on Sunday he is scheduled to offer a course for aspiring apiculturalists.

On the other side of Manhattan, in the posh Upper East Side, Eli Zabar, owner of the upscale “Vinegar Factory” delicatessen, inspects the crops he is growing on the roof of the old factory bought in 1991.

“I began the green houses 15 years ago,” Zabar told AFP. “I grow heirloom tomatoes, lots of different kinds of lettuce, herbs, basil, rosemary, thyme, raspberries, figs, beets. We use the heat of the bakeries and pastries, we recycle the heat. With the use of the heat we have eliminated our (carbon) footprint.

“You harvest in the morning, you sell in the afternoon, you don’t refrigerate, it tastes better,” said Zabar. “We pick everything ripe and ready to eat. All our products here are organic.”

Depending on the hour of the time of day, Zabar says with a smile, “the green houses smell of bread, brownie or croissant.”

About half of the items Zabar sells in his deli comes from rooftop farms.

From Manhattan to Brooklyn, whether on rooftops, backyards or in any of the city’s 600 community gardens, urban farming is a growing phenomenon.

The movement is helped along by Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who seeks to turn the city into a sustainable development champion. Through “PlaNYC 2030,” a programme he launched on Earth Day 2007, people who instal “green roofs” can get a tax break.

At Randall’s Island, in New York’s East River, the city’s Parks and Recreation Department is currently testing 16 different types of vegetation that could be placed on the roofs of schools, hospitals or other public buildings.

“These are patches of succulent vegetation, like sedum, which protect the roofs, (and) isolate the buildings from the heat because the UV (ultra-violet) sun is not hitting,” said senior project manager John Robilotti.

The rooftop vegetation also helps maintain a steady temperature inside and captures storm water, which would otherwise run off into the street.

“The water that does come out is filtered and kept in tanks, and we use it to water when there is no rain,” Robilotti said.

The roofs “absorb carbon and create oxygen, so we take carbon from the carbon cycle.

“And they attract birds, butterflies, bees. We even saw a red-tailed hawk,” he said. — AFP-RelaxNews
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/mobile/...ng-in-New-York/

smile.gif
*
Beautiful, well said...... I did mentioned about roof top garden for BH before. .it's what we need for our urban BHs as we have natural organic fertilizer for our roof top garden and this way, we recycle all waste from our urban BH plus creating fresh air to the already polluted urban air.

Keeping the temperature and humidity @ BH well maintained and also saving money and maintaining good health; Fruits and greens from the roof top's harvest can be given to our BH's neighbours as Good Will. With all urban BHs involved n the project, our local government need not encourage public or use public fund to plant greens as we have all the greens @ roof tops of every BHs in town. Go green, I would say by bringing the green to town........bringing nature to our town.

Someone here may want to venture into this roof top design and construction buz cos there are alot of money to make. I may try to submit my BH roof top garden to the majlis for approval if anyone here with experiencing or idea for such project can help in the design and method of doing a roof garden. Just thinking of the birds, butterflies and the bees bring sweet and happy imagination/feelings but certainly not the red-tail hawk or any of such predators cos we have more than enough of human predators already.

Good job, Chank, I would say....
Cergau
post May 30 2010, 01:13 PM

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QUOTE(West Wing @ May 30 2010, 12:01 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
Guys, a note of caution.
the whole structure require additional strengthening cos, the soil, stones & water plus all the multi layers of special material for special drainage will exert a lot of stress on the structure. (read an article in National Geographic many moons ago) The special material for both drainage and leak proofing is not cheap, unless you plan skip that requirement and hand your NPs back to nature. But don't let my caution stop anyone if you have the building built to proper specs.

btw swiftlets and all the nice insects you imagine coming to your rooftop dont mix.
you tend to find more over weight swiftlets and less insects he he
"The walit in a farm like DQ provides a useful function in keeping the insect population low. We first noticed the walit when we were scratching our heads as to why our honey bees just keep on disappearing. Then we put two and two together. "
http://dqfarm.blogspirit.com/tag/swiftlet%20farming
Cergau
post May 30 2010, 04:34 PM

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THANK YOU FOR VISITING, DO COME BACK

Watch this forum for an announcement in a day or two.


This post has been edited by Cergau: May 30 2010, 04:34 PM

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